When the Clans arrive, how do you think they should be implemented?

[Arch-Heretek]

I think you should go look at the starmap we have in battle tech, alot of systems, even in the big houses is still not inner sphere tech, some are described as abandoned... and if the tech isnt in decline how is it that the house Arano dosent use the manny Grffins found, mind you the Griffin is a common mech, and house Arano have inner sphere tech, its refered to they cant repair the Griffins, while we as a Mercenary team can since we have this high tech flying station the Argo... so no, in 3025 things isnt recovered, i say its still very much in decline, or are you saying Jordan is wrong in a game he been part in making ?

What a useless strawman argument. You entirely disregard that at this point in time the Arano Restoration controls a whole three planets, none of which seem to be industrial centers. On top of that, they still have an off-creen standing army, including so-called rare 'Mechs likes Arno's own Kintaro. Finally, this 'random mercenary team' has the backing of one major and one minor Periphery power and access to all of their experts. Even the dropship is outdated if you listen to Dr. Murad, she states its old and can't really hold its own, but its more than random pirate groups or other mercenaries would have. On top of even that, we have the whole upgrade and repair system, eventually restoring the ship to Star League era 'granduer' and even surpassing that in some ways, which would never even be possible if there was no way to replace or repair the missing sections.

 

[macd21]

I think you should go look at the starmap we have in battle tech, alot of systems, even in the big houses is still not inner sphere tech, some are described as abandoned... and if the tech isnt in decline how is it that the house Arano dosent use the manny Grffins found, mind you the Griffin is a common mech, and house Arano have inner sphere tech, its refered to they cant repair the Griffins, while we as a Mercenary team can since we have this high tech flying station the Argo... so no, in 3025 things isnt recovered, i say its still very much in decline, or are you saying Jordan is wrong in a game he been part in making ?

The Aurigan Reach is a backwater Periphery realm, poor even by the standards of Periphery nations (it’s nothing compared to the Taurians or Canopians).

 

[Yavanion]

The Aurigan Reach is a backwater Periphery realm, poor even by the standards of Periphery nations (it’s nothing compared to the Taurians or Canopians).

With systems that have inner sphere tech level, as the Taurians, or the Canopians... all houses still have back water systems, lacking industrial capabilities... And it still doesnt change the fact, if they have inner sphere tech, and have problems repairing a common mech as a Griffin... i hardly say inner sphere tech is anywhere near recovered in 3025...

 

[Yavanion]

What a useless strawman argument. You entirely disregard that at this point in time the Arano Restoration controls a whole three planets, none of which seem to be industrial centers. On top of that, they still have an off-creen standing army, including so-called rare 'Mechs likes Arno's own Kintaro. Finally, this 'random mercenary team' has the backing of one major and one minor Periphery power and access to all of their experts. Even the dropship is outdated if you listen to Dr. Murad, she states its old and can't really hold its own, but its more than random pirate groups or other mercenaries would have. On top of even that, we have the whole upgrade and repair system, eventually restoring the ship to Star League era 'granduer' and even surpassing that in some ways, which would never even be possible if there was no way to replace or repair the missing sections.

How is it a strawman, its there in black and white go look at the damn map, you see systems refered to as INNER SPHERE tech level, if they have problems reparing a common mech as a griffin, its hardly any where near recovered at 3025...

Edit, and mind you, they have the backing of the Magistracy of Canopus, as valuable as mech is, they would put those mechs to good use if they could

As for the Argo, its not a dropship, its a flying space station

 

[Deathdealer 6]

Haven't the guys at HBS said in an interview with PC Gamer that the Clans aren't coming anytime soon?

Seems like this thread is a waste of time and energy. This is years away...if it ever happens at all.

 

[Max_Killjoy]

Haven't the guys at HBS said in an interview with PC Gamer that the Clans aren't coming anytime soon?

Seems like this thread is a waste of time and energy. This is years away...if it ever happens at all.

IMO, I hope you're right.

There's so much between "now" and "the Clans" to add to the game in terms of events, tech, time, etc.

But for whatever reason, there's a segment of the fanbase that adores the clans...

 

[KillerAvocado]

Right, so here's my preference for what it's worth.

DLC's for this game involve more 3025 stories. New mercenaries in different areas of the IS. Maybe some non-merc storylines. Hell, maybe even a Solaris expansion. Combined arms with infantry and player controlled vehicles. Aerospace combat. So on and so forth.

Battletech 2 - invasion of the clans from the perspective of the IS. Clan AI would need to be revamped (focus on one on one combat, no shooting at downed mechs, tonnage limits based on the bidding system, etc... ). Replace morale with honor for clan units that acts similarly, but emphasises the honor play and penalizes dishonor.

And no salvage - the parts are totally incompatible. Maybe some kind of reverse engineering that starts to see some minor enhancements to IS tech, but you shouldn't be able to slap a clan ERML on an IS mech - it's like trying to install Windows software on a Mac if you'd never seen Windows OS before...

I think that would be interesting, and waiting for the game sequel does the following:
- people who don't want clans because of MP issues can stick to BT1 MP.
- it waits to progress to this major timeline event until the sequel, which seems fitting given how major the plot point is.

 

[Skwyrm]

sorry. I always thought the clan was a malus to the game. i hope we dont get them at all

 

[Max_Killjoy]

And no salvage - the parts are totally incompatible. Maybe some kind of reverse engineering that starts to see some minor enhancements to IS tech, but you shouldn't be able to slap a clan ERML on an IS mech - it's like trying to install Windows software on a Mac if you'd never seen Windows OS before...

Clan gear is designed to be highly modular and interchangeable, I don't see any inherent problem in using it as salvage.

Hell, for me, the only fun thing about the Clans was using dirty tricks and actual tactics to overwhelm the naive fanatics pining for ritualized combat, giving them the "glorious deaths" they longed for, tearing their mechs apart while they were still trying to fight back like a pack of wild dogs to get the salvage, and then later using their own weapons against them later.

My merc unit back then in TT was called The Cutting Crew for a reason.

 

[Metus Regem]

If the Clans have to be more powerful, they should be slight improvements, not drastic enhancements.

Instead of the CERML having 450m, or equal to an IS LL, the CERML should have 330m to the IS 270 just as one example.

A while back, my group that does TT regularly re-did the Clan invasion, only giving the Clans IS Civil war era kit, with Omni versions of SLDF/3039 era mechs... it was much, much more balanced.

 

[Arch-Heretek]

How is it a strawman, its there in black and white go look at the damn map, you see systems refered to as INNER SPHERE tech level, if they have problems reparing a common mech as a griffin, its hardly any where near recovered at 3025...

Edit, and mind you, they have the backing of the Magistracy of Canopus, as valuable as mech is, they would put those mechs to good use if they could

As for the Argo, its not a dropship, its a flying space station

It's a strawman because it's a singular example taken completely out of context, ie the fact they only have three worlds, and seeks to put anyone who disagrees with the position of arguing with the BT devs themselves.

Inner Sphere Tech means they posses that kind of technological level, that doesn't mean every planet with the 'Inner Sphere' modifier is an industrial world capable of everything associated with it. There are agricultural worlds, metropolitan worlds, trading hubs, industrial powerhouses, mining worlds, etc. I do not expect a bunch of farmers or a penal colony to possess the industrial base to build war machines.

If the average IS world cannot build or maintain mechs, how are there any still operational or being built? Why would a decrepit "space station," rebuilt basically from the ground up by Periphery powers, have the means to do so when an IS industrial world like Detroit does not? The truth is the IS has its own backwaters, its own kinds of planets. Not every planet is the same even if they possess similar tech and industry. A truck factory may be state of the art but it does not generally possess the means to produce tanks.

And by-the-by, the Argo is most certainly a DropShip, described as such in-game and by other canon criteria.

 

[wundergoat]

A while back, my group that does TT regularly re-did the Clan invasion, only giving the Clans IS Civil war era kit, with Omni versions of SLDF/3039 era mechs... it was much, much more balanced.

More balanced if you are trying to play with similar numbers.

3025 IS vs Clan is balanced, if the IS outnumbers them appropriately.

The problem is that most people don’t play that way and most computer games don’t balance with numbers. If you take away the big disadvantage of the Clans, of course they are going to seem OP.

Clan gear is designed to be highly modular and interchangeable, I don't see any inherent problem in using it as salvage.

Hell, for me, the only fun thing about the Clans was using dirty tricks and actual tactics to overwhelm the naive fanatics pining for ritualized combat, giving them the "glorious deaths" they longed for, tearing their mechs apart while they were still trying to fight back like a pack of wild dogs to get the salvage, and then later using their own weapons against them later.

My merc unit back then in TT was called The Cutting Crew for a reason.

This is how you fight the Clans in with 3025 tech. Dirty tricks in bad terrain where their speed and range advantages are nullified, taking advantage of zell and breaking it at the right moment.

On clantech: it isn’t compatible with IS out of the box, and isn’t inherently modular (though it might be installed in an omni pod, which is modular with clan omnimechs). I suspect that the cause is differing design standards like connectors, heat transfer fluids, voltage/amperage, and other things that could be worked around if you knew how and had the right materials. IS omnimechs are the exception, since they were designed from the ground up as compatible.

 

[Warspectre]

As IS fighting the Clans in a single player campaign I think they should be as true to TT as possible, although I think we might want full companies instead of a lance for those battles. But for any kind of multiplayer most humans don't want to fight hopelessly lopsided battles against other humans. So for multiplayer, they'd have to be nerfed like crazy, unless the only option was Clan v Clan.

 

[wundergoat]

As IS fighting the Clans in a single player campaign I think they should be as true to TT as possible, although I think we might want full companies instead of a lance for those battles. But for any kind of multiplayer most humans don't want to fight hopelessly lopsided battles against other humans. So for multiplayer, they'd have to be nerfed like crazy, unless the only option was Clan v Clan.

In a tactical game, there is no reason why we couldn’t have assymetic sides. More IS vs less Clan, and we can balance the same way assaults and lights are balanced now. By C-bill.

It doesn’t work as nicely in sims like MWO since each player only has a single mech, but that restriction doesn’t exist here.

 

[IceTitan]

Majority of the IS worlds are 20th century tech level due to the Amaris civil war and the 1st and second succession war. Some are even bombed back to the stone age while some are medevil level.

The IS in e
3025 is in serious technological decline to the point that only 12 Jumpship is built each year, and no they dont have a ton of jumpships that are active. At least thats what they said in the Grey Death triology

Only capitals and some key worlds have decent tech. But 95% of the IS has limited technology. And majority of the worlds cannot field, maintain operate mechs. Some can barely manage to maintain Vehicles.

 

[Mechabattler]

If they're not going to let IS have more than a lance of mechs. Then the Clans are going to have to drop at a lighter tonnage to make missions even remotely close. The tonnages could be a little closer together as we get refit kits to upgrade our mechs with Lostech. Then even closer if we can get clan tech salvage.

Course if it's purely from the Clan perspective. Then it won't matter. It'll be the same game. You'll just be stomping IS mechs in larger numbers.

 

[RealCadaver]

[QUOTE="

...And by-the-by, the Argo is most certainly a DropShip, described as such in-game and by other canon criteria.[/QUOTE]

Just to jump in on this point only. Sarna readily admits their entry is " This source does not meet the current criteria for Canon, and is thus treated as apocryphal at this time."

In game (think it's part of a conversation). it is also mentioned the Argo is not a dropship. It carries the Leopard, it can't drop on it's own. It is a flying spacestation, not capable of combat.

OK, that's it, I'm done, continue your debate, it was about dirty clanners, wasn't it?

 

[wundergoat]

Just to jump in on this point only. Sarna readily admits their entry is " This source does not meet the current criteria for Canon, and is thus treated as apocryphal at this time."

In game (think it's part of a conversation). it is also mentioned the Argo is not a dropship. It carries the Leopard, it can't drop on it's own. It is a flying spacestation, not capable of combat.

OK, that's it, I'm done, continue your debate, it was about dirty clanners, wasn't it?

Being able to fly in atmosphere isn’t a requirement of being a “dropship” in canon. Lots of dropships are not atmosphere-capable, and the origin of the term is that dropships “drop away” from jumpships.

The Argo has a transit drive and a KF boom for transportation via jump ship, which makes it much more like a dropship than a station by in-universe definition.

*edit - fixed broken quote

 

[Max_Killjoy]

I thought the source of the term "dropship" was that it was how military units were "dropped" from orbit to a planet...

To me, the Argo would appear to be something different, separate from either Jumpships or Dropships.

(PS: there are some broken quote tags going on there...)

 

[wundergoat]

That’s the common sci fi definition but not the one used here. Achilles, vengeance, and behemoth dropships can’t enter atmosphere but are still considered dropships.

Yeah, caught the broken quote tag late and can’t edit from my phone