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So are these games early access now?

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DerOstkonig

DerOstkonig

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Feb 26, 2013
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I don't want to sound like I am pointlessly complaining, but I wanted to point out why I personally have not been playing CKII or EU IV in the past couple months.

Basically, since the release of Conquest of Paradise for EU IV, and Sons of Abraham, I've noticed that the devs for each respective game are just rolling out major changes and trying new mechanics, without fully realizing the repercussions of their actions.

As a result, I do not feel inclined to play either of the games, as there is a very, very good chance that the mechanics are not going to stay, or that the next patch is going to horribly break something just as I begin to enjoy a playthrough.

Prior to these patches, I had played 250 hours of EU IV and 375 hours of CKII with relative certainty that I could pick up and drop a playthrough regardless of how many patches or expansions paradox released.

I was very enthusiastic about posting ideas for expansions on the forums, as I had faith that new systems and flavor could be implemented without disrupting the playability of the game.

Now I am afraid to even start playing, because I've lost faith that the devs can continue to expand on the games without reinventing the wheel or breaking some content that I have paid for.


A disclaimer: I started playing Paradox games with CKII, and I understand that the stability of CKII and EUIV at release was something of a miracle according to the forum-goers, but I don't think that is any excuse to go back to a system where there is little to no continuity in balance and strategy, and where the player may gain and lose access to paid DLC content or core game content depending on how well the QA department tested the latest patch.


Also, I greatly respect Paradox for their dedication to bringing deep and relatively realistic strategy games to us, and I by no means think I have not gotten my money's worth.

But- I have seen the teams for EU IV and CKII do better than they are right now, and give more consideration to continuity in playability than they presently do, and I would very much like to see a return to that approach.


Please let me know if anyone feels the same or if I am just an arrogant prick who is expecting too much.
 
I feel it worth noting that paradox cops flak from both ends in regards to this issue. People complain when things don't change and when they do. I don't believe there is a way to please everyone but everyone is entitled to voice their opinions. Personally I'm normally glad when they announce new dlc and shake up the games a little. It's a rare occasion when I don't like their design decisions (although it has happened.) and no matter how good a game there is always room for improvement. Anyway, even though I don't feel the same way as you, you certainly don't come off as "an arrogant prick who is expecting too much." What I would suggest however is if you were happy with the games and now are concerned about patches breaking them, that you just don't update them without some research first.
 
Unfortunately, a moderator on the CKII forum informed me that that game cannot be frozen on a certain patch without being disconnected from steam. This would probably make the whole idea of freezing EUIV pretty much out of the question, as that game runs entirely in tandem with steam.

I also like it when the games change, and as I said in the original post, CKII used to be updated and changed regularly without disturbing basic game functions, and EU IV was static enough for me up until Conquest of Paradise, that I did not really notice the rebalances changing the essential way the game should be played.

Thank you for your response.
 
DerOstkonig said:
Unfortunately, a moderator on the CKII forum informed me that that game cannot be frozen on a certain patch without being disconnected from steam. This would probably make the whole idea of freezing EUIV pretty much out of the question, as that game runs entirely in tandem with steam.
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Not at all. You can copy the game out of the Steam folder to wherever you like, and that copy will never change. The downside is you can't play MP or Ironman with that copy.
 
DerOstkonig said:
Unfortunately, a moderator on the CKII forum informed me that that game cannot be frozen on a certain patch without being disconnected from steam. This would probably make the whole idea of freezing EUIV pretty much out of the question, as that game runs entirely in tandem with steam.

I also like it when the games change, and as I said in the original post, CKII used to be updated and changed regularly without disturbing basic game functions, and EU IV was static enough for me up until Conquest of Paradise, that I did not really notice the rebalances changing the essential way the game should be played.

Thank you for your response.
Click to expand...

You can also opt-in in to one of the previous patches which are kept available to use through Steam, in the game properties, Betas tab; though I doubt Paradox will make any statement committing to keeping those forever I don't see why they wouldn't remain available.
 
DerOstkonig said:
Unfortunately, a moderator on the CKII forum informed me that that game cannot be frozen on a certain patch without being disconnected from steam. This would probably make the whole idea of freezing EUIV pretty much out of the question, as that game runs entirely in tandem with steam.

I also like it when the games change, and as I said in the original post, CKII used to be updated and changed regularly without disturbing basic game functions, and EU IV was static enough for me up until Conquest of Paradise, that I did not really notice the rebalances changing the essential way the game should be played.

Thank you for your response.
Click to expand...
You know that retinues have always been just as powerful as they were now, right? And just about every single time there was a new DLC, whoever was featured in that DLC was ridiculously overpowered. Merchant republics could do city conquests anywhere and no limit to trade posts meant making hundreds of gold a month. I'm pretty sure the fatimids conquered everything everywhere.
 
ringhloth said:
You know that retinues have always been just as powerful as they were now, right? And just about every single time there was a new DLC, whoever was featured in that DLC was ridiculously overpowered. Merchant republics could do city conquests anywhere and no limit to trade posts meant making hundreds of gold a month. I'm pretty sure the fatimids conquered everything everywhere.
Click to expand...

I never mentioned nation balance. I am talking exclusively about lack of continuity between in-game systems and quantity of serious bugs introduced by patches.
 
Quantity of what bugs?
 
DerOstkonig said:
I never mentioned nation balance. I am talking exclusively about lack of continuity between in-game systems and quantity of serious bugs introduced by patches.
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DerOstkonig said:
...without fully realizing the repercussions of their actions... there is a very, very good chance that the mechanics are not going to stay, or that the next patch is going to horribly break something just as I begin to enjoy a playthrough.
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I'd argue that those things were done without "fully realizing the repercussions of their actions."
 
DerOstkonig said:
Unfortunately, a moderator on the CKII forum informed me that that game cannot be frozen on a certain patch without being disconnected from steam. This would probably make the whole idea of freezing EUIV pretty much out of the question, as that game runs entirely in tandem with steam.
Click to expand...

That's an odd thing for someone to say. You can revert to a limited selection of earlier patches by using the "beta" feature in Steam; you won't update to the newer patches so long as you're set to that beta; switching off the auto-update feature when you're not using a "beta" can be overriden sometimes (normally games that require you to play online, like the Wargames series, doesn't matter if you switch off auto-updating, that b* is autoupdating) or sometimes the setting itself isn't saved (I recommend setting it, closing the screen, opening it again and checking to make sure it's set, then relogging and checking again, if it's still set, it's unlikely it'll be set to on again). The updating when you've switched off auto-update malarkey is an issue in Steam itself.
The other alternative is to copy-paste your CK2, then manually download an older patch if you can find one. Old GG patches from what I recall could still be used on Steam versions outside the steam folder (copy-paste the patch contents over the copied CK2 folder). There are still live links available to the older GG patches somewhere.
 
ringhloth said:
You know that retinues have always been just as powerful as they were now, right?
Click to expand...


This is very questionable. It is true that there have been few direct buffs to retinues, but, since the number of levy+vassal troops a character can field has been significantly reduced, and there has been no corresponding nerf to retinues, they have become much stronger in a comparative sense.
 
I actually prefer it that way. It's what keeps me coming to their games after months and months (normally I play a game for a month or two and then uninstall it, NOT quite so with PDS games). As the game changes with each big patch I come back to feel like I'm playing a new game. If changes were not significant, I would dismiss them and eventually uninstall the games.
 
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