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Radar Strength

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Oof said:
Yeah, I've not really been that interested in STRT because of the cost and micromanagement they need. But hey are pretty effective. The downside is though, that when you start effective bombing in 1942/43, it will probalby win the USSR the war with a commie Europe since the USA doenst have the army to invade mainland Europe till late 43 early 44 :(
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Yep. It's one of the choices the Allies have to make. STR aren't cheap, either. For the cost of stack of 3-6 STR (with associated techs), you could put some HARM into action earlier and at least start taking out Italy.

I've only generally run STR when playing Britain and choosing to go alone against the Axis. In which case, after France falls, I start leveling Germany to the ground before they even try Barbarossa. With a little bit of luck, Germany doesn't start Barbarossa because the AI realizes it's too weak.

Then I have some extra time to plan an invasion, although the Soviets are still on the way eventually...
 
That’s one of the reasons why I don’t like playing the Allies. If your successful, you’re indirectly helping the Soviet AI which can take all or most of Europe way before 1944. And, it’s been said quite a few times, though your in the Allies, you’re basically alone. There is simply no way to plan offensives together and the AI keeps amazing me with suicide invasions and undefended strategic cities ripe for the taking. :(
Though HOI4 wont be our savior ;) I really hope that PI has improved the cooperation with Allies.
 
The one time I played UK to the end of the war, I had to do it all alone, that's right. UK liberated North Africa. UK took the fight up the boot, right to the Alps. UK's partisans in France gave me the opening I needed in 1943 to launch D-Day in Normandy. UK liberated all of Europe, including Poland. The Soviets were coming back, but they were still only on the outskirts of Poland at the time.
The US took Marseille and then left again. The US Navy was in the Mediteranean (I tag switched, and it was literally the ENTIRE US Navy) after the frontline had passed Milan. Japan was taking a tan on the beaches of Honolulu.
So, yes, the ability to better coordinate would be more than appreciated. I have always hoped they would implement some form of Military Control, like we had in HOI 2. They never did.
 
Oof said:
Yeah, I've not really been that interested in STRT because of the cost and micromanagement they need. But hey are pretty effective. The downside is though, that when you start effective bombing in 1942/43, it will probalby win the USSR the war with a commie Europe since the USA doenst have the army to invade mainland Europe till late 43 early 44 :(
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I'm going to be testing that in HPP with my current game. It'll be interesting. I think I can land twenty-thirty divisions - and possibly more - by early '42, if I can get into the brawl.
 
One thing that's happened in four straight HPP campaigns for me is the Germans hitting Poland in early '39, pausing for a month or three, and then slamming hard into the Soviet Union, ignoring Western Europe. As of now, the Allies aren't even at war with the Germans who launched Barbarossa in August '39.
 
Kovax said:
As for "gamey" moves, building up radar in Leipzig and Dortmund as Germany gives your defending INT a nice bonus, since those are the two provinces most likely to be Strat-bombed (unless you increase their AA defenses). I've also tried building an airfield in each of those two provinces and basing the defenders there, which virtually guarantees a successful intercept.
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Does radar help with your province AA? I have done quite a bit to build up my defences.
 
SergeantPunch said:
Does radar help with your province AA? I have done quite a bit to build up my defences.
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No, it does not. Radar of WW2 can tell you "Hey, there is a plane X distance at Y heading", not "Hey, there is a plane at these 10-digit coordinates". Useful for fighters to be sent to where the enemy is, instead of patrolling and looking, but useless for AA, which needs to physically see, and have the enemy fly close enough to its positions to shoot at it.
 
Opanashc said:
No, it does not. Radar of WW2 can tell you "Hey, there is a plane X distance at Y heading", not "Hey, there is a plane at these 10-digit coordinates". Useful for fighters to be sent to where the enemy is, instead of patrolling and looking, but useless for AA, which needs to physically see, and have the enemy fly close enough to its positions to shoot at it.
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So what you need is your interceptors based on the province with the radar and on a continuous intercept mission over said provence and the better the radar the more effective they will be?
 
SergeantPunch said:
So what you need is your interceptors based on the province with the radar and on a continuous intercept mission over said provence and the better the radar the more effective they will be?
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I'm not sure if the radar matters more or the tech in the fighter doctrine
 
misterbean said:
I'm not sure if the radar matters more or the tech in the fighter doctrine
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So the fighter radar tech is radar on the aircraft? and the industry radar is radar on the ground. So the idea is the radar on the ground detects the aircraft and the interceptors are scrambled and their on board radar is supposed to make this easier to do. I guess. Someone who knows might share on this.
 
SergeantPunch said:
So the fighter radar tech is radar on the aircraft? and the industry radar is radar on the ground. So the idea is the radar on the ground detects the aircraft and the interceptors are scrambled and their on board radar is supposed to make this easier to do. I guess. Someone who knows might share on this.
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In Air Doctrines, under Fighter section, there is a doctrine for land radar assistance. Researching the tech, gives 5% per level for fighters during air fights in provinces with your radar, or provinces adjacent to such provinces. Under Fighters techs, there is a tech for Search Radar, which gives +10% to night fighting of Fighter planes (basically reducing -50% night fighting penalty).
 
I am talking about the tech in the Air Doctrines. Sorry I was not clearer earlier. I have never done any sort of testing which would give the best modifier: having multiple radars in the same province or having the doctrine tech ahead of time. The most obvious one would be the Doctrine tech, since it counts for all your interceptors operating under a ground radar guidance.
 
misterbean said:
The one time I played UK to the end of the war, I had to do it all alone, that's right. UK liberated North Africa. UK took the fight up the boot, right to the Alps. UK's partisans in France gave me the opening I needed in 1943 to launch D-Day in Normandy. UK liberated all of Europe, including Poland. The Soviets were coming back, but they were still only on the outskirts of Poland at the time.
The US took Marseille and then left again. The US Navy was in the Mediteranean (I tag switched, and it was literally the ENTIRE US Navy) after the frontline had passed Milan. Japan was taking a tan on the beaches of Honolulu.
So, yes, the ability to better coordinate would be more than appreciated. I have always hoped they would implement some form of Military Control, like we had in HOI 2. They never did.
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UK is way over powered in this game compared to reality.
 
KyrionMyrthar said:
I'm going to be testing that in HPP with my current game. It'll be interesting. I think I can land twenty-thirty divisions - and possibly more - by early '42, if I can get into the brawl.
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You need at least two to three full armies, that’s a minimum of about 50 div, to stand a chance of defeating the Germans otherwise you end up in a stalemate or get slaughtered. And remember German units will have higher org! But to be honest I doubt if 50 div is enough cause you need at least 2 div per province or otherwise you get attacked straight away and a single American div doesn’t’ stand a chance against a two German div attacking from different directions. But I’d love to hear your experience.
 
Opanashc said:
No, it does not. Radar of WW2 can tell you "Hey, there is a plane X distance at Y heading", not "Hey, there is a plane at these 10-digit coordinates". Useful for fighters to be sent to where the enemy is, instead of patrolling and looking, but useless for AA, which needs to physically see, and have the enemy fly close enough to its positions to shoot at it.
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German radar in 1939 was giving good enough height and range estimates to enable their AA to shoot down RAF bombers hidden by clouds. It was this that prompted Goering to promise that no enemy bomber would fly over Germany.
 
SergeantPunch said:
Does radar help with your province AA? I have done quite a bit to build up my defences.
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The main purpose of the radar (one level is sufficient) is to provide a combat advantage to your fighters, assuming that you've researched the relevant Interceptor doctrine, and it also provides some advanced warning so your fighters intercept at the first sign of enemy aircraft, not show up an hour or two later and miss out on the first opportunity for combat. The more Strength damage you can do to the attacking bombers, the less damage they do to the province and the longer it takes for them to repair before they stick their ugly metal noses in your airspace again.
 
misterbean said:
I am talking about the tech in the Air Doctrines. Sorry I was not clearer earlier. I have never done any sort of testing which would give the best modifier: having multiple radars in the same province or having the doctrine tech ahead of time. The most obvious one would be the Doctrine tech, since it counts for all your interceptors operating under a ground radar guidance.
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I'm not really sure that I think the doctrine is worth it anymore.

Despite having a ton of range from my massive RADAR installations, the benefits of that doctrine apply only in one or two provinces. So, while I can put RADAR in places I know will get bombed (just because I know the AI), there's no real point in using that doctrine if I just want RADAR coverage in general.

It actually bothers me a bunch. If my RADAR has range to enemy territory, I should be able to get some benefit even that far away.
 
Secret Master said:
I'm not really sure that I think the doctrine is worth it anymore.

Despite having a ton of range from my massive RADAR installations, the benefits of that doctrine apply only in one or two provinces. So, while I can put RADAR in places I know will get bombed (just because I know the AI), there's no real point in using that doctrine if I just want RADAR coverage in general.

It actually bothers me a bunch. If my RADAR has range to enemy territory, I should be able to get some benefit even that far away.
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I think I got this one!


Think of radar as two different installation types. The multiple radars in a province type is intel. The single radar in a province is air defense.

With the intel type, the more radars in a province the better it will do its intel job.

Air defense only covers the province it is in plus its direct neighbors, regardless of how many radars you stack in that province. More radars in a province don't buff air defense.

So, same building, radar, but two different tasks.

Intel radar stacked tall in a border province to see into enemy lands. Air defense radar spread around your homeland in single radar dollops.
 
Oof said:
You need at least two to three full armies, that’s a minimum of about 50 div, to stand a chance of defeating the Germans otherwise you end up in a stalemate or get slaughtered. And remember German units will have higher org! But to be honest I doubt if 50 div is enough cause you need at least 2 div per province or otherwise you get attacked straight away and a single American div doesn’t’ stand a chance against a two German div attacking from different directions. But I’d love to hear your experience.
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I got off-track in that particular game, but mean to re-try it.
 
Secret Master said:
I'm not really sure that I think the doctrine is worth it anymore.

Despite having a ton of range from my massive RADAR installations, the benefits of that doctrine apply only in one or two provinces. So, while I can put RADAR in places I know will get bombed (just because I know the AI), there's no real point in using that doctrine if I just want RADAR coverage in general.

It actually bothers me a bunch. If my RADAR has range to enemy territory, I should be able to get some benefit even that far away.
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I have the same dissatisfaction with Radar. Germany and the UK seem to get the most use from it. The USA does to an extent in the Pacific, but it is marginal unless Wake and Guam are built-out quickly. Even then, it's only really good if you have time to sit and watch for Japanese fleets, and honestly, who does?
 
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