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SergeantPunch

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I am wondering about this as in I assume if you have enemy units surrounded so that they have no tile that they can retreat to they quickly run out of supplies. In my invasion of the soviet union this seems to have been the case in other encirclements but in the marsh land of Belarus they don't seem to be running out of supplies even though once they were encircled they as usual went a bit banana trying to break out or get broken out lol. This is a particularly large encirclement though. I delayed my invasion of Russia by a year more than I needed and I didn't feel strong enough to do it but I am doing it for historical reasons I guess. I think it's madness though! lol

yeah another issue is that Hungary never joined me but joined with the Soviets so I had to invade them as well which delayed by invasion of Russia and forced me to fight both at the same time. I think they were supposed to join the Axis? So annoying.

I have screen shots, Is there an easy way to post them here?

Probably too big or won't work...

33n9ljo.jpg
 
2zyd10n.jpg


There is an envelopment penalty of 10% but no out of supply penalty at all even though they have been surrounded for I guess at least 2 weeks.

and a nice further out view

rhoop3.jpg


I need to reload an old save to get a screen shot of an older envelopment. I must have captured up to about 60 soviet units like this or more. There is about 30 units in the above screen shot. Another big one netted me 25, a more recent one another 5 or 6 and there was another big one at the start that got me at least 10.

This was 28 units I think in total, maybe more.

29lmgif.jpg


They ran out of supplies in that one unlike the one in the opening post.
 
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It doesn't appear the Italians and Romanians want to venture onto german controlled territory to help , I am wondering why this is? Do I need to change from collaboration government to something else like full economic exploitation?
 
Each division carries a 30-day supply of its own. I believe that any IC-province creates a tiny bit of supplies of its own. Those two together might be the cause. I would bomb them for a week or two, then try sending in the troops again. Just don't log bomb them, because you'll need to get into the provinces to clean them out.
 
Pace is HUGELY important for any encirclement. all the units have a 30 day supply but they'll also have the supply that is still in the pocket there. Log bombing will reduce this but they're still going to have supply for a long time after you complete the encirclement. The big reason why its important for it is to destroy the units. You can either keep attacking them and take advantage of their lack of ability to regain org easily or you'll have to hold the perimeter for a couple months probably before they start feeling the lack of supplies. Probably with a lot less troops as the majority of them in this second case would just have to be on the russian side of the pocket. Even if they break through to the homelands there is no way they'll have the fuel to make it that far.
 
Those are some very interesting numbers..

First, are you 100% certain your on normal supply, and not Arcade? (I always run Arcade, since I think the supply model is FUBAR....)

And how do you only have 500 Manpower in 1942. That seems really low. Have you been cranking out the Infantry?
 
Leadfingers said:
Those are some very interesting numbers..

First, are you 100% certain your on normal supply, and not Arcade? (I always run Arcade, since I think the supply model is FUBAR....)

And how do you only have 500 Manpower in 1942. That seems really low. Have you been cranking out the Infantry?
Click to expand...

I don't think I made more infantry than I should. I have about 1.2 plus million men in the invasion force and there is over 20 tank divisions. Maybe I should have built some more panzer divisions but I will make a count and give you an exact figure. I only had about 800k in total. I don't think I ever had more than 900k. Dropped to about 600k after france and took a long time to recover in the year and a half I waited to get back to 800k. I researched argriculture, first aid etc. I am pretty sure it's normal supply, the only setting I changed was the difficulty. I will double check that.

On a side note I have 3 divisions of paratroopers which are really useful. I think they could be invaluable in beating back an allied invasion in the west. So I am building a further 4 divisions of them. Should have 7 of them before the end of 43 lol.

Another odd thing is that in late 41 Canada launched a decent sized invasion in belgium and took quite a bit of effort to stop and diverted my aircraft from russia. My invaluable CAS was out of action for a while on account of this. I think I have 14 units of CAS in total. I found them extremely effective against the British in North africa even more than in russia. But both the CAS and paratroopers are life savers. The transports as well even though I only have two they help with units in low supply and yet another crisis to address.
 
misterbean said:
Each division carries a 30-day supply of its own. I believe that any IC-province creates a tiny bit of supplies of its own. Those two together might be the cause. I would bomb them for a week or two, then try sending in the troops again. Just don't log bomb them, because you'll need to get into the provinces to clean them out.
Click to expand...

I eventually cleaned them out slowly and by mid February the pocket was closed and some of the units I faced ended with supply issues but mostly it was disappointingly bloodly. I don't like to have my manpower sapped and I am keeping an eye on the manpower reserve. But still quite a lot of soviet units taken out of the game which is good. I am continuing a policy of encirclement rather than advancing towards war goals because I don't think I am strong enough.
 
Another very important question.. Why won't Romania and Italy help!! They were all ready and then when I captured territory they just stopped lol, So annoying, I could do with their manpower badly.

Thoughts on the progress so far in this game.

The Soviet attack I did reluctantly and I knew would be difficult. I expect if I win it won't be until near the end of 43. But maybe if I can keep making more damaging encirclement movements I can sap the soviets dry. They are already moving troops from the Persia border to deal with a break through in southern Ukraine.

Hungary not joining me and it was supposed to be an event? It never happened and they spoiled my attack on the Soviet Union! This was a big delay not to mention having to actually fight them.

The invasion of the low countries and France was tough. They didn't make the same mistakes as in reality and had the Ardennes well defended. It took me nearly 6 months to defeat them. Invaded Denmark afterwards as it's an obvious staging area for the allies and I don't think Norway is as important.

Got Nationalist Spain and Portugal to join the Axis. Sharing infantry tech with Spain, and maybe arty as well I dunno. I may need their help later.

Waited a while before asking Japan to join the war (and the other eastern axis members) but when they did I have been really lucky. They have completely destroyed the Russians in the east and have been making good progress against the British.

Italy in greece are bogged down and it's a danger I must deal with before America enters the war. The British bombing rome so I sent interceptors to guard against that. In north africa is swings back and forth with my CAS single handedly halting a dangerous British advance against routing Italians. I have a Corps there now, not led by Rommel as I have more interesting things for him to do in Russia. I just plan to seize the suez canal and halt there if possible. Or just hold the British if just that.

America hasn't joined the war yet... that is another bit of luck. I wonder if using diplomatic influence on them will delay this or is it a waste of leader power?

and yeah screen shot of beautiful Japan. I haven't played them yet... then against I haven't played too much either. Only completed one game with the Soviets.

30iw4zt.jpg
 
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If you haven't given the Italians and Romanians objectives, they might or might not decide to assist. Click on a province, and there should be a small arrow in the lower right-hand corner. Clicking that should bring up a set of country icons. Pick an ally and they'll have an objective to either defend around that province if it's yours, or attack it if it belongs to an opponent.

Encirclement battles can be annoying, but less annoying than fighting those same units 5-6 more times after you push them back. They're gone now, and it costs a lot more time and IC to replace them than to repair them. I've done encirclements of 20-30 divisions on numerous occasions, and in one game I managed to bag nearly half the French army in and around Metz.

In my current (and about to become "previous") game, I've made several slightly more modest pockets of 5-10 Soviet divisions at a time, while playing Hungary, and have just cut off another dozen-plus in the Caucasus by taking Astrakhan(sp?) and the provinces from there to the Caspian Sea. Sadly for me, the UK dropped about a dozen or so divisions in France, and there were only 2 German combat divisions and 30-40 HQs (most of which should be near their combat divisions in the East) to oppose them in all of France, so Germany redeployed half its army from the Eastern Front to the West. The Soviets are now pouring through the gaping holes in the German "dashed lines" in multiple places. Another game on the rocks due to insipid AI behavior.
 
Kovax said:
If you haven't given the Italians and Romanians objectives, they might or might not decide to assist. Click on a province, and there should be a small arrow in the lower right-hand corner. Clicking that should bring up a set of country icons. Pick an ally and they'll have an objective to either defend around that province if it's yours, or attack it if it belongs to an opponent.

Encirclement battles can be annoying, but less annoying than fighting those same units 5-6 more times after you push them back. They're gone now, and it costs a lot more time and IC to replace them than to repair them. I've done encirclements of 20-30 divisions on numerous occasions, and in one game I managed to bag nearly half the French army in and around Metz.

In my current (and about to become "previous") game, I've made several slightly more modest pockets of 5-10 Soviet divisions at a time, while playing Hungary, and have just cut off another dozen-plus in the Caucasus by taking Astrakhan(sp?) and the provinces from there to the Caspian Sea. Sadly for me, the UK dropped about a dozen or so divisions in France, and there were only 2 German combat divisions and 30-40 HQs (most of which should be near their combat divisions in the East) to oppose them in all of France, so Germany redeployed half its army from the Eastern Front to the West. The Soviets are now pouring through the gaping holes in the German "dashed lines" in multiple places. Another game on the rocks due to insipid AI behavior.
Click to expand...

Oh right, nice to know that. I have a major problem with supplies and I have to admit I don't understand it very well. I made a rapid advance in southern ukraine with a large force and they just couldn't get supplied and I don't know why. The infrastructure seems okay but I just decided to retreat a bit and redeploy and just plan another encirclement elseware and hope supplies with be better than southern and eastern Ukraine.
 
oh right, I am learning about the supply issue from the "supply from guts" thread. I guess partizan activity is the issue. My noobiness is learning. I wonder if there is a way I can get romania and italy to guard my supply lines?
 
nets15 said:
Build some MP divisions. They have high supression so the supply lines should stay free of partisans.
Click to expand...

Oh okay, so how many and do you place them in important locations. btw I changed to arcade mode (didn't know what it was previously) and supplies no longer a problem :D So then I captured moscow and pretty easily winning against the USSR and only a matter of time before their defeat.
 
Remember, that also goes for your enemies. No more cutting their supply lines either.
 
misterbean said:
Remember, that also goes for your enemies. No more cutting their supply lines either.
Click to expand...

Their encircled troops were better supplied than my army further south after a month of fighting on normal mode. I would have had to retreat in the south but the drive for Moscow would have been on. On arcade it's quite easy. I have them bled dry from all the encircling and my spies calculate they only have 600k manpower left not much more than me.
 
A few things to remember about the supply issue:

Moving directly toward or away from your source of supply works, because it doesn't change the path the supplies are taking. Moving laterally across those lines of supply creates a new supply line, meaning that all of the supplies already on their way get sent back to your capital and rerouted via the new supply line. Those provinces in the Ukraine may be "off angle" enough to force supply line reroutes whenever you advance.

Those techs on the "Theory" tab for Supply and Civil Defense are important, with the first two affecting supply "tax" through each province and the maximum through-put, and the third improving the repair speed of ships, aircraft, infrastructure, factories, etc.

MPs have good Partisan suppression (3 base suppression, plus tech boosts) to improve supply through-put, but can't fight any Partisans which do spawn. Fortunately, they'll run away automatically, so you generally don't lose them. I find that a single TAC can cover a huge area and disorganize any Partisan units (you can even redeploy it to any friendly airfield, and the ORG hit for redeploying won't matter), then any other unit can "mop up" with no resistance (a lone CAV brigade is excellent for this job). I often place a single GAR brigade (2 suppression) in important provinces (capitals, high VP locations, or other places you can't afford to lose), more (such as 2xGAR+AA) in major ports, and a lone MP in a few of the really high Resource provinces (anything less than 10 points of resources might not even pay for the supplies for the MP). MIL is a slightly cheaper approach than CAV for Partisan whacking, but has 0 suppression and is slower, but if the Partisan unit is already De-ORG'ed by TAC bombing, then speed probably doesn't matter, because the Partisan unit is stuck in place, and you can Strategically Redeploy the MIL (or GAR) to wherever it's needed and simply wait out the attack delay.
 
I think that must be it, it must be a re routing issue that is or was working through the system because units in areas that were previously in good supply all of a sudden had terrible supply just a little further north (second map in my second post) I advanced a little bit in the south into the crimea and towards that big river barrier and then right there supplies went crazy bad. I changed to arcade mode, either that or retreat.

I don't think taking territory is the most important but I realise encirclement can and if you keep doing it over and over reduce the soviets to nothing and you can then advance deeper in with very weak resistance. I am getting this right now.
 
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