Cities: Skylines (Steam) - Cities: Skylines (Steam) - Hearses won't spawn

[Maxloader]

Description
Cities: Skylines (Steam) - Hearses won't spawn

What is your game version?
1.13.0-f7

What expansions do you have installed?

Natural Disasters,
Mass Transit

What mods are you using?
None

Please explain your issue is in as much detail as possible.
I googled and searched these forums for the problem I am currently experiencing but I didn't find any solution.
Hearses do not spawn when making new crematories or graveyards, they jump from 0 to 1 all the time.

As I still want to receive achievements for my savegame I preferably don't want to use mods. But if one is able to fix it i am willing to use it as a last resort.

The things i ruled out / tried:
- I checked my map with the broken nodes mod, no broken nodes
- I started it with the --noWorkshop parameter
- I started it with the --disableMods parameter
- The crematories are not separated, they even do not work when placing them right next to a working one.
- I did not hit the max vehicle limit, i checked this with the 'Watch It!' mod

I have uploaded my save called 'Westy' to my steam workshop.

Can you replicate the issue? If yes, please explain how you did it.
Yes, just make a new crematorium or graveyard anywhere.

Attachments

 

[Avanya]

I don't have a chance to look at your save atm, but one thing I know can cause this is if your city is split up. It's very important that every building in your city can be reached by road from anywhere else. Service buildings do not consider distance, so if you have an area split from the rest of the city, it doesn't matter that it has its own crematory/graveyard. They will try to respond to buildings all over the city, and if they can't reach them, the vehicle will despawn right away.

 

[ristosal]

@Avanya Max had a thread also on the Steam forums about this, and it turned out the city's one way systems were causing the problem, even though they technically should've been able to access all buildings. There is a bug regarding six-lane one way roads that I have come across once before, in that case no one was moving in because of roads being laid out in a certain way.

 

[Maxloader]

I don't have a chance to look at your save atm, but one thing I know can cause this is if your city is split up. It's very important that every building in your city can be reached by road from anywhere else. Service buildings do not consider distance, so if you have an area split from the rest of the city, it doesn't matter that it has its own crematory/graveyard. They will try to respond to buildings all over the city, and if they can't reach them, the vehicle will despawn right away.

Oh that's most definately not the case because even putting it down next to a functioning one doesn't make it work.

And like ristosal says, i indeed have a steam forum post up about the same thing and someone tried my save file and removed the 6 lane one ways and that fixed it.
But my city works wonders using one ways so it's pretty annoying if this is indeed a bug.

 

[ristosal]

But my city works wonders using one ways so it's pretty annoying if this is indeed a bug.

You could maybe get around this by connecting less four lane roads into six lane one ways, which I recall being the problem in the previous case. Two lane one way systems around them will do the job just fine.

 

[Perraine]

From what I gather this problem, which also sometimes affects other city service vehicles such as Fire Trucks and Garbage Trucks, "may" be due to the fact that when the game "makes a call" for a service vehicle, 1 is selected from the available pool of valid vehicles that can reach that destination.

If that vehicle, for some reason, such as you deleting a road or changing some other traffic system, can't figure out the new route, the game gets stuck in a kind of feedback loop, and will not spawn any further vehicles until that 1 stuck vehicle has "completed" it's task.

You could try using the Advanced Vehicle Options mod to delete all previously spawned versions of that vehicle or alternatively you could try replacing (one by one) the offending building type to see if that resolves the pathfinding AI error.

 

[Maxloader]

Replacing the roads with two way versions and bulldozing all death reporting buildings (while pauzed) helped. They started dispatching right after this. But this is a workaround... not a solution to the original problem. So it's still a bug.

 

[Maxloader]

Ah too bad, this works for a short while and then returns after like 10 minutes.

 

[Avanya]

From what I gather this problem, which also sometimes affects other city service vehicles such as Fire Trucks and Garbage Trucks, "may" be due to the fact that when the game "makes a call" for a service vehicle, 1 is selected from the available pool of valid vehicles that can reach that destination.

If that vehicle, for some reason, such as you deleting a road or changing some other traffic system, can't figure out the new route, the game gets stuck in a kind of feedback loop, and will not spawn any further vehicles until that 1 stuck vehicle has "completed" it's task.

You could try using the Advanced Vehicle Options mod to delete all previously spawned versions of that vehicle or alternatively you could try replacing (one by one) the offending building type to see if that resolves the pathfinding AI error.

This is correct. The game indeed sends out a request for a service vehicle from a building that needs something (is on fire, has a dead body or garbage that needs picked up, sick person etc), and all appropriate service buildings can respond. I'm not sure how the game picks which one responds, but it does NOT pick the closest one - or even the same one for the same building. Seeing a service vehicle appear and then disappear right away is the game trying to respond to the request, then not being able to calculate a route to the destination and despawning the vehicle.

I believe the request resets or makes a call again, which means the game picks a building to respond. Sometimes you get lucky and it's another building responding, which CAN send a vehicle, and things work again. But sometimes it's the same one(s) trying to respond and failing.

@Maxloader can you attach your save file? Since it happens consistently in your city (and it sounds like a lot), your save can help narrow down what's going on. You can use the "Upload a File" button or share a link to the workshop page if you have uploaded it to the workshop.

 

[Maxloader]

Here is a link to the save file on the workshop: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2049226969

 

[Avanya]

Interestingly your save has the same issue as in this thread, which I haven't been able to reproduce. At least until loading your save, because then I could see it. Not sure why it only triggers with some intersections, but something seems definitely weird and is messing with the path finding. I've tagged CO in the other thread and I'll drop a link in it to your post here. Since your save was made without mods, that makes it really handy as a way to look into the issue.

 

[ristosal]

Based on previous findings that bug is unrelated to this case, as services are able to operate regardless. It's just the service coverage indicator abruptly terminating at certain road types and falsely affecting stuff like fire hazard shown by the info view.

 

[co_emmi]

Here is a link to the save file on the workshop: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2049226969

Hi! I tried out this save and with quick testing all the crematoriums are working. It looked like you have over capacity with the service buildings which leads some of them with 0/7 vehicles (deathcare info view is on maximum green). I closed down some of the buildings and the ones that previously had 0/7 vehicles started to work so they were able to find the path. And as @Avanya pointed out, the hearses don't go to the closest one, but they go to the one that first called for them so by following a vehicle you'll see they sometimes go across the whole city.

 

[ristosal]

@co_emmi Crematoriums with 0/7 hearses in use went to 1 and immediately back to 0, which means they cannot find a path to a building they're trying to service. It doesn't matter if there's unnecessarily many buildings or not, it would eventually become a problem because there's a bug in a certain road infrastructure combination. I tested the same save file, and there even was a case where a police car failed to spawn despite of the route being logically accessible.

My hypothesis is that a six lane one way road terminus into a four lane road at a 90 degree angle triggers it. Change these terminus spots into two way roads and they should be able to find a route and spawn again.

 

[Maxloader]

Hi! I tried out this save and with quick testing all the crematoriums are working. It looked like you have over capacity with the service buildings which leads some of them with 0/7 vehicles (deathcare info view is on maximum green). I closed down some of the buildings and the ones that previously had 0/7 vehicles started to work so they were able to find the path. And as @Avanya pointed out, the hearses don't go to the closest one, but they go to the one that first called for them so by following a vehicle you'll see they sometimes go across the whole city.

The way I try to play it is to give every district it's own set of service facilities, making sure the highlighted area is green. This makes me think that that is the optimal coverage and that they DO go to the closest calls. Calling another service station would be majorly inefficient, why would it be programmed this way?
Anyway, I will try to remove all graveyards and crematories to check if placing 1 new one makes it active and be used 7/7.

 

[co_emmi]

@co_emmi Crematoriums with 0/7 hearses in use went to 1 and immediately back to 0, which means they cannot find a path to a building they're trying to service. It doesn't matter if there's unnecessarily many buildings or not, it would eventually become a problem because there's a bug in a certain road infrastructure combination. I tested the same save file, and there even was a case where a police car failed to spawn despite of the route being logically accessible.

My hypothesis is that a six lane one way road terminus into a four lane road at a 90 degree angle triggers it. Change these terminus spots into two way roads and they should be able to find a route and spawn again.

Do you mean this area and intersection? The coverage color does cut to the road, but the hearses look to operate normally from there and get to the highway.

 

[Maxloader]

Do you mean this area and intersection? The coverage color does cut to the road, but the hearses look to operate normally from there and get to the highway.

View attachment 564312

wow that's really weird... those are not working at all for me, and there is one on the other side of masstropolis too that doesn't work.
BTW, the garbage trucks are working just fine using the same road, that's why i don't get it.

 

[ristosal]

@co_emmi There were more crematoriums around the city that were in the same situation, not just those in particular. The coverage cut-off is irrelevant because like you said, it doesn't prevent hearses (or any service) from functioning as long as they can pathfind. Moving them somewhere else wouldn't help either. Eventually even some of the crematoriums that had more vehicles in use started having the same spawning issue, such as those placed near the train station.

 

[Avanya]

Do you mean this area and intersection? The coverage color does cut to the road, but the hearses look to operate normally from there and get to the highway.

View attachment 564312

Huh, that is so weird. Those 3 where flickering between 1/7 and 0/7 for me.

Seems to me like there are some buildings, that aren't reachable, which is causing pathfinding issues. That would explain why only some buildings are having a problem when loading up the city, and why we don't see the same buildings have issues. I never really use one way roads much, so I can't really tell if it's a bug or if it's a flaw in the one way system causing it. Might be worth trying to switch to two way roads in a lot of places to see if that solves it (though ofc that will probably mess with your traffic flow).

 

[co_emmi]

Huh, that is so weird. Those 3 where flickering between 1/7 and 0/7 for me.

Seems to me like there are some buildings, that aren't reachable, which is causing pathfinding issues. That would explain why only some buildings are having a problem when loading up the city, and why we don't see the same buildings have issues. I never really use one way roads much, so I can't really tell if it's a bug or if it's a flaw in the one way system causing it. Might be worth trying to switch to two way roads in a lot of places to see if that solves it (though ofc that will probably mess with your traffic flow).

I tested if they are able to work by closing down other crematoriums and the city started to use those three with full vehicle counts. If the service vehicle is not able to reach its destination due to traffic jam, deleted road or similar case, it will despawn and that is expected behavior because otherwise the city could end up having vehicles blocking the roads without knowing where to go. The vehicles decide their route before leaving the building and they are unable to recalculate the route mid-way.

From the color of the buildings you can see that the blue building are covered by the garbage city service even if the road is not showing green.

If some buildings don't seem to get any service coverage, check out if they are blocked by some one-way streets or equivalent.