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Doomdark

Chief Creative Officer
Paradox Staff
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Apr 3, 2000
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Well, what do you know? It's Legacy of Rome dev diary day again! Today's topics are Liege Levies and Retinues.

In patch v1.07, you raise fewer, larger levies from your direct vassals (we call these "Liege Levies" for lack of a better term.) These levies are now handled separately from actual Holding levies; you only get regular holding levies from your own Demesne. The opinions of vassals of vassals are thus now mostly irrelevant; you only need to worry about the opinions of your direct vassals. Another benefit is that you don't get tiny little armies all over the place when you mobilize your realm. Liege levies also fix a fundamental balancing flaw in that you can no longer just keep raising little levies from all vassals as a war drags on (due to the portion of holding levies that was reserved for the liege.) The new Liege Levies do not reinforce at home while raised.

LoR_02_Liege_Levies.jpg

That's it for Liege Levies. Now, the concept of Retinues should be familiar to those of you who have played Sengoku. Basically, Retinues are your household guard; your elite core of professional soldiers. At the start of the game, most rulers are not able to employ Retinues, but it becomes possible as their total manpower (based on all the levies in their realm) and average Military Organization (a new technology) level increase. Over time, the Retinues turn into proper standing armies. The downside is that, as your Retinue capacity increases, your normal levies decrease in size. However, even at max tech, levies will still account for the majority of your armies.

There are many types of Retinues available for hire - including several unique cultural variants - though they always come in 500-man regiments with a commander of your own culture. Retinues reinforce in the field, like mercenaries, and when you first hire them, they start with 1 man. Unlike armies in other games, for example Europa Universalis, Retinues only cost maintenance while they reinforce. You are of course allowed to declare war even if you have Retinues (which are always standing on the map.)

LoR_02_Cataphract_Retinue.jpg

So, why did we choose to add the Retinue system to the DLC? Why should you spend $6 on Legacy of Rome rather than a Latte and a slice of cake? There are many reasons, including these:

  • Retinues make arranging your flanks and balancing your armies far more tactical
  • Having a dependable standing army ready is strategically preferable
  • They fit nicely into the overall military system in patch v1.07 with Liege Levies, etc
  • History saw levy based militaries transform gradually into more professional forces

LoR_02_New_Retinue.jpg

I should mention again that the whole Retinue mechanic requires that you own the DLC; if you don't, the new Retinue tab will be grayed out in the military view and the AI will not use Retinues either. However, if the host in a multiplayer game owns the DLC, all players will be able to use Retinues.

I think that will do it for today. Next week, I plan to talk about the new Leader traits and cultural buildings. Until then!
 
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Sounds interesting and looking forward to it.

So I guess the liege levies now not replenishing means that all wars will tend to be shorter and you'll get less of the AI-AI wars that drag on for 20 years?

In general, yes.
 
I don't suppose the Retinue system will have a "Hunt for Rebels" button, right? :p

Also, does everyone get a Retinue or will it just be the overall ruler of a nation?

Everyone who has enough total manpower under them.
 
What happens with the retinue army if it's disbanded or obliterated in battle? Will it simply regrow again or is it lost forever unless bought again?

If it's in an army with surviving troops, it will survive, but if the whole army is slaughtered, it's gone.
 
I'm curious as to what will happen if I load a previous version save game that was saved during a major war with "tiny little armies all over the place"?

Nothing good. They will likely all be gone.
 
i want this now !

but one question, why do the characters have so dark skin colour, aren't they supposed to look like greeks/romans? in the portraits they look more arabian then the actual arabs.

It's a work in progress, but I do agree.
 
I forgot to ask but.
Does this mean that, for example as the HRE, I could park a 2k retinue on top of the independent count north of me, wait till I have claims, then declare ware and have them besieged, all without using up my men or money (since they only cost money if they're reinforcing, and if your army is larger than a county's total levies the defenders won't sally forth)

No, you can't have troops inside the target's territory.

Also, what about the Varangian Guard? Will they remain as vassal mercenaries?

Yes.
 
Mr. Doomdark how far does the maintenance cost balloon to when retinues reach near-peak sizes? Will they eventually become unsustainable unless we start holding a lot of cities?

Well, they only cost maintenance while reinforcing. But, when they do reinforce, they are quite expensive.
 
Just wondering, if say your retinue gets destroyed, why you can't just create a new retinue? Or is the reinforce speed of an existing retinue faster than the recruit speed of a new one?

Because I remember one of the problems of EU3 was that destroying whole armies almost meant nothing except as a financial hit (especially if you have a ton of manpower), when you can simply raise newer armies.

How is this different in CK2?

I am not sure I understand the problem. If you raise a new retinue regiment, it will start with 1 man, cost you a bunch to hire, and reinforce very slowly (though it's the same rate as for old damaged retinues).
 
If my vassal can raise, say, 15k troops, will that potentially give me a stack that is immediately over the supply limit of the province they're raised in?

No, it's handled by splitting it up.
 
I think there's likely to be 3 more DD's for this, hard to see how there'd be more. One for the Patriarchy, one for Byzantine-specific events/decisions, and one for the new combat stuff.
 
Byzantine rulers will have a decision to move the capital to Constantinople if it's held by a vassal, and the AI should always fire it when it's available.
 
That is so damn tight, though. A DLC focusing on the Byzantines, but you have to buy another one to get them to look like Byzantines?

First of all, these new faces are not limited to Byzantine/Greek characters alone and they were never a part of the original Legacy of Rome DLC plan to begin with. This is the separate work of the talented artists at Paradox South, and they are an entirely optional graphical addition to the game for those who want it. It's not a question of us taking something out of the DLC and deciding to sell it on its own in a bid to make more cash. In fact, we did the exact opposite with the Factions system which we took out of the DLC and included with the free upcoming patch.

Considering the amount of free content that will be in the patch and the fact that Legacy of Rome is only $6, I don't think we're being tight.