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[Forum Game]Fallout Realism: Vault 191

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"It is true that congressman Mycroft expressed some sympathies for those who fought to restore democracy. He promised to spy, and therefore took a position of leadership in Scott's dictatorship. However I do not remember ever receiving any information that he had collected, and it could simply have been a gamble on both sides." says Swanson.

"Also like Congressman Alexander, I support that our first order of business is to make a constitution. The Libertarian Party can support the Constitution originally proposed by Congressman Alexander, and edited by Congressman Olbert, provided that we separate the security forces, who will serve the Congress and the Vault without any bias. It must be avoided that the Vault Security is once again sworn to blindly be obedient to an Overseer suffering from delusions and a hunger for power."
 
I certainly agree with those sentiments, however, it must be noted that Edward Mycroft is currently a congressmember, and thus has a part in deciding this constitution. Since we can not be certain of his loyalties without a trial, and we need a constitution to have a trial, it is simply uncontestable that Edward Mycroft can not be allowed to decide our future in these circumstances. Thus he should be suspended from congress.

And while the constitution is decent in weakening the power of the overseer, it creates a far worse problem with its creation of a judicial branch. These judges are appointed by the overseer, approved by congress, and then serve for life. Or perhaps not. The judicial articles are incredibly vague, and uninformative, which is unacceptable in a constitution. Assuming these judges do indeed serve for life, and there is nothing suggesting any kind of term limit for these judges, nor is there any way to remove these judges from power, then we are left with a group of 5 men and/or women who can dictate what congress can or can not do at a whim. We could conceivably have the same judges for decades, without a single vote from the common People playing into their appointment. Even if I were to grudgingly accept a constitution that merely was a mild improvement over the old order, this constitution is not an improvement, it is several steps back. One does not cure a concussion by wrapping a man's head in ice, then striking him in the neck.
 
My impression is that the judges were appointed by the Overseer, provided he had 2/3 of the Congress backing up the choice, and since I saw nothing that made the position for life, I simply assumed it would be until the Overseer decided to remove the judge from the Supreme Court, similar to any other person holding a regular non-political job.
 
Bialaska said:
"Also like Congressman Alexander, I support that our first order of business is to make a constitution. The Libertarian Party can support the Constitution originally proposed by Congressman Alexander, and edited by Congressman Olbert, provided that we separate the security forces, who will serve the Congress and the Vault without any bias. It must be avoided that the Vault Security is once again sworn to blindly be obedient to an Overseer suffering from delusions and a hunger for power."
Click to expand...

Congressman Swanson, can you explain your position more clearly? I do not understand your concept of separate security forces. Do you mean creating a Congressional Army and an Overseer Army? It would seem most unwise and highly inefficient.

If you meant to say the size of the military should be strictly controlled by Congress, then I would agree with you. However, stating the actual size of the military is something I do not think should be specified in a constitution; rather, it can be established via legislation from Congress.

~Congressman Michael Alexander, of the United Homesteaders
 
Bialaska said:
My impression is that the judges were appointed by the Overseer, provided he had 2/3 of the Congress backing up the choice, and since I saw nothing that made the position for life, I simply assumed it would be until the Overseer decided to remove the judge from the Supreme Court, similar to any other person holding a regular non-political job.
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Those are far too many assumptions to have towards a document that will decide the future of the Vault. The article relating to the judicial branch is absolutely unacceptable in its current state, since it is far too vague in what it creates, and how such an institution would be handled. I am simply shocked that so many support such an obviously flawed constitution, and further dismayed by the continued refusal of the congressmen behind this constitution to answer on this subject, or further explain what they intend for it to do.
 
What if this law was passed by the Congress with the passage of the Constitution? Would this satisfy you Congressman Swanson?


Military Control Act​

Article I

Congress shall have sole power over the size of the Armed Forces of Vault 191.

Article II

The current size of the Army of Vault 191 shall be one squad per level of the vault. Each squad shall not exceed 10 soldiers.

Article III

Section A
All members of the military, including the Head of Security, shall take an Oath of Allegiance.

Section B
The Oath of Allegiance shall be as follows: “I [state my name], do solemnly swear to preserve and defend the Constitution of Vault 191, Congress, and the citizenry of Vault 191. To this, I swear to uphold this oath.”
Click to expand...

~Michael Alexander, of the United Homesteaders
 
No, it would not satisfy me. I believe that the constitution should be where such matters were definied, not by a law. I could accept it if those articles were written into the Constitution, provided that the part of article two that specify the number of members of a squad is removed, and possible also the number of squads. Both of those matters should be chosen by congress on a basis of events. Also the Allegiance oath should be to preserve and defend the laws and the constitution of the Vault, not just the Constitution.
 
lordmichael95 said:
My friends in Congress, I believe some of you are forgetting the purpose of the recent congressional elections. They were held to ensure that this Congress speedily adopt a constitution to protect the citizens of our vault. But now I am hearing, more and more, the call for trials, or at least according to my Communist friend Congressman John Foucalt, “an execution after a fair trial”.

Congressman Edward Mycroft may very well be guilty of crimes against our vault, but he also may very well be innocent. But we will not know for sure until the trial is held. So I ask you, how can a trial be held against this man, or any man, when there is not a constitution to protect the individual from the abuses of government?

And so it seems to me that the plan of action for our Congress should be as follows:

1) Adopt a constitution for our great vault

2) Fill any vacant government positions required in and by our new Constitution

3) Begin trials against supposed criminals.

On a concluding note, I would also like to remind my fellow Congressman that treason is a serious charge and should not be thrown about freely; because once it does, it becomes very difficult to draw the line. For example, I know from reports from the soldiers that escorted Khan to a prison cell that he personally dropped off a letter to Congresswoman Jenna Rockefeller. Perhaps she is secretly working for Overseer Scott? Even if this Congress asked her to produce this letter, by now she could easily falsify such letter to make it appear harmless. Perhaps she herself should be brought up on charges of treason. And then, let us not forget that Congressman from the CVR, UTVE, VTP, and Explorer party all helped Congressman Scott gain power to the Office of the Overseer; who has gotten off Scott free. Quite a few of these Congressmen currently reside in this Congress. Perhaps these men should be tried for treason as well?

So let this Congress focus on making a constitution, something it has been charged to do by the People.

~Congressman Michael Alexander, of the United Homesteaders
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You don't speak for the people, you are not the sum embodiment of their voice. This Congress is, and you do not speak for it either. Do not condescend to presume that YOU decide what this Congress does, you are neither its organizer nor its planner. You do not decide, solely, what is to be discussed, neither are you responsible for what is most important to this Congress. This Congress, as a whole, decides those things. I have heard no outcry from the people that "we MUST have a Constitution". That is because no such outcry has happened. The people have charged us with nothing but the trust that we will make speedy and efficient decisions, s far as I am concerned.

Before YOU go around singularly deciding what the purpose of Congressional Elections and what the Course of this Congress should be, why don't you take the time to think about the fact that you are in no way a leader of this Congress, just a member of it.

~ Nathan Armstrong
 
Name: Che Lenin
Age: 26
Political Party: People's Party
Profession: Journalist
Bio: Long a supporter of the Vault First Party, Che became disillusioned with the Party after the coup. During the ensuing chaos, he became infatuated with the People's Party, a party that promised real equality for all in the form of fundamental change.
 
Nova Roma February 11th-20th 2290​

In the Northern Central Park Station people were hard at work. The Princeps celebrating his victory against all the odds ordered his minions to begin work on changing to identity of his state making it more Roman with every passing day. He creates new offices and creates a senate made from the members of the most prominent families to join him. He has the senate vote to make him Princep for life further cementing his rule over the group. He also instructs all of his officers to take Roman names and has the weapons found in the station given to his praetorian guard which put them to good use defending their emperor.

Slavko who decided to take the Roman name Bulbus had already proven himself a more then capable commander receives orders from the Princeps. He moves two centuria into the metro lines and has them start setting up barricades in order to prevent any further incursions by feral ghouls. This proves a wise move as several ferals are shot as they come towards the Roman lines. In addition to this he sends the first centuria up to the surface from there they begin to explore the buildings around the metro station. They find most are uninhabited however a few house some squatters who are promptly rounded up and sent back to the station to be enslaved. In addition to this the men find some food as well as a few books and some knives and other pointy objects which they take for themselves in case they ever need them in close combat.

While the centuria is out there they see what seems to be a major caravan coming right down their street stopping them they inform them of the settlement down in the station. The trader a man claiming to be from some far off place called Jersey offers to trade with them however when they fail to produce something called a cap in exchange for his goods he shrugs them off and continues his travels.

The elderly ex-congressmen continues to make his way towards a full recovery and is significally cheared when he recieves news that the Princep has appointed him his consul he agrees to take the name Cassius Scipius Arius in recognition of the Princep. A new character begins working to make his name known within the new state. He is a man by the name of Rick James who had recently received a title from the Princeps himself. Under Lucius's (Louis became Lucius) direction he establishes a work detail with several of the citizens and has them begin scavenging old scrap metal along with wood and bricks from the surface. Bringing them back down to the metro they begin creating small shelters for themselves and their families allowing for some small amount of privacy in the metro. There is also an attempt to set up an agricultural system however in the dead of winter with the ground frozen this is not simple task and as all of the vaulters have no concept of basic agriculture the attempt falls flat on its face. Similarly an attempt to scavenge gun making equipment results in a shootout between several legionnaires and some raiders.

Back home in the vault the influence of Lucius can still be felt. A congressmen by the name of Markus Fitzwell manages to break Danijela Novak and the deserter Khan out of the Union Headquarters. Then masking their faces he miraculously manages to sneak them up three levels and gets them to the surface. From there he distracts the guards by ordering them to patrol around the restaurant and then taking his refugees manages to sneak them out into New York City. From there Khan takes over leading them to the apartment complex where he was last held however no one is there so they decide to follow a newer fresher set of tracks which takes them to the North Central Park station. Danijela is greeted with a heroes welcome however it remains to be seen how the traitor Khan and how the newcomer Markus will be recieved.

[stuff stuff will edit in]
 
The atmosphere of the Vault was begining to change, and in a direction that would not favor Markus for much longer. He decided, sitting in the Congressional chambers and listening to the heated discussion between the Congressmen, to excellerate his planned exodus. Several of his agents, informants, and associates had already accumulated the supplies he would need out in the world. All that remained was to secure the release of Danjiela Novak and Khan. The two of them would be crucial to Markus' survival, and essential in gaining favor with the Princep once he returned to the fold. Apart from all that, Markus was not about to let either of them be executed for supporting the Coup when he was in a position to prevent it.

His original plan had called for the rescue of many more of the prisoners, though time and concealment became a priority, forcing Markus to focus his efforts on Novak and Khan. The remaining patriots, particularly Novak's soldiers, must remain behind. Their sacrifice weighed heavily on Markus' heart, but as he put his plan into motion, he mustered up the focus needed to complete the task before him. His authority as Congressman and his prowess as a con man worked flawlessly together, allowing him to trick the guards at the makeshift prison as well as any guards they encountered on their way out of the Vault. Their escape had gone without a hitch, though no doubt the repercussions would be felt in the Vault very soon. Markus was just glad he would not be around to answer for the chaos he had engineered.

Khan, for all his excentricities, had proved just as valuable as Markus had anticipated, leading their party through this new and strange world to a set of apartment buildings. The buildings themselves were deserted, though signs of life lingered, obviously indicating that at one point many people had taken up shelter there. A short time later, they discovered the tracks that would lead them to Nova Roma. What Markus saw was far grander than he'd imagined it would be. The Princeps had wasted no time making his vision a reality. Markus knew the moment he arrived in the Metro that Nova Roma would offer him far more than the Vault ever could. In a way, he had rescued himself as much as Novak and Khan.

Mirroring his first steps once he'd undertaken his ambitious plan, Markus decided to speak to the masses, though this time instead of addressing the fearful citizens of Vault 191 in the wake of tragedy, he stood in front of the hopeful men and women of Nova Roma, newly invigorated by the return of their fellows thought lost.

"My friends, it warms my heart to be amongst you once more, and to see you all not just well, but flourishing. I come before you a humble servant of the Princeps. Lost amidst the chaos and confusion brought on by the bloody savages that drove you from your homes, I lingered in the Vault, awaiting clarity of purpose. And then a vision befell me, and I knew it was my duty, in service of Nova Roma, to liberate her children from the clutches of her enemies. I did so, risking life and limb to bring my friends to safety."

Markus wrapped one arm each around Danijela and Khan, playing up his love and compassion for the pair of them.

"I come with knowledge as well. Knowledge of the state of the Vault since you left it. Without the guiding and loving hand of our beloved Princeps, the Vault we once called home is no more than a rats nest, infested with vile creatures clamoring for power and prestige. None more ravenously so than the traitor Edward Mycroft! He has confessed his sins and crimes gladly! He claims that he accepted the gracious appointment of Secundus, only so that he may undermine and betray us. The snake has shed his skin, and is once more welcome among his venomous brethren."

Markus had gotten swept up in his own speech, moving around and captivating his audience with vivid imagery and detail. He'd learned from the populous in his short time in Nova Roma that many had begun adopting Roman persona, starting with the Princeps, now called Lucius Claudius Agrippa. He decided that would be as good a place as any to finish his speech.

"I humbly offer myself in service to the Princeps, and hope that he will find in his infinite wisdom and compassion a place for me among the people of this beautiful society. In the spirit of Nova Roma, I request to be henceforth known as Marcus Caepasius Gracchus."
 
My fellow Vaulters, I change my views, we must pass this Constitution, we must abide by Mr. Alexander's course for now. Why the sudden change in course? Because we have been betrayed again. Our people have been betrayed, again. We need unity, we need decisive action, we need a Congress that will unite us once and for all! We need righteous action that will take us forward! We need leadership that understands the needs and desires of all of us, and is willing to sacrifice everything to achieve our goals, not their own selfish interests! We need to purge the cancer infesting us. I propose that unless the Commanders that so recently escaped, leaving their loyal, though misguided, soldiers behind, return, we execute said soldiers, and use their armor and weaponry to protect ourelves from our own murderous brethren. This may seem extreme, but so to are our enemies.

~ Nathan Armstrong, Congressman
 
Congressman Armstrong is correct that this is now a desperate time, and he is correct in wishing to end the potential threat other soldiers hold against us, but he is wrong that we must now accept this constitution. This constitution is still highly flawed, and to rush headlong into it will only hurt us in the long run, not prepare us for the hardships ahead. This event has shown that we can not trust even those we have voted into power. We must suspend all congressmen who we are not certain we can trust. Edward Mycroft is chief among them. Those who can be trusted should then draft a constitution to protect the People and make sure further treason is never allowed to pass. We must stand firm against the encroachment of tyranny, for we now know that we are no longer safe and among only friends here, some still harbor traitorous thoughts to assist the Tyrant. We must be ever vigilant and prepared, no more letting down our guard to those who would do us harm.
 
Let's make a formal tally of it. Congressmen, please formalize your vote either in Approval, or Rejection, of the so called Alexanderian Constitution. Once the base Document is either agreed to or dismissed, we can either propose new legislature, or make amendments to the Constitution.

Approve:
[X] ~ Nathan Armstrong, Congressman

[X] - Steve C. Olbert, Congressman; and Party

[]


Opponents to Progress, Proponents to Stagnation:
[X] - John Foucalt, Congressman and Engineer

[X] - Donald Swanson, Congressman (and probably some sort of criminal)

[X] - Jenna Rockefeller, Congresswoman

[]
 
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This truly is a glorious day! Danijela is a heroine of Nova Roma, and our survival can be almost single-handedly be traced to her actions. I humbly suggest to the Princeps that she is instated as the Secundus immediately. This valiant newcomer, the hero Gracchus, should be instated in the position of Censor- he has proven himself loyal and capable to the Empire.

I would pose certain... questions to Khan, however- where has he been? What happened to him? Where are the men he lost, and how did he get involved in this prison break?

-Signed, Consul Cassius Scipius Arius of the Republic of Nova Roma, former Archivist of the Vault.
 
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Rovsea said:
Let's make a formal tally of it. Congressmen, please formalize your vote either in Approval, or Rejection, of the so called Alexanderian Constitution. Once the base Document is either agreed to or dismissed, we can either propose new legislature, or make amendments to the Constitution.

Approve:
[X] ~ Nathan Armstrong, Congressman

[]


Reject:
[]
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I Reject the alexander constitution for its continuous problem with the judicial amendment and failure of any party to justify it.
 
aedan777 said:
I Reject the alexander constitution for its continuous problem with the judicial amendment and failure of any party to justify it.
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Congressman, I'd like to remind you that it is entirely possible to change the Constitution, once it is enacted, and indeed, I hope for an amending period shortly after it's acceptance (if that actually happens :angry:) where grievances can be heard, and necessary changes made.

~ Nathan Armstrong, Congressman
 
I accept this constitution, and I am sure the members of the UTVE would as well. I also propose we amend the judicial Article as our first action if we are elected.

- Steve C. Olbert
 
Rovsea said:
Congressman, I'd like to remind you that it is entirely possible to change the Constitution, once it is enacted, and indeed, I hope for an amending period shortly after it's acceptance (if that actually happens :angry:) where grievances can be heard, and necessary changes made.

~ Nathan Armstrong, Congressman
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What is the point of accepting a constitution we know is flawed with the basis of 'we'll change it later'? And might I remind you that by the constitution as it is, the judges can block any legislation they feel like, which could very well be the case against laws that would limit their power.
 
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