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Cash Value of a Province?

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PM Hamilton

PM Hamilton

The Imperial
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Dec 28, 2003
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I am wondering if anyone has any ideas about figuring up a fair cash value of a province considering its number of holdings and their level of development?

I am thinking of selling a province to an independent AI lord. However, I do not ant to 'cheat' any further than using an option not in the game. So, I need a fair price.

Are there any previous posts on this?
 
Are you sure you're talking of Crusader Kings 2?
 
miguellima said:
Are you sure you're talking of Crusader Kings 2?
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He wants a 'fair' price for the county he's going to give to the AI.

He'll edit himself some gold in compensation, of course, and he's wondering just how much is 'fair'.
 
AchedTeacher said:
I don't see how this makes sense. I know of no example during this time period where someone sold land for cash, it only happened later in EUs timeframe.
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Orkney became Scottish through a similar deal within ten years of the game time frame. Outside, yes, but close enough that it leaves me wondering if it did not in fact happen during the time frame.
 
Hi, I was hoping for something less arbitrary. However, I may have to revert to something like that. :D
 
@Ached Teacher: setting land as collateral for a loan was practiced.
 
PM Hamilton said:
I am wondering if anyone has any ideas about figuring up a fair cash value of a province considering its number of holdings and their level of development?

I am thinking of selling a province to an independent AI lord. However, I do not ant to 'cheat' any further than using an option not in the game. So, I need a fair price.

Are there any previous posts on this?
Click to expand...

You can do a DCF valuation if you have estimates of the amount and timing of the cash flows associated with the province as well as a proxy for the applicable rate of interest. You would also need a pseudo growth rate for the revenue figure. The number that results should be the current value of all the province's future revenues discounted for risk and the time value of money to the current time. You could then "sell" the province for this value. Note, this is a real simple method that ignores a lot of factors. Also note, the value will likely be very large.
 
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AchedTeacher said:
I know of no example during this time period where someone sold land for cash, it only happened later in EUs timeframe.
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In 1346 Denmark sold Harjumaa and Virumaa (two counties forming a large part of Northern Estonia) to Livonian Order (sub-branch of Teutonic Order) for 19,000 Köln/Cologne marks.

Wikipedia:
The mark was originally a unit of mass equal to 8 troy ounces (249 g), used to measure gold and silver throughout western Europe. Variations throughout the Middle Ages were, however, considerable.
Later, the weight called "mark" was generally half-a-pound. Like the German systems, the French poid du marc weight system considered one "marc" equal to half-a-pound (8 ounces).
Like the pound of 12 troy ounces (373 g), the mark was also used as a unit of currency, e.g. in many Shakespearean plays set in medieval England, and in various incarnations in Germany and Finland until the adoption of the euro in 1999.
 
Funny topic.

The question of interest is a tough one, since there's no such clear value in CK2. I mean you can argue that 100 gold in 867 is worth more than 100 gold in 1453 since everyone has more gold and everything is more developed, but by how much?

Also, the other complication is that land doesn't just provide money, it provides troops as well. Though that just means that the DCF value would be a minimum value.
 
aprogressivist said:
Funny topic.

The question of interest is a tough one, since there's no such clear value in CK2. I mean you can argue that 100 gold in 867 is worth more than 100 gold in 1453 since everyone has more gold and everything is more developed, but by how much?

Also, the other complication is that land doesn't just provide money, it provides troops as well. Though that just means that the DCF value would be a minimum value.
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Ah-ha! Good point on price levels, they appear to be static (no overt deflation/inflation). The problem lies in estimating a value for the market capitalization rate to be used in the DCF analysis. A lot of assumptions would have to be made but you might be able to infer a rate based on the cost of mercenaries. You pay mercenaries an initial cash sum plus a periodic "rental" rate. The rental rate obviously incorporates army size and composition, but you are also paying the mercenaries for their time. Mercenaries get paid whether they are fighting or just standing. A fact I forget sometimes with bad results.

You could calculate some general "average" that would help solve the question: if given $xxx.xx gold for one period, what is the equivalent in generic "troops" I could have mobilized instead? I know there is a hidden rate relationship somewhere in there because, if you remember, the mercenary rates actually change over the course of the game. While I don't think the stated up-front amounts change, I know the number of mercenaries in the units increases as the game goes on. Ceterius paribus, the cost of a single mercenary decreases as the game progresses. For example, the White company starts with like 4k troops and ends the game with like 10k troops.
 
djrice247 said:
Ah-ha! Good point on price levels, they appear to be static (no overt deflation/inflation). The problem lies in estimating a value for the market capitalization rate to be used in the DCF analysis. A lot of assumptions would have to be made but you might be able to infer a rate based on the cost of mercenaries. You pay mercenaries an initial cash sum plus a periodic "rental" rate. The rental rate obviously incorporates army size and composition, but you are also paying the mercenaries for their time. Mercenaries get paid whether they are fighting or just standing. A fact I forget sometimes with bad results.

You could calculate some general "average" that would help solve the question: if given $xxx.xx gold for one period, what is the equivalent in generic "troops" I could have mobilized instead? I know there is a hidden rate relationship somewhere in there because, if you remember, the mercenary rates actually change over the course of the game. While I don't think the stated up-front amounts change, I know the number of mercenaries in the units increases as the game goes on. Ceterius paribus, the cost of a single mercenary decreases as the game progresses. For example, the White company starts with like 4k troops and ends the game with like 10k troops.
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I think that's rather too complex for medieval banking - and I'm fairly certain this DID happen on a limited scale after the 11th Century, but it would only be cities and small counties - can't find the example I'm thinking of. In any case, it makes sense that if your ally held a city in your county you would "gift" them an amount of gold in exchange for a transfer of vassalage - that's completely different to "buying" land, which is very difficult to do in medieval times, but did also happen fairly often among the "lower" orders.

I would think the going rate would be the current income multiplied over a number of years - complex adjustments for "inflation" and "future value" are foreign concepts in medieval Europe because what you but is a right to hold what's currently there.
 
AchedTeacher said:
I don't see how this makes sense. I know of no example during this time period where someone sold land for cash, it only happened later in EUs timeframe.
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Many sold there land for a marriage with his daughter or change land with land. I will see if I can find a exemple later.
 
Typical returns at this time seem to have been 3-4%. So something like 25-30 years' tax income (full income, not just highest tier) would be fair.

Oh, and you give up yr claim too, of course.
 
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