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Stargate00001

Second Lieutenant
115 Badges
May 28, 2011
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So I am playing on Ironman mode and found that if you want to get really large and fight off invasions from the Aztecs and the Mongols, there's only one way to do it, no vassals. Sure there are downsides to it but on the whole I feel it is the best way to get started. I started as a Norse duke in Denmark and worked my way up from there. As of a few minutes ago I was the Tsar of Russia, Scandinavia, and Tataria, King of Bulgaria, Poland, and Pomerania.

I decided that to stop the annoying peasant revolts and to convert provinces to the reformed Norse faith, that I'd use the "create new vassal" mechanic to hand out all my lower titles, then wait until I had a few people with good stewardship in my court to show up so I could hand them all the counties. I don't have any dukes and destroyed all dukedoms because my policy regarding vassals is as follows: Barons are nothing, counts are a nuisance, and dukes are dangerous.

In return for me granting them all this land, huge factions started forming against me for no reason at all. My liege is kind, honorable, just, charitable, most of the people joining factions had +50 opinion of me. Yet no matter how hard I tried they'd still revolt and demand independence. My retinue - which reached 25,000 men - could handle them but they were like flies and scattered all over my empire sieging remote parts of Finland and Norway or the Far East to try and evade me.

It would take years to squash these rebellions only to have them turn up again in a few decades. I was eventually forced to surrender to a faction (they had 80% of the realm) that lowered all crown authority to autonomous vassals and changed the succession law back to gavelkind in all my titles. I was forced to abdicate and now I'm a lowly king under my kinswoman as emperor. Mostly my problems are with factions.

It doesn't seem to matter that I can keep all of my vassals with +50 opinion of me, they just continue to revolt and revolt. It doesn't help that the surrender that I gave was actually an accident cause my mouse is a little buggy at times and accidentally clicked surrender instead of enforce demands. I had only realized my error after I clicked the send button. I tried to go back but as it was ironman mode it saved me sending my decision. The bottom line is it all leads back to these stupid factions. I'm asking for guidance from the paradox community as these damn vassals are so annoying that the only way I find myself able to play bearably is by taking them out of the picture.
 
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So I am playing on Ironman mode and found that if you want to get really large and fight off invasions from the Aztecs and the Mongols, there's only one way to do it, no vassals. Sure there are downsides to it but on the whole I feel it is the best way to get started. I started as a Norse duke in Denmark and worked my way up from there. As of a few minutes ago I was the Tsar of Russia, Scandinavia, and Tataria, King of Bulgaria, Poland, and Pomerania. I decided that to stop the annoying peasant revolts and to convert provinces to the reformed Norse faith, that I'd use the "create new vassal" mechanic to hand out all my lower titles, then wait until I had a few people with good stewardship in my court to show up so I could hand them all the counties. I don't have any dukes and destroyed all dukedoms because my policy regarding vassals is as follows: Barons are nothing, counts are a nuisance, and dukes are dangerous. In return for me granting them all this land, huge factions started forming against me for no reason at all. My liege is kind, honorable, just, charitable, most of the people joining factions had +50 opinion of me. Yet no matter how hard I tried they'd still revolt and demand independence. My retinue - which reached 25,000 men - could handle them but they were like flies and scattered all over my empire sieging remote parts of Finland and Norway or the Far East to try and evade me. It would take years to squash these rebellions only to have them turn up again in a few decades. I was eventually forced to surrender to a faction (they had 80% of the realm) that lowered all crown authority to autonomous vassals and changed the succession law back to gavelkind in all my titles. I was forced to abdicate and now I'm a lowly king under my kinswoman as emperor. Mostly my problems are with factions. It doesn't seem to matter that I can keep all of my vassals with +50 opinion of me, they just continue to revolt and revolt. It doesn't help that the surrender that I gave was actually an accident cause my mouse is a little buggy at times and accidentally clicked surrender instead of enforce demands. I had only realized my error after I clicked the send button. I tried to go back but as it was ironman mode it saved me sending my decision. The bottom line is it all leads back to these stupid factions. I'm asking for guidance from the paradox community as these damn vassals are so annoying that the only way I find myself able to play bearably is by taking them out of the picture.
Pro-tip: try with a "non Holy Wall of Text" version and many more people might stop by and give you some piece of advice (no, in fact I admit that I didn't read it either, that's why I'm giving you this suggestion).
 
I read it its just you made many mistakes its hard to know where to get started.

Ill try and i apologise if some of these points are moot, tryimg to hit every angle here.

1. When creating a new duke vassal only give the duchy to a character with the content trait who is the same culture and religion as you. If you cant find a content guy just make sure he doesnt have envious or any traits that are the opposite of yours. Use the find character menu to search for these people in your realm/vassals.

2. Make sure your vassal dukes/kings control there entire de jure land and you dont have any of it/ control a vassal (thats smaller than their rank) that does.

3. Dont hold on to/ create unnecessary kingdoms. This gives a straight opinion malus to dukes in that de jure kingdom.

4. Dont land pretenders to your tiltles, dont do anything that causes tryany (imprisoning, revoking, mucking up assassinations and plots) and immediately remove ambitious people there just not worth it.

5. On sucession always make sure you have plenty of gold for bribes. If you have to create king vassals and sweep annoying dukes under the rug by transfering them to the king vassal.

6. People wont leave fractions if their opinion of you is less than 80. Use your spymasters scheme function to remove them from fractions. If you do it on the fraction leader the fraction can sometimes simply collapse. They wont form fractions if there opinion of you is over 50.

7. Once you get big enough a diplomatic education can be very important. The extra relations boost can be a big help.

8. Hold feasts and tournements if your struggling to get vassal opinion above 60. They can make a big difference.

9. If all else is failing on a new succesion and you have a religious/peasant revolt going on, kill most of the troops but stop around 60% warscore. It gives a +50 vassal relations boost and will buy you some time. Its gamey but not as bad as having no vassals.

10. The more troops you personally control the lower the fraction strength is. A few merc companies might be enough to stop the fractions firing for long enough to sort them out.

Ive probably left alot out but that should help for now. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.
 
Just remembered one more; elective succession gives a 20 opinion bonus with your all your vassals and if they like you they'll follow your line on voting. If you have more than one duchy you may get a "holds two many electoral titles" penalty though which is -15 for each extra duchy( although you should never hold more than two anyway).

One other thing, stay under your demesne limit. Vassals hate that too.
 
Just remembered one more; elective succession gives a 20 opinion bonus with your all your vassals and if they like you they'll follow your line on voting. If you have more than one duchy you may get a "holds two many electoral titles" penalty though which is -15 for each extra duchy( although you should never hold more than two anyway).

One other thing, stay under your demesne limit. Vassals hate that too.

Plus via election you can choose the best heir, and not just get the good heir.
 
Do note that the opinion threshold for joining/leaving factions is being raised; so you no longer have to get everyone up to 80+.
 
If you are Catholic. Elective succession and free investiture will help. FreeIn gives you clergyman bonus plus all vassals with a clergy vassal gets a +10 bonus. Elective succession is +20 to all non family member vassals. So that is +30 right there.

I would say if you are King it is easier to have all Duke vassals who are single county owners and try to get as many of them with content. At least make sure you don't promote ambitious that is -50 opinion to liege. 10 Dukes easier to control then 40 counts. You might have to gift a couple Duke's every now and then thats about it.

1. And make sure all of your direct vassals are same religion and same culture as you.
2. Don't own land your vassal de jure territory that is opinion penalty
3. If you own multiple kingdom titles Dukes from second kingdom will get desires kingdom negative opinion modifier
4. Always educate you heirs and try and get good green traits.
5. Grey eminence rulers will help.
6. Marry heir for stats will help
Grand Feasts give you +5 opinion temporally and a boost to diplomacy temporarily.
 
Destroying any title will give a big opinion hit to anyone in that title's de jure territory. Meaning if you have counts and then destroy a ducal title, they will hate you. Also if you don't have any Duke's your realm will pretty much not advance in tech.

Sometimes you lose to factions, tho with proper vassal management that is rare.
 
So I am playing on Ironman mode and found that if you want to get really large and fight off invasions from the Aztecs and the Mongols, there's only one way to do it, no vassals. Sure there are downsides to it but on the whole I feel it is the best way to get started. I started as a Norse duke in Denmark and worked my way up from there. As of a few minutes ago I was the Tsar of Russia, Scandinavia, and Tataria, King of Bulgaria, Poland, and Pomerania.

I decided that to stop the annoying peasant revolts and to convert provinces to the reformed Norse faith, that I'd use the "create new vassal" mechanic to hand out all my lower titles, then wait until I had a few people with good stewardship in my court to show up so I could hand them all the counties. I don't have any dukes and destroyed all dukedoms because my policy regarding vassals is as follows: Barons are nothing, counts are a nuisance, and dukes are dangerous.

In return for me granting them all this land, huge factions started forming against me for no reason at all. My liege is kind, honorable, just, charitable, most of the people joining factions had +50 opinion of me. Yet no matter how hard I tried they'd still revolt and demand independence. My retinue - which reached 25,000 men - could handle them but they were like flies and scattered all over my empire sieging remote parts of Finland and Norway or the Far East to try and evade me.

It would take years to squash these rebellions only to have them turn up again in a few decades. I was eventually forced to surrender to a faction (they had 80% of the realm) that lowered all crown authority to autonomous vassals and changed the succession law back to gavelkind in all my titles. I was forced to abdicate and now I'm a lowly king under my kinswoman as emperor. Mostly my problems are with factions.

It doesn't seem to matter that I can keep all of my vassals with +50 opinion of me, they just continue to revolt and revolt. It doesn't help that the surrender that I gave was actually an accident cause my mouse is a little buggy at times and accidentally clicked surrender instead of enforce demands. I had only realized my error after I clicked the send button. I tried to go back but as it was ironman mode it saved me sending my decision. The bottom line is it all leads back to these stupid factions. I'm asking for guidance from the paradox community as these damn vassals are so annoying that the only way I find myself able to play bearably is by taking them out of the picture.

I just picked up CK2 again after quite some time. I see they added auto-invite to plot feature I requested... sweet!

The current faction setup in CK2 is stupid. Pants on head, stupid.

Here's the background:
I overthrew my cousin, the Sultan of Mauretania and became King. Now, at some point my king died, my heir took over, and war started to reinstall my cousin as king. At the time I controlled 4-5 duchies (Fes, Marrakech, Tangiers, 1/2 Timbuktu, 1/2 Ya'lalid, Seville), two directly myself, the rest via vassals.

I shit you not when I say every county revolted that I didn't control personally. And I kicked their asses. All their asses. Imprisoned every last one of them. Revoked all their titles.

After the war, I personally owned every single county and duchy title in the duchies listed above except 2 (two counts had 2 titles, so I could only revoke 1 of them.) This is important later, because one of those two counts was my cousin.

So I'm sitting on like 25-30 titles, demesne size of 6 or something small. I do what I'd done in the past to ensure stupidity doesn't rampage the land: I invite ~25 nobles to court using the decision "Invite Noble to Court". These are clean slate nobles. None have attribute "ambitious". I grant each one a single title. I grant one the duchy of Fes and keep the rest.


There's the background. Now for why factions are pants-on-head stupid right now:

Not too long later (maybe 5-10 years), a faction restarts to reinstall the old cousin sultan rotting in my jail with -2 health and age 76 (die, you mother f'er..). Ok, not a problem. It sets off after 2 supporters. Ok, also not a problem.

The problem is that every single count I just invited to court and gifted land to joins in the war against me. I literally just wiped my kingdom clean and eliminated every title holder except 2 and installed blank nobles with no history, all had positive opinions of me (most very high like 80+). And they join in the war to install the old claimant. Makes no sense.

I will note that they didn't join the faction, they joined via a call to arms. Which to me makes no sense. If you aren't willing to join the faction, why the fark are you joining a call to arms?
 
I will note that they didn't join the faction, they joined via a call to arms. Which to me makes no sense. If you aren't willing to join the faction, why the fark are you joining a call to arms?

That's being changed next patch; revolters will now form their own temporary kingdom and can no longer call loyalist vassals to arms.
 
I read it its just you made many mistakes its hard to know where to get started.


8. Hold feasts and tournements if your struggling to get vassal opinion above 60. They can make a big difference.

All good advice in general, but tournaments don't give you direct vassal opinion boost (just a small indirect bonus from the prestige gain, but there is a cap for prestige boost which large realm leaders almost always hit anyway).
 
One of the nice things about using middle-managers is that people fuss at them rather then you. If I grant the Kingdom of Greece to someone then no dukes/counts underneath the King can join any plots against me. Only the King of Greece is my direct vassal so he's the only one that can join a plot against me. If I keep that one guy's opinion high or jailed then all of Greece is permanently quiet. And if he ever revolts I just revoke his King title and give it a young duke, who instantly loves me for the rest of his/my life. Either way: Quiet.

To repeat, only your direct vassals can create/join factions against you. Sure the King of Greece has to worry about eight fussy Greek dukes, but I'm insulated from their plotting. Your problem is that you have all King and Emperor titles so every single direct vassal underneath you can pool together in one huge stack of hundreds of counts. As there are always a few malcontents, civil wars will be bite-sized and endless. (and with patch it will only get harder for you, using your method) Pass out more Duke/King titles and you'll have much fewer (but more dangerous) factions. After I smack down a solid revolt (and get +25 vassal opinion for doing so, and use spymaster as anti-faction device) then I have a nice quiet reign.
 
All good advice in general, but tournaments don't give you direct vassal opinion boost (just a small indirect bonus from the prestige gain, but there is a cap for prestige boost which large realm leaders almost always hit anyway).

It does give you +10 opinion at the end of the tournament with all vassals for 2 years in think.
 
One of the nice things about using middle-managers is that people fuss at them rather then you. If I grant the Kingdom of Greece to someone then no dukes/counts underneath the King can join any plots against me. Only the King of Greece is my direct vassal so he's the only one that can join a plot against me. If I keep that one guy's opinion high or jailed then all of Greece is permanently quiet. And if he ever revolts I just revoke his King title and give it a young duke, who instantly loves me for the rest of his/my life. Either way: Quiet.

To repeat, only your direct vassals can create/join factions against you. Sure the King of Greece has to worry about eight fussy Greek dukes, but I'm insulated from their plotting. Your problem is that you have all King and Emperor titles so every single direct vassal underneath you can pool together in one huge stack of hundreds of counts. As there are always a few malcontents, civil wars will be bite-sized and endless. (and with patch it will only get harder for you, using your method) Pass out more Duke/King titles and you'll have much fewer (but more dangerous) factions. After I smack down a solid revolt (and get +25 vassal opinion for doing so, and use spymaster as anti-faction device) then I have a nice quiet reign.

If you are pretty sure you are about to die, one can also revoke all King titles and then hand them back out right after succession. But it's a gamble.
 
That's being changed next patch; revolters will now form their own temporary kingdom and can no longer call loyalist vassals to arms.

Actually, I believe that's 100% false (aside from the temporary kingdom).

patchnotes said:
- Fixed a bug that was preventing vassals from being able to be called into war under certain CBs that were scripted to allow it.
- CBs that call other vassals into a revolt will now automatically call all vassals when war is declared.
 
So they are making it worse instead? Lovely.

No.
1) they're fixing the fact that in the current release you (as a player?) can't call in other vassals in certain CBs. It currently seems to work fine for the AI, though?
2) It automatically calls in other vassals instead of making the player cycle through dozens of vassals, which I'd consider a positive. Maybe you liked scrolling through a dozen vassals and calling each one individually?

The only thing I'm wondering about is that now you might have to bribe other vassals *before* firing a faction. Because otherwise you might get the "considering an offer from us" wait screen before you get the confirmation/rejection? OR, if it is instantaneous, it'll cut down on the "magical troops appear and THEN all the other vassals jump on board" thing.