Question about the Administration Laws

cl4yn4tion · Oct 20, 2014

Have been playing Charlemagne for almost a week now (and loving it btw) and I just discovered that the new Administration laws were a thing. Though I don't have access to them (or will for some time. Majesty 5 and Max CA still needed), I have some questions about how they operate. I'm playing as HRE right now, so are these laws ERE only or do all empires get these laws eventually? Or are they just there to taunt us. Also What makes Imperial Administration different from having all the Viceroy laws? Does it allow for both ducal and king level viceroys at the same time, or do normal viceroy laws allow for that? Does having Imperial Administration activated give you the ability for revocation of ducal (or possibly king) level viceroy without opinion hit, or is that power still only for ERE and Restored Rome?

If Imperial Administration works as I think (and hope) that it does, then if you had maze crown authority, free investiture, max centralization and imperial administration, is it possible to play as if your realm, sort of, didn't have feudalism above county level, were duke and king level titles were appointed instead of inherited?

miguellima · Oct 20, 2014

I'm playing as CM too and i'm hoping for this "MAX crown authority, free investiture(dunno about this one, i have the pope vassalized so what's the diff?), max centralization and imperial administration"

cl4yn4tion · Oct 20, 2014

I listed free investiture because it went along with the theme of "Emperor appoints everyone". Even if I visualized the Pope, I would still have to ask for papal approval of bishop appointments. Besides, afaik contorting the pope gives little benefit. Wish controlling the pope gave you more power than it did, such as being able to declare crusade targets, control how gets excommunicated etch.

theStormWeaver · Oct 20, 2014

cl4yn4tion said:
I listed free investiture because it went along with the theme of "Emperor appoints everyone". Even if I visualized the Pope, I would still have to ask for papal approval of bishop appointments. Besides, afaik contorting the pope gives little benefit. Wish controlling the pope gave you more power than it did, such as being able to declare crusade targets, control how gets excommunicated etch.

You can tax the Pope, so ALL Catholic bishops pay you, even if indirectly. How is that not awesome?

cl4yn4tion · Oct 20, 2014

theStormWeaver said:
You can tax the Pope, so ALL Catholic bishops pay you, even if indirectly. How is that not awesome?

I was unaware of that fact..... I now have a new goal in life

Silver Wizard · Oct 20, 2014

Actually, with the pope as vassal it might be smarter to have papal investiture. Without the opinion boni bishops are more likely to pay to the pope, that way you end up with more taxes as it goes through less hands and the tax levels for feudal vassals are generally lower.

One thing i've been wondering about is this: what if you inherit the ERE while already being an emperor, will you get imp. adm.?

theStormWeaver · Oct 20, 2014

Silver Wizard said:
Actually, with the pope as vassal it might be smarter to have papal investiture. Without the opinion boni bishops are more likely to pay to the pope, that way you end up with more taxes as it goes through less hands and the tax levels for feudal vassals are generally lower.

One thing i've been wondering about is this: what if you inherit the ERE while already being an emperor, will you get imp. adm.?

Only in de jure Byzantium, or if you make ERE your primary and destroy the other imperial titles.
Not 100% sure on that second part.

Lord Roivas · Oct 20, 2014

If you inherited Byzantium, you'd be much better off making ERE your primary title, solely for the massive vassal limit increase and the viceroyalties.

greywizard86 · Oct 20, 2014

cl4yn4tion said:
I listed free investiture because it went along with the theme of "Emperor appoints everyone". Even if I visualized the Pope, I would still have to ask for papal approval of bishop appointments. Besides, afaik contorting the pope gives little benefit. Wish controlling the pope gave you more power than it did, such as being able to declare crusade targets, control how gets excommunicated etch.

Actually as long as you have Sons of Abraham, vassalizing the Pope is really powerful. While technically, the new things the pope can do for you in SoA are available to all Catholics, if he isn't your Vassal he has to like you (and dislike the target in the case of granting claims). And since he likes you less with each favor there is a limit to how much you can get out of him and it's dangerous to ask too much because he is more likely to excommunicate you for your enemies or grant them claims. Both of those limitations go away if you vassalize him. He will never say no to your requests and while he still likes you less with each one he can't excommunicate you or grant claims on your stuff as long as your his liege. So you can freely get crusades, get claims on any counties an duchies owned by fellow catholics, and nominate bishops (limited only by the piety cost). Theoretically you can also get money, but Vassal Popes rarely have enough to give. But since that's largely because of the taxes he's paying you, that's not really a problem.

Also, I'm pretty sure even without SoA you can freely excommunicate and request invasion (should you happen to meet the requirements for request invasion) with a Vassal Pope.

Raineh Daze · Oct 20, 2014

Lord Roivas said:
If you inherited Byzantium, you'd be much better off making ERE your primary title, solely for the massive vassal limit increase and the viceroyalties.

Also because if you then gather up the duchies to turn it into the Roman Empire, you have the best flag in the game and an actually-pleasant empire colour.

cl4yn4tion · Oct 20, 2014

Quick note, I dont think ERE starts, in 769, with the Imperial Administration law already unlocked. They start with Feudal just like everyone else. Has anyone checked to see if these laws are limited to just ERE or can all empires unlock them. The main reason i dont like playing ERE to restore Rome is that I like to convert to euiv in all of my games, and I dont like having some mega realm with no equal power left to fight, which is why i would prefer to stay as HRE but have these laws available. If not, then I may just wait till the end game, switch to elective monarchy and lowest crown authority, switch to Brandenburg and reform the empire again.

Raineh Daze · Oct 20, 2014

cl4yn4tion said:
Quick note, I dont think ERE starts, in 769, with the Imperial Administration law already unlocked. They start with Feudal just like everyone else. Has anyone checked to see if these laws are limited to just ERE or can all empires unlock them. The main reason i dont like playing ERE to restore Rome is that I like to convert to euiv in all of my games, and I dont like having some mega realm with no equal power left to fight, which is why i would prefer to stay as HRE but have these laws available. If not, then I may just wait till the end game, switch to elective monarchy and lowest crown authority, switch to Brandenburg and reform the empire again.

They have IA by default.

cl4yn4tion · Oct 20, 2014

Raineh Daze said:
They have IA by default.

Then factions must be able to change it back to feudal administration laws. I loaded up as ERE in my current HRE game (year 870) just to try out imperial administration, but they had feudal. Do you know if it grants free revocation of feudal titles, like with ERE's original imperial administration, or is it only free revocation of viceroys now?

Raineh Daze · Oct 20, 2014

cl4yn4tion said:
Then factions must be able to change it back to feudal administration laws. I loaded up as ERE in my current HRE game (year 870) just to try out imperial administration, but they had feudal. Do you know if it grants free revocation of feudal titles, like with ERE's original imperial administration, or is it only free revocation of viceroys now?

They probably renounced iconoclasm, there's a bug that causes IA to revert to feudal.

Free Revocation is alive and well in all forms.

cl4yn4tion · Oct 20, 2014

Raineh Daze said:
They probably renounced iconoclasm, there's a bug that causes IA to revert to feudal.

Free Revocation is alive and well in all forms.

Good. Now I just need to get Majesty 5 to see if HRE can get these laws as well haha. Im assuming its modable though, so that other empires can get these laws if not already available. Also, is the free revocation only for duke level still, or can king level viceroys be freely revoked as well?

Mcato · Dec 7, 2017

This thread may be dead but that's not going to stop me!
So I have been playing a remarkably successful Ironman game as ERE. Got to reform Rome, and there was much rejoicing. My issue is that I am dealing with vassal limit restrictions and I started on imperial administration. I am at around 39 vassal limit and intend to restore the empire to its proper borders but that vassal limit is an issue. Imperial admin says I get a glorious +25 vassal limit but when I hover over my vassal limit it says plus 14. Do I have to decentralize the Empire and hand all power to my idiot council to see that +25 or is this a bug?

The Nexerus · Dec 7, 2017

Mcato said:
This thread may be dead but that's not going to stop me!

It really should have.

faiuwle · Dec 8, 2017

The duchy viceroyalties law that comes with imperial administration also comes with -10 vassal limit. You can increase vassal limit by quite a bit by decentralizing and empowering the council.

Next time make a new thread.

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Question about the Administration Laws

cl4yn4tion

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miguellima

Major

cl4yn4tion

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theStormWeaver

Lead Dev - Ancient Religions

cl4yn4tion

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Silver Wizard

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Lord Roivas

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Raineh Daze

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cl4yn4tion

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Raineh Daze

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cl4yn4tion

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Raineh Daze

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cl4yn4tion

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Mcato

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The Nexerus

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