• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
The responses the developers received in the other thread were sometimes rude and hostile. I can understand them not wanting to put up with that. Calling it a "fascist politic" makes it less likely you will get a response.

For myself, I am excited about the upcoming Cities: Skylines game, and seeing the developer blog, I understand why they are spending their time on that rather than their previous game.

REALLY? I stayed polite and respectful throughout ALL of my posts in this thread regarding this ongoing pathfinding issue with waterbuses that apparently stemmed from CIM 1 but look at the responses in this thread. ZERO response from developers since October of last year.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...oblems-Waterbuses-Can-t-Exit-from-Piers-Stops

This is the reason that perhaps caused some rude and hostile comments from gamers albeit incorrect. If the developers had given proper updates and honest answers instead of ignoring gamers even if they are not able to take a look at the problems further, then gamers would understand and not be so angry. We are NOT here to give developers a hard time; we just want to see our beloved game that we paid for improved and more enjoyable to play.
 
No that's not for me! :angry:
CSL is a city builder game NOT at transport game. Thus CSL can never be a replacement for CIM2 (or CIM1). I've moved on to Train-Fever because it's a transport game; that's my interest. :)

Off-Topic
Correction, C:SL is a city simulator, you do not just build buildings. The city has to simulate lots of variables which has an effect on every individual citizen simulated within the game, one of those being transport. The transport system in C:SL is almost exactly the same as CiM's in terms of setting up stations/stops, routes and depots (I also predict there to be a big transport expansion coming in the near future as well, similar to SimCity 4's "Rush Hour" expansion, which expands the number of transport types and the role it plays in shaping your city).

On-Topic
If you're looking for solely a transport-business game, then I'm glad you've found Train Fever (I'll add that to my previous comment), as it is vastly superior to the Cities in Motion series in my opinion, despite having its own flaws.

To tell you the truth I still like SiM2 better City Skylines at this point. Because of the flexibility of the road,rail system and the detailed buildings that can mold into the terrain at any angle without seeing the zoning grid underneath it.

I don't see the appeal, everything you mentioned is either present or made better in C:SL. What specifically is it that makes you like CiM2 more? So far, C:SL seems to be a much deeper, more engaging and creative game than CiM2 ever was.
 
Last edited:
Off-Topic
Correction, C:SL is a city simulator, you do not just build buildings. The city has to simulate lots of variables which has an effect on every individual citizen simulated within the game, one of those being transport. The transport system in C:SL is almost exactly the same as CiM's in terms of setting up stations/stops, routes and depots (I also predict there to be a big transport expansion coming in the near future as well, similar to SimCity 4's "Rush Hour" expansion, which expands the number of transport types and the role it plays in shaping your city).

I don't see the appeal, everything you mentioned is either present or made better in C:SL. What specifically is it that makes you like CiM2 more? So far, C:SL seems to be a much deeper, more engaging and creative game than CiM2 ever was.

No, when you just want to focus on mass transit, CIM 2 is a better game since you dont have to deal with other city issues (power, water etc etc). It are two completely different games. But till now CIM 2 has more tools for making a perfect transit system. Until a 'rush hour' DLC, CIM 2 will be far better for a transportation game.

With regard to train fever and CIM 2 I dont know which I like more. CIM 2 is focused on inner transport and train fever on inter-city transport. When building trains/metros between villages Train Fever is much more fun. With regard to inner-city services I prefer CIM 2.
But since the perfomance issues are still killing the game I'll have to stay with CIM 2 :D.
 
I have both Train Fever and Cities in Motion 2, and train fever was definitely no replacement for CiM2. I can't be the only one.

TF is great when I want to play with intercity trains like a big train-set, but in CiM2 I'm building an urban transport system for a single large city, not a bunch of little towns. Sorry, but I just can't figure out why everyone says that TF replaces CiM2 when they are vastly different games. In CiM2, I'm creating Light Rail and BRT systems, monorails, realistic looking highways and freeways, and transit centers. Again, if I'm missing something from TF, please tell me.

This is of course ignoring the horrific performance problems of TF. I can't pan around the map or zoom in without TF freezing with nothing on the map, regardless of graphics settings. My framerate is over 60 fps if the camera is still. Meanwhile, I can play CiM2 with everything on Ultra except things like AO, AA, etc at 2560x1440 with a 300% population on even the largest cities with no issues.
 
No, Train-Fever cannot replace CIM2, it's a different game as you say. They have been steadily fixing the bugs (they've not got round to the zoom and pan bug yet), but at least they're still working on improving the game. That's my beef with CO, they have junked CIM2 to work on their next project. Will CSL eventually get the same treatment?
 
No, Train-Fever cannot replace CIM2, it's a different game as you say. They have been steadily fixing the bugs (they've not got round to the zoom and pan bug yet), but at least they're still working on improving the game. That's my beef with CO, they have junked CIM2 to work on their next project. Will CSL eventually get the same treatment?

I hope so. I like C:SL so far, but I would prefer a good successor of CIM2.
 
No, Train-Fever cannot replace CIM2, it's a different game as you say. They have been steadily fixing the bugs (they've not got round to the zoom and pan bug yet), but at least they're still working on improving the game. That's my beef with CO, they have junked CIM2 to work on their next project. Will CSL eventually get the same treatment?

I really think it's unfair to blame CO. They work on what Paradox tells them to. Mariina, CO's CEO, has said repeatedly that she would like to return to CiM2 and I believe someday they will; just not for the foreseeable future. CSL looks like it's going to be a real money maker and that might allow CO to hire staff for CiM2
 
I have both Train Fever and Cities in Motion 2, and train fever was definitely no replacement for CiM2. I can't be the only one.

TF is great when I want to play with intercity trains like a big train-set, but in CiM2 I'm building an urban transport system for a single large city, not a bunch of little towns. Sorry, but I just can't figure out why everyone says that TF replaces CiM2 when they are vastly different games. In CiM2, I'm creating Light Rail and BRT systems, monorails, realistic looking highways and freeways, and transit centers. Again, if I'm missing something from TF, please tell me.

When I am saying that Train Fever is a better game, I mean that it is a better transportation game generally speaking. I am not saying that it is better at solely simulating mass transportation within cities. I believe it is a replacement if you are seeking a good, solid, general transportation game where you are playing as a business. I'm not saying it doesn't have its own flaws, like the zooming bugs you mentioned, and problems with optimisation (personally, I'd go with Train Fever's performance issues over CiM2's simulation issues (e.g. passengers randomly disappearing or not boarding their vehicle, or large swathes of buildings randomly becoming small residential houses) any day). But as a transportation game, I believe it is superior to CiM2 (partially explained below).

No, when you just want to focus on mass transit, CIM 2 is a better game

But is CiM2 really a better "game" if you have it just focus solely on mass transportation within cities? If I were to compare the amount of time that the average player would actually spent time interacting with either game, I predict that you would see the average player would be more engaged with Train Fever than CiM2. My reasoning is that because Train Fever, as it is not solely relying on only one type of resource, has a lot of variety to choose from in terms of how they wish to play their game, which makes it more interesting. Could I focus on goods transportation, or passenger transportation? Should I do long-distance transportation, or focus on inner-city transportation? Whereas, over in CiM2, you can only choose what method of transportation you can do; buses, trams, trains, or boats? It doesn't really make much of a difference in how I'm going to play the game or manage the system because they all transport the same thing, but capacities/speed/cost are the variables which have an effect on how you wish to play; trains are too expensive, so I'm going for buses or trams instead.

To a lot of other people (this is based on general opinion and from reviews), CiM2 becomes a terribly tedious game when you try to boil down to only one type of transportation (inner-city) management, which feels like it was meant to be a smaller feature to a much larger game. I mean, you would think that a "mass transport business simulator", which only focuses on transporting one type of resource (people), would try to bring more management to the table focusing on just that one resource? How about having to build your stations from scratch? How about having to manage differing levels of transportation at certain times of the year (e.g. seasons, weather conditions, events finishing at certain locations which causes a massive influx of passengers at a particular times (e.g. football match ends))?

CiM2 is said to be at the top of inner-city service transport simulation genre, but why do you think that is? It's because there is no competition; no other game has tried to solely rely on inner-city transport services, other than Traffic Giant (but CiM is heavily inspired from this sort of gameplay to the point where CiM1 and CiM2 could be labelled as TG2 and TG3). Simutrans, as good as the game is, does not count; it doesn't solely rely on inner-city mass transport gameplay. I believe it's because the scope of the game will be severely limited to what you can do. To me, CiM2 would be a great game if the simulation had a lot more depth and you had to manage more than just your timetables (yawn) and routes (suggestions to make it more interesting and involving are in the above paragraph). That is what CiM3 needs to be, if CO ever go back to the series, which a part of me hopes they do. However, if they return and make minimal gameplay changes, I won't be interested.
 
Last edited:
I actually wonder, if you realize, that the Transport System in C:SL actually has nothing common with the one in CiM2. If anything it's a massively dumped down version of it.

You create a line by putting down the stops, it connects from stop to stop automatically. You plop a depot and the amount of vehicles is decided by Budget.

It's not even remotely similar to CiM2. Also, you should try out the CiM 2.5 rule-set from the marketplace if you haven't yet, makes the game a lot more enjoyable.
 
The transport in CSL is not based on on any of the CIM games, is taken directly from SimCity4 (SC4); as is the entire game! SimCity4 was far away the most successful city builder game, and although it now seems dated, it still has an enormous fan following today; CO have wisely decided to base their new CSL game on that. The extra diversity of transport now available in SC4 is the result of the efforts of dedicated modders, who produced the Network Add-on Mod (NAM).
 
Last edited:
I actually wonder, if you realize, that the Transport System in C:SL actually has nothing common with the one in CiM2. If anything it's a massively dumped down version of it.

You create a line by putting down the stops, it connects from stop to stop automatically. You plop a depot and the amount of vehicles is decided by Budget.

It's not even remotely similar to CiM2. Also, you should try out the CiM 2.5 rule-set from the marketplace if you haven't yet, makes the game a lot more enjoyable.

The transport in CSL is not based on on any of the CIM games, is taken directly from SimCity4 (SC4); as is the entire game! SimCity4 was far away the most successful city builder game, and although it now seems dated, it still has an enormous fan following today; CO have wisely decided to base their new CSL game on that. The extra diversity of transport now available in SC4 is the result of the efforts of dedicated modders, who produced the Network Add-on Mod (NAM).

I'm assuming that you two are replying to me (if not, then ignore this. To avoid confusion, use the "Reply With Quote" option). If so, maybe you should actually read my comment next time. I'm not talking about C:SL anymore, I'm talking about CiM2 itself, and a bit of Train Fever for comparison's sake.

Also, this is the last time I discuss anything relating to C:SL in this thread (besides saying that CiM2 has been abandoned due to its development), because this is OFF-TOPIC. Stop talking about this! When I said "move onto Cities: Skylines", I was just highlighting CO's next game, since they made CiM. But, your comments about transport being directly taken from SimCity 4 and not being "remotely similar" to CiM2 I believe are wrong.

Norfolk, on the bigger picture of transport's role in C:SL's gameplay, it is roughly the same, but are the systems which simulate transportation the same? No. For example, can you create routes manually in SC4? No, they are done automatically by the AI, and horribly at that. Can you create depots for where your trains/buses come from, like in CiM2? No, depots are not a feature in SC4. Does SC4 simulate each person's individual travelings from their home to their workplace? Sort of, but not in the same way; everything is simulated in real time in C:SL, SC4 recalculates after each simulated day/week/month/year.

KiznaCat, what you mentioned actually sounds similar to CiM2. Plopping down stops/stations, depots and connecting them via routes was around 50% of CiM2's gameplay. I am not saying that it is exactly the same, it's not, but saying that that isn't "remotely similar" is just illogical. All of the transportation currently in C:SL is borrowed directly from their experience with developing the CiM series, but they have decided to water down some of the extra details to make it less the sole-focus of the game. The only things C:SL doesn't have, which are present in CiM2, are trams as a transport type (and, considering the backlash from not including them, they may bring them into the game with a DLC/expansion), the ability to purchase/manage your own vehicles/employees (this is the biggest difference; the AI manages the number of vehicles and how well they work instead, depending how well you fund your depots), bus lanes (I think), timetables and marking transport zones.
 
Last edited:
I'm fine with them abandoning CiM2, it was a rather bland boring game. They need to focus on adding more CiM features to Skylines now. We can't even build a proper metro system as-is because there is no way to build a tunnel over/under another tunnel. All transit has a very poor amount of info/feedback in the game. The road building tools and options are lacking, give us a road designer like in CiM2. CiM2 is dead, but none of its body should go to waste, strip it to the bone to feed features into Skylines and leave the inedible or poisonous parts (like route timing system, fares) to rot.
 
Son: "Daddy, what is fascism?"
Father: "It's a horrible system of government, son."
Son: "But what does it do o_O ?"
Father: "Well, first, it releases songs on the Internet as downloadable content..."
Son: "But that is horrible!
Father: "Yes, it is. You can protest by writing angry posts demonstrating an attitude of entitlement, but thy will crack down on it brutally by not dignifying you with a response, so it's of little use."
Son: :sobs in horror:
 
I'm fine with them abandoning CiM2, it was a rather bland boring game. They need to focus on adding more CiM features to Skylines now. We can't even build a proper metro system as-is because there is no way to build a tunnel over/under another tunnel. All transit has a very poor amount of info/feedback in the game. The road building tools and options are lacking, give us a road designer like in CiM2. CiM2 is dead, but none of its body should go to waste, strip it to the bone to feed features into Skylines and leave the inedible or poisonous parts (like route timing system, fares) to rot.
Hey get real, sounds like 'pie in the sky' to me. So you want ALL the features of CSL, combined with ALL the features of CIM2 in the same game! Most people's PCs can just manage to to run one of the games reasonably well. To run a combined game would need a super computer, this would be well beyond the the average gamers budget! :eek:

PS: I don't think that CIM2 is "bland boring", otherwise I wouldn't be still be playing it!