Mass Mobilization the underrated Doctrine.

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marcelo r. r.

Field Marshal
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Mar 26, 2019
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I started a iron man with Portugal to make some achievments and experiment new things, this time, because of spy-related achievs, i have to pick "proudly alone path" to get the spy and intel buff.

Poor of manpower i have a idea to use large infantry to compensate, at same time i focused on stacking buffs for manpower and wide fronts, the result is that I can practically use the technique of "rotating troops" without micro and even without major manpower losses.

It can break any terrain and combat situation: mountains and undersupplied.

The best part is the division experience, as much as I tried optimized runs with Mobile Warfare or Superior Firepower i could never accumulate troop experience.

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The best part is the division experience, as much as I tried optimized runs with Mobile Warfare or Superior Firepower i could never accumulate troop experience.
What sort of templates were you using with those other doctrines, the same 14/4? A big part of that question i guess is the hospitals.
Are you using the +10% HP spirit? You have mass charge preferred, so you probably got victory or death rather than operational reserves.
 
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What sort of templates were you using with those other doctrines, the same 14/4? A big part of that question i guess is the hospitals.
Are you using the +10% HP spirit? You have mass charge preferred, so you probably got victory or death rather than operational reserves.
the 9/1, but i think, with massive ORG from MW or the massive soft power from SP i was to be okay without hospitals no? The SP is the most weirder, because in SP builds i always was green..

Thanks for the heads up about Victory or Death!!
 
Mass Assault -Right is the best for any country other than majors, And do majors don't need extra manpower? We probably play too easy setting!

Also this is probably the best for AI and the use of battleplan. The only complain is this have special things that cannot be used if we switch to other doctrines.
 
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Idk what to say but one thing is certain: You need tanks to do breakthroughts, doing an Super Infantry with 4 arty doesnt help because of artillery waste

Nonetheless Good Luck with your discovery!!!!
 
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Idk what to say but one thing is certain: You need tanks to do breakthroughts, doing an Super Infantry with 4 arty doesnt help because of artillery waste

Nonetheless Good Luck with your discovery!!!!
then just add the tank to the infantry. Can be high attack, just a little slow, very low casualty, and have small terrain penalty and can go everywhere, mountain....
 
Idk what to say but one thing is certain: You need tanks to do breakthroughts, doing an Super Infantry with 4 arty doesnt help because of artillery waste

Nonetheless Good Luck with your discovery!!!!
its worked fine.
im very limited IC(25 MILS), can't build tanks.

Mass assault let u continously atack without big punishment, its all i need for get level 9 general achievment.
 
Mass Assault right side has some fun gimmicks. The manpower boost is extremely valuable for naturally low population nations, and the stacking “out of supply” boosts make them weirdly powerful in certain areas with terrible supply like Africa and parts of Russia. The combat width modifier lets you make chunky high HP divisions that dont take a lot of damage (which...is kind of weird thematically but it still works in game). Also the ability to force high combat width fights lets you wreck with CAS if you have enough of them and air superiority.

Its still probably not that great objectively speaking compared to Superior Firepower, but I find it enjoyable to use when I can.
 
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Mass Assault right side has some fun gimmicks. The manpower boost is extremely valuable for naturally low population nations, and the stacking “out of supply” boosts make them weirdly powerful in certain areas with terrible supply like Africa and parts of Russia. The combat width modifier lets you make chunky high HP divisions that dont take a lot of damage (which...is kind of weird thematically but it still works in game). Also the ability to force high combat width fights lets you wreck with CAS if you have enough of them and air superiority.

Its still probably not that great objectively speaking compared to Superior Firepower, but I find it enjoyable to use when I can.
Also its fits perfect for a minor helping allies, because the allies take care of air, and cover fronts, so u can stack 24 divisions to atack a single point for days without worry about loses.

Thats why i combined it with radio instead of AA.

But i wil switch to AA later, because i will fight the allies, alone(im grinding lvl 9 general achievment)
 
the 9/1, but i think, with massive ORG from MW or the massive soft power from SP i was to be okay without hospitals no?
You're trying to compare infantry offensives between a 21w 9/1 with MW or SF, to a 34.4w 14/4 with MM? Given how costly infantry offensives tend to be, the hospitals are basically at their most efficient in this scenario. And its a larger template with more fire power, you're going to be better able to concentrate your stats against the enemy. I didn't realize you were using such different units in these comparisons.
im very limited IC(25 MILS), can't build tanks.
Yet you can build 22 14/4's? Thats somewhere around 25k IC you've sunk into that entire force. Unless this is the entirety of your army and this is pulling double duty as both offense and defense, It looks like you have at least some wiggle room to shuffle things around.
 
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i don't think you can outdo support stuffing integrated support in sf if you're looking to rack up damage using infantry to breach lines. op picture must be around '43 tech, and is at 12.07 sa/width. 10w sf infantry with literally nothing but support arty has 13.5 sa/width, lol. if you give it other support company to specialize it for attacking (rocket support, engineer, aa) it is over 20 sa/width at same tech. it already does more damage with 1940 tech. if you want to fight in bad terrain...well...10w of pure special forces will outperform in that regard too. if you want to cap your damage with like 6 factories before the war, this is the way. make a bunch of line holders and use these to drop lots of soft attacks to make breaches in ai lines. it's one of the only ways you're going to drop 6k soft attacks on a province w/o tanks; grind up a general with all the infantry modifiers, get planning bonus, and attack from a few directions using these.

if you are legit ic-constrained, signals and especially field hospitals shouldn't be appearing in your divisions. unless you're relying on the battleplanner to do your offensives, which wastes a tremendous amount of equipment and manpower regardless, signals are junk. they make an awful choice (battle planner offensive) a little less awful.

front lines are still extremely annoying in this game. i can't prevent units assigned to one from attacking with 0 active order, but routing through enemy territory as i create a pocket. it's mind boggling-awful that it's still a problem in hoi where units attack while not on offensive orders, and attack away from any line. but even in these cases, signals are still contributing relatively little.
 
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Yet you can build 22 14/4's? Thats somewhere around 25k IC you've sunk into that entire force. Unless this is the entirety of your army and this is pulling double duty as both offense and defense, It looks like you have at least some wiggle room to shuffle things around.
Yes i entered war only in 44, running free trade all time(i even have spare rifles to lend lease to russia), and its my only force.

and thanks to combat width discount i build a even more larger INF template 17/5.

Im running to level 9 general achievment.

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i don't think you can outdo support stuffing integrated support in sf if you're looking to rack up damage using infantry to breach lines.
The problem here I think is that you say damage, and then mostly go on to talk about SA/W.

Raw SA/W doesn't always directly translate into more damage. The attacks have to be distributed across the enemy targets, and activate an amount of enemy defenses. Despite having a technically lower SA/W, larger templates can certainly end up dealing more damage because of the way they distribute their attacks. Its one of the reasons stuff like 40w templates have been so popular, despite existing at the same time that low width templates and SF have.

I'm not sure what part of the conversation you're replying to, but there was a tangent about veterancy. As much as small width templates might have the attacks and the total org to be able to push through a greater amount of things, they will also suffer pretty heavy losses in the process.
 
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Raw SA/W doesn't always directly translate into more damage. The attacks have to be distributed across the enemy targets, and activate an amount of enemy defenses. Despite having a technically lower SA/W, larger templates can certainly end up dealing more damage because of the way they distribute their attacks. Its one of the reasons stuff like 40w templates have been so popular, despite existing at the same time that low width templates and SF have.
the value of this damage distribution is debatable, and was somewhat further gimped by coordination change. the 10w will always deal more total damage, and they will *sometimes* distribute it more. but it's not a trivial amount more. we're talking something approximating 1.6 to 1.7 times the *base* damage compare to op's division, at equal tech. and that's assuming no terrain penalties, which further favor the 10w. if we're doing something like attacking amphibious/big river crossing with pure marine 10w+ support, or into mountains with 10 pure mountaineers, then op has to either give up the combat width advantage from using regular infantry with mass assault or suffer a huge gap in terrain penalty...wouldn't be surprised to see more than 2x damage difference in practice.

it begins to stretch credibility that there can be enough opposing divisions in target width where having 1.7 times base damage and better terrain modifiers won't just deal more damage even to individual targets...and if any of those targets route for a moment, you then have that massive attack lead concentrated on fewer remaining units. the fewer target divs there are, the better the odds that last ones get defenses overwhelmed by 8-12x different divisions suddenly targeting 1-2 divs. this is good; the reinforcement time window is then tiny, and that's what we need to beat to push things off the province.

there are a number of reasons i suspect players don't use this in mp very often, not the least of which is that tanks can do the same thing better, while moving faster as a division, for less micromanagement time in an environment where they can't pause. but it's also not common to forgo tanks in favor of infantry-based offensives in mp generally, nor is it common to play nations where 3-5 mic before first war is the expectation.

I'm not sure what part of the conversation you're replying to, but there was a tangent about veterancy. As much as small width templates might have the attacks and the total org to be able to push through a greater amount of things, they will also suffer pretty heavy losses in the process.
it is unlikely you get max level guys or anything, but from empirical evidence/actually using them myself, i can say that they also do not drop below regular unless you really botch your micro badly or do things like intentionally slam them into large division counts they can't pierce. anything short of that extreme misplay, and they're more or less permanently regulars. speaking of actually trying it, i've used them plenty. they do in fact blast the ai off the line quickly.

obviously you'll want to use something else to move through the openings they make, but that's true for any other 4km division too.
 
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Raw SA/W doesn't always directly translate into more damage. The attacks have to be distributed across the enemy targets, and activate an amount of enemy defenses. Despite having a technically lower SA/W, larger templates can certainly end up dealing more damage because of the way they distribute their attacks. Its one of the reasons stuff like 40w templates have been so popular, despite existing at the same time that low width templates and SF have.

On attack the 10w is not behind the 40w much but in defend it is great. And most of the damage is when you encicle enemy, not on the attack.

The benefit of 10w:
- Cheap support fire, multiple support slot.
- +50% attack with SF-R
- Because it is cheap, it is on mass number.
- Never care about Org again, let's attack constantly. Save the Org traits, Org bonus for anything else.

The notes:
- better to use in pair to reduce damage if caught with big force.
 
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the 10w will always deal more total damage
I'm sure if I played with the numbers enough, I'd find a set of variables where this isn't the case. 60% more attacks is a lot more attacks, it's going to be pretty difficult to be able to overcome that sort of obstacle and so the set that I find would become increasingly difficult to achieve in the game. But you didn't say it would be difficult to get more damage with the big templates, you said you will never get more damage with big templates. Does that mean you've already explored the entire space to make that claim, or are you extrapolating from the data you have without having checked the fringes?
 
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But you didn't say it would be difficult to get more damage with the big templates, you said you will never get more damage with big templates. Does that mean you've already explored the entire space to make that claim, or are you extrapolating from the data you have without having checked the fringes?
the latter, but keep in mind i used the qualifier of using infantry to breach lines. it is absolutely possible outside that constraint.

and remember, original claim was just damage using infantry. i meant raw damage when i said it, though i didn't make that clear. that said, i could also just be mistaken. i played around with it a lot and tried a lot of different templates, but i didn't try literally everything.

technically, using integrated support with artillery only has more damage, but that doesn't have infantry and good luck with that.