Varangian Guard packed up and went home

Maggnuss · Nov 23, 2014

I was playing as the Isaurii ,in CM start, fighting the Abbasids. Right before my ruler died, a viceroyalty reverted to me so I had 2 vassal over the limit. Upon death, 3 declared their independence.

One was the varangian guard - All the mercs went back to Sweden and I couldn't re-vassalise them in any way.

There's no way this is working as intended, right?

Lord Curlyton · Nov 23, 2014

First, why didn't you pause and give the viceroyalty back away so you weren't over the limit? Second, since they are technically a vassal, they would be eligible, though I think that's an oversight, as I'm sure it was meant to only be landed vassals (if you'd landed the guard, then that's your own fault).

Donelloth · Nov 23, 2014

That certainly seems to be a bug. You should at the very least be able to re-vassalize them. I'd report it to the bug forum.

monsteronastick · Nov 23, 2014

All holy orders are considered vassals. This includes the Templars if you vassalize them, for instance.

NewbieOne · Nov 23, 2014

monsteronastick said:
All holy orders are considered vassals. This includes the Templars if you vassalize them, for instance.

Yes, but household merc bands probably aren't meant to be capable of becoming independent like that, especially not the Varangians.

eeore · Nov 23, 2014

How much did they like you?

I'll wager not a lot, hence they opt for independence.

Kalarhan · Nov 23, 2014

NewbieOne said:
Yes, but household merc bands probably aren't meant to be capable of becoming independent like that, especially not the Varangians.

alternative history.

Bad emperor cant keep the empire together -> time to pack ours things and go home

Cetan · Nov 23, 2014

eeore said:
How much did they like you?

I'll wager not a lot, hence they opt for independence.

They never like you if you form them early; they're Norse cultured and Germanic religion. Toss in a zealous and they'll be -100.

eeore · Nov 23, 2014

Cetan said:
They never like you if you form them early; they're Norse cultured and Germanic religion. Toss in a zealous and they'll be -100.

So is it any wonder that they upped and left?

This is an example of the game working as intended and the OP just not liking that results of poor decisions.

Cetan · Nov 23, 2014

eeore said:
So is it any wonder that they upped and left?

This is an example of the game working as intended and the OP just not liking that results of poor decisions.

Yes, I think it is a wonder that the Emperor's personal guard up and left because of an oversight on Paradox's part. (Especially since they're Christian in 1066.)

Evil Crusader · Nov 23, 2014

Well, this is honestly a bit miffing; I've had whole Patrician families desert me (becoming regular landed feudals, nonetheless) because of an untimely death.
While I freely acknowledge it was my fault and I don't seek 'reparations', I still think it should be somewhat averted.
There are scenarios where this doesn't really make sense.

OxfordNik · Nov 23, 2014

Paradox really ought to add "can be independent?"-type value to title properties, to prevent both the sort of independence OP has run into (which seems pretty buggy, no matter how "logical" it might seem in the circumstances), and the reported Patrician independence (which would surely crash any Republic game?).

Yvanoff · Nov 23, 2014

or you should simply be able to re-vassalize them by decision. I believe Jerusalem can do that with their holy orders.

eeore said:
So is it any wonder that they upped and left?

This is an example of the game working as intended and the OP just not liking that results of poor decisions.

no, the varagian guard shouldn't be running independant in the world. You should be able to re vassalize them. an independant varagian guard makes no sense.
it would be any other vassal which would have gone independant, I'd agree with you. But notice that the OP doesn't question the feature, while 2 others vassals went independant. It's just that the varagian guard shouldn't go independant without any possibility of getting them back

eeore · Nov 23, 2014

They are not slaves are they?

Anastasius · Nov 23, 2014

my_work_here_is_done_poster-r89a3d08aa20546ca8c29fdb3e93ca11e_wad_8byvr_324.jpg

Cetan · Nov 23, 2014

eeore said:
They are not slaves are they?

Nor are they specific certain people.

If the Emperor's personal guard up and disappears... he is more than capable of making a new Emperor's personal guard.

Itphings_Monk · Nov 23, 2014

I was reading about the guard and sounds like they were extremely loyal to the emperor. They apparently swore their life to the emperor while they were in the guard and that culture took life swearing fealty really seriously. They would protect the position of emperor with their life, although it was more to the title and not an specific person. As in if someone was trying to kill the emperor with their life they would protect him with their lives but if he died they would swear fealty to the new guy, as there was no point of revenge for a dead guy. So it seems like this is a bug or oversight.

Thrake · Nov 23, 2014

eeore said:
So is it any wonder that they upped and left?

This is an example of the game working as intended and the OP just not liking that results of poor decisions.

Seriously? They should hate the Emperor because of culture and religion? Any vassal should hate his liege for that reason, but merc band. Mercs are almost by design from foreign culture; historically, it didn't prevented Italia from using loads of Scandinavian mercs, nor the ERE to have a similar royal guard. There should be a positive modifier for being vassal merc to negate those from culture/religion really. In case of the ERE, it was even by design to have foreigners as royal guard, so that they wouldn't have much to do in political affairs, so representing it with an heavy opinion penalty feels wrong.

I don't know wether they should be able to break free or not; there is nothing stopping them from being just a merc band after all, but in anyway, there should be a mean to vassalize them again.

6NGB · Nov 23, 2014

While the title holder to resign from it and go away is ok, the title should remain as a basileus' vassal. See Harold Hardrada for example. This remarkable guy was varangian commander, Russian knyaz, founder of Oslo as Norse king and at the end he died at Stamford bridge as English claimant. All of this in a single life. At a time when for the most of the people the world ended right after the next village, he was everywhere in Europe. So though somehow possible this is a bug.

NewbieOne · Nov 23, 2014

Kalarhan said:
alternative history.

Bad emperor cant keep the empire together -> time to pack ours things and go home

Alternative history is not fiction. It's not everything goes. Outcomes can, of course, and even should be different, depending on what alternative paths are pursued, but the mechanics, typical processes, general truths etc. should all be preserved.

Thrake said:
Seriously? They should hate the Emperor because of culture and religion? Any vassal should hate his liege for that reason, but merc band. Mercs are almost by design from foreign culture; historically, it didn't prevented Italia from using loads of Scandinavian mercs, nor the ERE to have a similar royal guard. There should be a positive modifier for being vassal merc to negate those from culture/religion really. In case of the ERE, it was even by design to have foreigners as royal guard, so that they wouldn't have much to do in political affairs, so representing it with an heavy opinion penalty feels wrong.

I don't know wether they should be able to break free or not; there is nothing stopping them from being just a merc band after all, but in anyway, there should be a mean to vassalize them again.

'Vassal mercs' are a simplification. The 'vassal' is not a real duke but a glorified captan of (hired) guards. He's not into local communities and etnomyths etc. — although religious and cultural differences obviously may affect mutual opinion and interactions — he's there to fight for payment.

Varangian Guard packed up and went home

Sergeant

General

Filthy Cathar

Second Lieutenant

Field Marshal

Second Lieutenant

Captain

Colonel

Second Lieutenant

Colonel

Captain

Captain

Europa Europa über alles

Second Lieutenant

Colonel

Colonel

First Lieutenant

Inveterate Piggy Stabber

Sergeant

Field Marshal