Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Slavs in Iberia and others arabic lands (Saqaliba)

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Crusader Kings II 69871 Bug Reports 19708 User Modifications 10588 Suggestions 5969 Tech Support 6362 After Action Reports
Lasota

Lasota

Corporal
45 Badges
Dec 26, 2012
26
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
Idea
Arabian rulers could create Slavic guards like the Byzantines can create varegian guards. The cool thing they could be slavic courtiers in Andalusia, appearing as (freed slaves, soldiers or blond sex bomb from Slavia)



sklavinnen_harem.jpg


source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqaliba
 
Why would you want this, as a Slav? Does this not bring disgrace to your people? Wouldn't it be bad for balancing, to have Andalucian Varangian Guard?
 
I always thought the Muslim world's slave-soldier system was pretty interesting, but I had no idea Slavs made up such a big part of it. I always thought of it more as a thing for Turks. Anyway I'd definitely be interested in seeing something like that in Andalusia, but I do worry about the implications for balance.
 
icedt729 said:
I always thought the Muslim world's slave-soldier system was pretty interesting, but I had no idea Slavs made up such a big part of it. I always thought of it more as a thing for Turks. Anyway I'd definitely be interested in seeing something like that in Andalusia, but I do worry about the implications for balance.
Click to expand...

It was a thing for the Turks in the Middle East but not in the Maghreb, and in Andalusia definitely Slavs were used instead :)

I do not know how Slave soldiers should be represented though. Perhaps as retinues?
 
I think the Fatimids have a vassal mercenary band of Ghulams, so there's a precedent. I'd imagine the retinues would probably be mostly slaves in practical terms, too.
 
Muslim realms mostly used slaves for their standing army.
It would be nice if instead of retinues; Muslims have slave soldiers. They could raid infidel provinces similar to pagans but instead of gold they'll get slaves. Then instead of a -% tax malus after a pagan raid, the baronies could get a -% levy malus indicating that a lot of good fighting men had been abducted.

This means Muslim rulers could either pay for their retinues in gold (by buying them from other Muslims) or capturing them themselves (Turkish slaves were the standard in the Muslim world until most tribes converted).

It would also mean that if you are a fledgling Emir in a border region you could make money from the slave trade.
 
Nadi said:
Muslim realms mostly used slaves for their standing army.
It would be nice if instead of retinues; Muslims have slave soldiers. They could raid infidel provinces similar to pagans but instead of gold they'll get slaves. Then instead of a -% tax malus after a pagan raid, the baronies could get a -% levy malus indicating that a lot of good fighting men had been abducted.

This means Muslim rulers could either pay for their retinues in gold (by buying them from other Muslims) or capturing them themselves (Turkish slaves were the standard in the Muslim world until most tribes converted).

It would also mean that if you are a fledgling Emir in a border region you could make money from the slave trade.
Click to expand...

Both of them raided for gold and slaves.
 
Viden said:
Both of them raided for gold and slaves.
Click to expand...
I know, but for some reason I'd like to keep the distinction between pagan and Muslim raids. I like it if one religion plays completely different from another, makes it feel like a completely different game.

Slave armies played a more prominent role in Islamic societies anyway, the function wouldn't be missed in pagans as much as with the Muslims.
 
Yeah, add muslim raiding. One of the postulated reasons that the crusades were as successful as they were with the common people was due to just how much raiding arabs did in Southern and Eastern Europe. Hell, they sacked Rome twice
 
Yes Arab raiders did sack the outer areas of Rome twice but they couldn't get past the Aurelian Walls which well built that they weren't breached even by cannons until the mid 19th century, a pity they were near impossible to man unless you had the manpower of the roman empire, even 20,000 men weren't enough to man the walls properly until the other impressive walls of the ancient world, the Walls of Constantinople but they were more than enough to stop even a large band of raiders just not a determined army.

But yes the Arabs did launch a large numbers of raids for slaves while the Spanish would launch counter raids to rescue the people they took as slaves. The Arab slave markets also were a major destination for the slave trade in the British isles conducted by the Irish, Norse, welsh, Anglo-Saxons and scots before the Normans shut down the slave trade. A lot of it had to do with the African slave trade being disrupted so the Arabs looked elsewhere for their slaves.
 
wordplay, but I am focused on slavic cultur among Arab rulers. Arab raids is another question. You know, military service, the presence among the rulers. Something like Jewish immigrants, or the Normans.
 
Rokh said:
Yeah, add everybody raiding.



wut
Click to expand...
Somewhere around 2 million southern Europeans were taken as slaves between the 8th and 16th centuries. That's a fair bit of raiding. If you were a peasant around the coast, you may not have taken that so well
 
Ashagar said:
Yes Arab raiders did sack the outer areas of Rome twice
Click to expand...

But who the hell are these "Arab raiders"? Where did they come from? I find nothing on Wikipedia :ninja:


CanadaLad said:
Somewhere around 2 million southern Europeans were taken as slaves between the 8th and 16th centuries. That's a fair bit of raiding. If you were a peasant around the coast, you may not have taken that so well
Click to expand...

Source for that?
 
Rokh said:
But who the hell are these "Arab raiders"? Where did they come from? I find nothing on Wikipedia :ninja:
After the conquest of Northern Africa, there were a lot of raids done from that area. Sicily too after it's conquest. They weren't organized for the most part by states, but they did happen. They even set up a base in Provence in France

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...s_and_Arabs_in_Provence_.287th-9th_century.29


Source for that?
Click to expand...
Just a second, I remember reading it somewhere. Either way, more concrete estimates from the 16th-18th centuries suggest 1.3 million in that time period, and as raiding had occurred for centuries before that
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back