That's awesome! Why did you vassalize and not take the territory? You can't form Italy unless you actually own the provinces, can you? (Might have it changed it in the last beta.)
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That's awesome! Why did you vassalize and not take the territory? You can't form Italy unless you actually own the provinces, can you? (Might have it changed it in the last beta.)
Finland have quite nice production. And it is better to own provinces than give them to vassals, because vassals are not always doing what they should. And it make your capital secure from enemy attacks, as those provinces brings much of attrition to the enemies. They are poor in taxes but they are important as strategical point. You don't have to go further, but you should take them. Anyway it is your choice.
Anyway i played as russia and took them before the 1600. Still had to fight with scandinavia, so decided that it will be better if i will take those provinces, or they would be able to capture my capital every time they start a war with me. Still i did go to full quantity and saw one bad thing of being full quantity... if you fight with enemies that have armies of your size or bigger you can easily loose... i had this problem when Poland-Hungary-HRE (one country
- they inherited hungary and became emperor) attacked me with their forces... still me and them gained almost full war exhaustion in one battle so they agreed that if i will give them one province and few gold they will make peace with me. Still my army was way below my limit... i had only 100 000 army when i fought them... and they had about 150 000... or less but still bigger than me, and high quality... still i was attacked not only by them, but also by MING, and a few other minors and majors... Thou i won one war while fighting in this - defeated lithuania... still when i builded my army to the limit i was able to defeat them and regain lost provinces... also the war exhaustion they got, made them lost some of their armies, also they had not so much manpower as i had... adding to that i got one fine event that reduced the war exhaustion. So quanity won in longer measure of time, because i was able to quickly rebuild my armies, while they have now... about 50 000 army... while still being emperor. And lost only one province to me... Quantity just made your armies rebuilding quicker, and reduces the cost of maintaining them... and recruiting that is helpfull. Now on my actual gameplay i have 200 000 army, and i am not minting anything, and still have no problem with maintenance... still i have limit of 220 but i could have even 300 regiments and it would not be a problem... could do an aar but im too lazy XDEDIT: Polish armies, had to cost fortune, even as they got one of best incomes... i believe about tenth in world i suppose... still im first XD
Feedback
Boris -- See Sirce's comment.
Sirce -- You're right on -- welcome to the AAR, by the way!
Iwanow -- Sounds like you might be rethinking the always full quantity strategy
Until I started playing DW, I never looked at production, so you could be right on that. There are some provinces between St. Petersburg and Scandinavia already -- the map should show you that -- and the Swiss have Finland, my loyal ally. Honestly, I've never felt the capital was threatened at any point.I'll probably my start test game this evening; please do keep voting, since Tuscany isn't set in stone, obviously.
Request for feedback
If I understand this correctly, to get a PU you must be 1) married to another country (obviously) and 2) have higher prestige (to get it peacefully). Is this it, or am I missing something? I would dearly love to avoid fighting Milan if I could
why not use the mythological converter and convert it in to victoria and later into hoi2?
Boris -- The whole point is to avoid conflict with Milan
Deus Eversor -- That's the plan, once the converter is no longer mythological -- I let a friend out of state borrow HOI 3 and I'm waiting to get it back.
Deus Eversor -- That's the plan, once the converter is no longer mythological -- I let a friend out of state borrow HOI 3 and I'm waiting to get it back.
To get a "certain" PU, you have to Claim their throne when they don't have an heir and you have a royal marriage. And hope their monarch dies before getting a heir.
Ah hah! That was the missing step! Doesn't using "claim throne" tank relations with everybody else you have an RM with?
Feedback
Boris -- See Sirce's comment.
Sirce -- You're right on -- welcome to the AAR, by the way!
Iwanow -- Sounds like you might be rethinking the always full quantity strategy
I'll probably my start test game this evening; please do keep voting, since Tuscany isn't set in stone, obviously.
Request for feedback
If I understand this correctly, to get a PU you must be 1) married to another country (obviously) and 2) have higher prestige (to get it peacefully). Is this it, or am I missing something? I would dearly love to avoid fighting Milan if I could
Im not rethinking as it is good strategy
the problem is when i got lower tech and no war tradition... and lesser armies. Whatever now even france that is owning aragon and whole french territories +some german, wouldn't win a war with me. Also cheap soliders are much more easily to recruit. Even full quality prussia formed by brandenburg with prussian military reforms would have some problems fighting me, as my territory is so vast that to conquer it all you would need decades, or maybe even hunderds of years. Still i think my land is secured, and i am just waiting my BB become lower, as i want to conquer some asian territories... Full quantity is nice if you have realy big armies and manpower pool, also it is nice if you quite good tech, to not get whacking every times you fight with more quality oriented enemy. When you fight on full quantity you must just maneuver the enemy to loose his armies due attrition, and ambush the enemy with your greater armies. When his armies dissapear, you can deploy your artillery to siege his land . When you are full quality, you must avoid attrition, and attack quickly the enemy main army, destroy it, and then try to not die from attrition - and while ur fighting with the great enemy army you need to lay sieges to the enemy. While you're high quality you just need not to loose your armies, and when you loose them - then it is tragedy (because they are not cheap anyway)... while when you loose your armies on full quantity... this is not so big problem as you can quickly raise up new ones (because they are cheap like bread)... if not on this war, then just after peace...EDIT: Recovering from lost war is easier for country that have full quantity that for country who has full quality.
Also i have to say that my infantry costs 3 ducats per regiment, to recruit, and calvary about 10 or 9 or maybe even less i don't remember... i suppose your infantry cost about 12 ducats... that 4 times more. If im right.
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Iwanow -- Of course the solution is to not lose a war I do get your point though. My reasoning for going full quality in this game was that I knew that, past a certain point, I would have nigh limitless reserves of manpower. I also knew that my economy would be so huge, again past a certain point, that I wouldn't care how much I paid per regiment. I'll probably lean a bit towards quantity in the Tuscany game, but I haven't even started that yet. Uriah's HOI 3 AAR is much too good, and I want to get all the way caught up.
Dr. Gonzo -- Thanks for the feedback!
I do get your point though. My reasoning for going full quality in this game was that I knew that, past a certain point, I would have nigh limitless reserves of manpower. I also knew that my economy would be so huge, again past a certain point, that I wouldn't care how much I paid per regiment. I'll probably lean a bit towards quantity in the Tuscany game, but I haven't even started that yet. Uriah's HOI 3 AAR is much too good, and I want to get all the way caught up.Dr. Gonzo -- Thanks for the feedback!
Iwanow -- Of course the solution is to not lose a war
Dr. Gonzo -- Thanks for the feedback!
Quantity is not good for italy anyway... as you won't have so big armies. And you will have to fight with high quality armies, that can be even double of your size. As i said earlier when you're small you need to go quality. When you are bigger you can go quantity, but it is not ALLWAYS good. It depend on the situation.
EDIT: None of italian culture provinces have so much manpower as russian, like moscow. Only city that have close manpower in the game is paris... and it is not italian XD
EDIT 2: for russia it is always good to conquer kiev... one of best provinces... good base tax and manpower... but you already have it
EDIT 3: better base tax than moscow at the beggining...
Oh and about manpower - quantity give you reinforcement bonus per point up to 25%, that mean you can reinforce your army almost everywhere, and do it faster. While ur quality, you do not reinforce your troops so fast. That is the difference.
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Quantity is not good for italy anyway... as you won't have so big armies. And you will have to fight with high quality armies, that can be even double of your size. As i said earlier when you're small you need to go quality. When you are bigger you can go quantity, but it is not ALLWAYS good. It depend on the situation.
EDIT: None of italian culture provinces have so much manpower as russian, like moscow. Only city that have close manpower in the game is paris... and it is not italian XD
EDIT 2: for russia it is always good to conquer kiev... one of best provinces... good base tax and manpower... but you already have it
EDIT 3: better base tax than moscow at the beggining...
Oh and about manpower - quantity give you reinforcement bonus per point up to 25%, that mean you can reinforce your army almost everywhere, and do it faster. While ur quality, you do not reinforce your troops so fast. That is the difference.
I didn't know about the reinforcement bonus -- that could have been very useful! I just knew about the national manpower modifier.
I may try to get an update in tomorrow -- I'm helping an out-of-state colleague with a research project on Thursday, and I have some interlibrary loan books to return that I need to take quality notes on (Julian Corbett's two volume history on the maritime operations of the Russo-Japanese War, if you're interested) on Friday/Saturday, plus I really ought to get to back to work on the lectures for my summer course (my first one teaching solo! Very excited!). So, mostly likely tomorrow -- if not tomorrow, probably Saturday or Sunday.
Just for fun, here's my most recent test game --
I've had some good luck and bad luck -- every time I've played this (about three or four, so far), Siena and Pisa always defect from Milan, and Pisa is my only core outside of Tuscany to start with. Tuscany's missions are putrid -- not a single one gave any real benefits. I stupidly dishonored Castille's call to arms and cost myself a bunch of prestige -- I actually have a PU with Modena. I don't think I'd be reforming the Roman Empire with Tuscany, but forming Italy seems quite reasonable -- all I have to do at this point is just sit and wait for stuff to core and I can form Italy. I will, of course, obey the will of the general crowd -- if it means I need to tone down the objectives, so be it
I've had some good luck and bad luck -- every time I've played this (about three or four, so far), Siena and Pisa always defect from Milan, and Pisa is my only core outside of Tuscany to start with. Tuscany's missions are putrid -- not a single one gave any real benefits. I stupidly dishonored Castille's call to arms and cost myself a bunch of prestige -- I actually have a PU with Modena. I don't think I'd be reforming the Roman Empire with Tuscany, but forming Italy seems quite reasonable -- all I have to do at this point is just sit and wait for stuff to core and I can form Italy. I will, of course, obey the will of the general crowd -- if it means I need to tone down the objectives, so be it
I vassalized because they were HRE-territories, so I'd have suffered quite badly from not having cores on them. On the other hand, once they're vassals you can just wait before you get a mission to integrate them, netting you the needed cores. Works perfect on OPMs.
Oh, and I totally agree on the missions being putrid.
Tuscany is quite weak country for me. I once played them, and think that playing them is realy quite hard. But they always can expand somehow. Also remember that italian land have quite high supply rate, so you won't need to go quanity, and as others go quality, you will need to do the same. Also you should go Defensive .
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This is my Tuscany game. The first game I was really successful in too.
It's a pretty fun game, you're well set economically, and Italy has very interesting ways to expand.
It's a pretty fun game, you're well set economically, and Italy has very interesting ways to expand.
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Feedback
the_turtle -- There is that -- I honestly hadn't thought of that before I started playing. I'll start a new test game soon with the new beta patch and will see how that goes. I think you can integrate after 50 years with a PU also, if you go that route.
Iwanow -- I totally agree with you on this -- the first couple of times I had really awful luck. It's the hardest country I've played, but once you get through the first few years, it's more sustainable.
Concrete -- That's mighty impressive! Is that 1821? I probably won't be colonizing in the eventual AAR -- I think trying to beat every major European power will be hard enough
Still planning on an update sometime today. As a reminder, the current poll is
Tuscany 5
Naples 1
Milan 0.
Keep voting!