Does 7-2 infantry divisions work for most majors now?

[ltccone]

For majors like Germany/USSR/US, etc. are 7-2 divisions worth it anymore? I don't use infantry to attack (except to clear pockets), so I use 10-0 divisions with support companies.

I would rather use the tungsten for tanks and SPA.

I can see where they would be useful for some majors, like Italy, Japan, or China they would be useful, but it seems like 14-4 would even be more so.

 

[Bunnytob]

7/2 is better at defending unless the enemy has more attack than the 7/2 has defence - at which point counterattacks with tanks are probably the best way to go...

Then again if you're starved for tungsten, go for it I guess.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

7/2 isn't worth, especially not vs AI. 10-0 inflicts casualties slower when defending but does its job, and leaves you more IC and research slots on things with magnified benefits.

 

[ltccone]

7/2 is better at defending unless the enemy has more attack than the 7/2 has defence - at which point counterattacks with tanks are probably the best way to go...

Then again if you're starved for tungsten, go for it I guess.

Germany shouldn't be 'starved' for tungsten, especially if she has access to Portugal's. It is a question of the best use for the tungsten.

 

[Baron Jukaga]

It's a waste of IC. The soft attack per gun is just terrible for line art compared to support art. I don't bother at all with 7/2 anymore, I'd rather use those factories for tanks and fighters.

 

[Secret Master]

As far as I'm concerned, in vanilla, 40 width wins.

We can debate the relative value of how much ART should be in that infantry division, but assuming you have forces to counter attack when the ORG of 40 width divisions gives out, you should be fine.

Personally, I prefer 1 ART per 10 width in infantry divisions, but I prefer all of my 40 widths have plenty of firepower to blast enemies out of the way.

 

[noobermenschen]

For majors like Germany/USSR/US, etc. are 7-2 divisions worth it anymore? I don't use infantry to attack (except to clear pockets), so I use 10-0 divisions with support companies.

I would rather use the tungsten for tanks and SPA.

I can see where they would be useful for some majors, like Italy, Japan, or China they would be useful, but it seems like 14-4 would even be more so.

If you play Japan your puppets will develop 10 x INF +ART ENG divisions and give them to you as expeditionary units, perhaps five or so a year. This lets you put your manpower into proper 40 width divisions. Playing USA you have all the factories and you have Ike, why bother?

Also as either nation no one should get past your navies to any coast you plan to own. I've never played Germany but have witnessed the Allies hurling themselves upon European beaches nonstop so 20 width Infantry might be needed there.

In my experience I found at least 200 front line divisions are normally needed to make a satisfying dent in Eurasia, so will only go with 20 width when playing a country with less than 20 million population, and then will start converting them to space infantry once they gain some experience and I get some tanks in production.

 

[ltccone]

As far as I'm concerned, in vanilla, 40 width wins.

We can debate the relative value of how much ART should be in that infantry division, but assuming you have forces to counter attack when the ORG of 40 width divisions gives out, you should be fine.

Personally, I prefer 1 ART per 10 width in infantry divisions, but I prefer all of my 40 widths have plenty of firepower to blast enemies out of the way.

You can't have an entire army of 40w infantry unts, except for maybe China and the USSR.. I don't see the purpose of them except to attack, and Germany can't afford to have all of their infantry divisions 14-4s.

 

[Secret Master]

You can't have an entire army of 40w infantry unts, except for maybe China and the USSR.. I don't see the purpose of them except to attack, and Germany can't afford to have all of their infantry divisions 14-4s.

Sure you can. I've done it before.

Obviously, I don't have 40w sitting in France doing nothing. The garrison forces in France and the Balkans use other termplates.

 

[ltccone]

Sure you can. I've done it before.

Obviously, I don't have 40w sitting in France doing nothing. The garrison forces in France and the Balkans use other termplates.

I've tried that before as Germany. I just didn't have enough units to cover the front effectively.

 

[Secret Master]

I've tried that before as Germany. I just didn't have enough units to cover the front effectively.

In vanilla, I generally shoot for at least 96 40w infantry divisions facing the Soviets by June of 1941. This doesn't count the panzer corps or planes.

Some of the divisions have crappy tier 1 ART or tier 1 AT guns, and they certainly don't have a lot of tier 2 infantry kits (if any at all).

 

[Cavalry]

Better not go from one extreme to another.
Early game 7-2 can killing enemy when you sleep, and hold the line, use the defensive bonus; 10-0 will have trouble hold the line, it only scratch the attackers. And you can use infantry to assist in attack too, especially in rough terrain.

If you don't attack with infantry You can reduce artillery in infantry division, but not necessary to zero. 8-1 is ok even it is 19w, but I prefer 40w to reduce casualties.
Late game with mod Expert AI and bonus for AI, they often field hundred of 15-5 tank with armor as high as 123! So I need to use AT and TD in my infantry, and SPAA too, no room left for line Arty!

 

[qer]

I see infantry mainly as a defensive unit, and while it can attack and support armored forces in a pinch, it's main function should be to hold the line. I prefer much more 20 W divisions with engineers for this purpose than 7-2. They are cheaper and work just as well as 7-2 when defending. Also against tank you need to put AT or simply drowned then with bodies if you are USSR, in which case you need to start getting more creative with the division designer

As for 40 W Inf, it is better if you can field enough of then, but getting those encircled mean higher losses. In vanilla it doesn't really matter if playing Sp , but it's true that they are better at fighting

 

[Bunnytob]

They are cheaper and work just as well as 7-2 when defending.

If you can get parity, that is.

 

[qer]

If you can get parity, that is.

You don't need parity in defending against Inf if yours is properly entrenched...

 

[pdstanbridge]

I try to use 7x2 for attacking purposes, and perhaps build an army purely for this use. The other divisions are generally defensive. Garrison are smaller cavalry units with MP and high suppression. This tends to work quite well.

 

[Cavalry]

Most of players will not say 7/2 is useless, they say they can save IC on something else and still can hold, probably with assistance from tank or CAS.
I hear one say 7/2 will be broken faster than 10-0 when be attacked by tanks, because of lower org.

My experience on China vs Japan, pure infantry often cannot hold until I have artillery. They don't kill Jap so the Jap just repeat spamming attack until they broke!

I am willing to pay more to get some division that can hold in critical positions like Beijing (not necessary 7-2, it is quite expensive for China, I get 8-0 with support art for China first, then a 40w 12-5 or 6 art to bolster key defense, and later I can use that 12-5 for breakthrough. Artillery is always the cheapest to defense or attack. Even Engineers is a luxury for China in term of aluminium and tech slot!

 

[Alspego]

In general, you want to use 40w divisions. However, in the early stages (until 1939-1940) you might not have enough army xp, equipment etc. to produce "a critical mass" of infantry divisions. In many cases, having 10 20w divisions is better that having 5 40w. The situation can be different if you compare 400 20w with 200 40w divisions.

The meta 40w Inf division are based on 14/4 (14 INF + 4 ART) templates. I would argue that the relative strength of a 14/4 division compared to 20/0 division is much higher than the relative strength of a 7/2 division compared to 10/0. The reason is, that 14/4 divisions have a excess of defense. Because of that, adding more INF does not provide additional value. This is less clear for 20w divisions. 7/2 and 10/0 divisions will have a hard time getting a defense which is higher than the soft attack of 40w (tank) divisions.

An advantage of 7/2 divisions: You can combine 2 of them to 14/4 divisions at any time without any changes in your production lines and any loses in experience. If you are using 10/0 divisions, you might need to start producing ART latter on. It takes some time for your industries to reach full efficiency (During this time, you lose around 6 months worth of produced equipment).

 

[Alex_brunius]

I've tried that before as Germany. I just didn't have enough units to cover the front effectively.

I also tried that as Germany, I have no problems to get enough units to cover the front effectively.

 

[bERt0r]

The reason why pure infantry small width is superior to 40 width high artillery divisions is CAS support. If you have an infinite number of CAS in the air, the only thing limiting your CAS damage is the ability of your land units to stay in combat. And that is done best by pure infantry. Obviously you don't have infinite numbers of CAS but often you have more CAS than the front width of all battles can allow to participate in the fight.