Cyclops disappoints

[LongRange]

so I was noodling with the new chassis last night and have decided the Cyclops doesn’t bring much more than phase advancement to the table. You can’t put much in the way of weapons and still have enough armor protection to survive a high tonnage engagement. Probably functions better as a 2x LRM20 missle carrier or a PPC sniper, but at firepower levels of a heavy class unit.

I was hoping for increased sensor range but now everyone acts one phase early. Probably get reserved back to Phase one anyway, so usefulness may be limited.

Just my $0.02...

 

[Kereminde]

Sort of like in tabletop, according to many people - it's neat in appearance, but probably not what you want without more tinkering than it's worth

 

[LongRange]

I loved the Cyclops in Mechcommander. Huge sensor radius let you see the opfor long before they saw you and prepare a proper greeting.

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

I believe we also have to keep expectations a bit in check. We don't want every additional mech added to contribute to power creep. It obsoletes previously added mechs (especially for multiplayer). I just don't think we want every new mech to be the must use example of it's class.

That being said though...

According to another thread on the forum, the Cyclops Z's Battle Computer does sound pretty amazing...
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...le-computer-is-amazing.1131962/#post-24894137

This is certainly a new automatic-pick for me in lance building from now on, and it seems to be valid in skirmish matches too:

This Battle Computer appears to be unique to Cyclops CP-10-Z (like the Hatchet is to the Hatchetman). The effect applies to all members of your lance as long as you have this 'Mech with this component intact. It seems that it can't be removed to be put on a different 'Mech, not even the other variant of Cyclops.

Before anyone asks, I checked and it does not stack if you have 2 of these. However, since it *does* stack with Master Tactician; this combination allows some significant bending of the normal initiative rules which can improve your ability to reserve and double-attack or hit-and-run before the opponent can respond:
1: You can boost a Medium, such as Hatchetman, to go in stage 5 (previously only attainable with Lights) instead of the usual stage 3
2: You can boost an Assault, such as Cyclops, to go in stage 3 with the Mediums instead of the usual stage 1

It does sound pretty powerful, so I don't know if it sort of messes with my 'no power creep' statement. I am thinking that the hardpoint/free tonnage restrictions is acting as a counter to the benefits of the Battle Computer. ​

 

[stjobe]

It is supposed to be a headquarters unit (hence the Battle Computer):

"The Cyclops began production in 2710 as a heavy assault BattleMech and headquarters unit for Star League Defense Force field commanders. A decent mix of weapons provided the Cyclops with both long- and short-range firepower and a sizable engine to keep up with mobile operations. The most important feature of the 'Mech though was its advanced electronics, especially the Tacticon B-2000 Battle Computer, which allows the pilot to effectively command up to brigade-sized units. Other aspects of the 'Mech are less than stellar however. The diverse array of weapons means the 'Mech does suffer somewhat from ammunition issues while meager armoring provides less protection than that found on similar machines, though it is enough to stave off attackers until reinforcements arrive. In particular the armoring on the head section, while as heavily protected as allowed by the internal structure, leaves the pilot and the sophisticated command and control equipment more vulnerable than usual. When operating as the command vehicle at regimental and higher echelons with an ample support apparatus and guarded by a headquarters lance, these deficiencies are far less noticeable and the Cyclops could be kept in reserve until employed to turn the tide of battle or exploit a weakness."
- sarna.net entry for the Cyclops

 

[Kereminde]

It is supposed to be a headquarters unit (hence the Battle Computer):

Which it definitely can be for my next campaign stab at taking Coromodir. (This would have really come in handy.)

Or defending Smithon.

The good news is, I can probably trade that AC/20 for the [Redacted] off that one 'Mech and really have a back-line command unit . . . right?

 

[Shark7]

The battle computer seems under-whelming to me. So it moves your units down 1 initiative phase. Unfortunately, I usually don't want to go first, preferring to see what the enemy does so I can react to it.

 

[stjobe]

The battle computer seems under-whelming to me. So it moves your units down 1 initiative phase. Unfortunately, I usually don't want to go first, preferring to see what the enemy does so I can react to it.

Ah, but on the turn after that, you do want to go first, to double-tap any enemy foolish enough to expose themselves to your might!

 

[Kereminde]

The battle computer seems under-whelming to me. So it moves your units down 1 initiative phase. Unfortunately, I usually don't want to go first, preferring to see what the enemy does so I can react to it.

Well now it'll give the *option*, which I prefer to have rather than not having it

. . . again, I'm getting one before Smithon. I don't care how long it takes. (And shut up Kamea, you don't get a say in this.)

 

[scJazz]

The battle computer seems under-whelming to me. So it moves your units down 1 initiative phase. Unfortunately, I usually don't want to go first, preferring to see what the enemy does so I can react to it.

You are so clearly under-rating +1 Initiative.

Turn 1 ) Reserve down Enemy Moves
Turn 1a ) Blast Enemy
Turn 2 ) Blast enemy again with your buffed Initiative

 

[HonorKnight]

The Cyclops CP-10-Z is amazing for its unique battle computer, not available to any other chassis nor even available to the Cyclops CP-10-Q variant.

The Cyclops CP-10-Q is amazing too because of its whopping 7 missile hardpoints (the next highest is only 5 in the Kintaro, and no more than 4 in any other 'Mech). Load this thing up with SRM6s and perhaps a machine gun, and it will sandpaper and headshot and crit like nobody's business, along with some decent stability damage. Very strong called shots too, especially with high tactics pilots.

Both variants provide excellent utility in the right circumstances. They're not for everyone and not for every combat situation, but they unquestionably both bring something truly unique to the table.

 

[Shake Appeal]

+1 Initiative to all units, stacking with MT, actually sounds overpowered to me, although I haven't had a chance to see once in action yet.

 

[Icewraith]

Well now it'll give the *option*, which I prefer to have rather than not having it

. . . again, I'm getting one before Smithon. I don't care how long it takes. (And shut up Kamea, you don't get a say in this.)

Why do you fear Smithon? It’s basically “do you have at least two decent multishot pilots”.

And ideally two solid heavies, one with LRMs, plus the good Highlander.

 

[Kereminde]

Because timing is everything there.

 

[Edmon]

+1 Initiative to your lance is very, very powerful as anyone who has watched me play will know. It makes double-turns that much easier to pull off and that in itself is one of the games most powerful strategies.

The 'mech could have a light 'mechs level of firepower and would still be a strong pick in a lance of assaults.

 

[Icewraith]

Because timing is everything there.

I guess, but it’s mainly “reserve till phase 1 so your allied units can chip evasion off the initial light mech swarm” and
“immediately move your fast, jumpy medium towards the back of the first platform to intercept the first set of flankers”.

Oh, and “get your LRM boat into position to spot the second set of flankers”.

The most dangerous opponent in that mission is the firestarter.

Are there only the two missile hardpoints? If so, one being in the CT is rough. Gotta have that +2/+3 hit defense gyro, and I was hoping to use it as an LRM vehicle.

 

[scJazz]

I am seriously befuddled.
On Discord... I'm reading person repeatedly... Cyclops suxzorz.
+1 Init to all Lance!?!?
I have to start asking myself... do "good boys" know how to play this game?
Cause the advantage is stunningly obvious.
If it isn't that obvious then... [Mod edit: Please stay respectful]

 

[Kereminde]

The thing is paper armored for an Assault and armed like a light Heavy. On paper, and in tabletop, it does indeed suck.

Using it with an endgame Lance? This is so unfair.

 

[Shark7]

The thing is paper armored for an Assault and armed like a light Heavy. On paper, and in tabletop, it does indeed suck.

Using it with an endgame Lance? This is so unfair.

You echo my thoughts on this matter. What good is +1 initiative in an endgame mission when the Cyclops basically can't play at all? It is a paper tiger, it looks ferocious, but doesn't put up much of a fight.

And the worst part is, the stock design combines light armor with the shortest range auto-cannon available. The thing may never get to fire the AC20, it gets shredded before it gets into range.

I never used a Cyclops in TT cause there were always better choices out there. I'll take a Highlander please.

 

[Kereminde]

You echo my thoughts on this matter. What good is +1 initiative in an endgame mission when the Cyclops basically can't play at all? It is a paper tiger, it looks ferocious, but doesn't put up much of a fight.

And the worst part is, the stock design combines light armor with the shortest range auto-cannon available. The thing may never get to fire the AC20, it gets shredded before it gets into range.

I never used a Cyclops in TT cause there were always better choices out there. I'll take a Highlander please.

Oh no you misunderstand me. It's unfair for *them* . . . I tinkered with it immediately to put in an AC/10 and Large Laser, left in the LRM 10 and yanked the rest, armored the difference, and it sits in the back and lets Dekker and Glitch handle things. If I wasn't using that one Spoiler Weapon too much in a jumper, I'd put it in the CP-10-Q and laugh all day long.