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towerbooks3192

towerbooks3192

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Apr 23, 2010
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-An independent but I don't mind playing as a vassal
- With a goal to create a title that is a bit smaller than lets say the kingdom of Ireland (A grand duchy perhaps?)
- Have enough de Jure lands not to be unmanageable and is defensible.

I am basically looking for something small where conquest takes a back seat and probably something smaller than the kingdom of Ireland and I don't mind bending my knees at times and I would probably play and focus on marriage, politics and probably a bit of backstabbing later on. I am a bit tired of building up Ireland from top to bottom (despite sucking at it) and the countless wars as Norse and the challenge to reform it (it seems to be harder to do with Sweden now).
 
Navarra?

Brittany?

Sicily?
 
Fishman786 said:
Navarra?

Brittany?

Sicily?
Click to expand...

Interesting. But isn't Sicily under Italy at 867? I am leaning towards Navarra (knowing my ancestors were from there and I think my surname means "from Navarra"). Bertangaland to Brittany is interesting and I might try to perfect playing as Haesten and probably snatch up Ireland and Wales ASAP.

sealy300 said:
Finland. Any Tribe.
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Who is holding the holy sites of Suomenosko? I kind of recon they are weak but it is interesting to see finland as I never see them in EUIV unless they are released by Novgorod or under Scandinavia.

Any more suggestions?
 
sealy300 said:
Finland. Any Tribe.
Click to expand...

I've had a few games as Savo. Mielus Savolainen starts as a chief, and a vassal to another character. Find some excuse to kill your liege, and you'll become high chief of the tribe.
 
Bohemia. Start as either the King of Great Moravia or the Premyslid Duke of Bohemia. Try to survive the Magyar and form the Kingdom of Bohemia. If HRE forms, which depends mostly on the order of Karling deaths and civil wars, you may swear fealty and still be king.
 
...Who is holding the holy sites of Suomenosko? I kind of recon they are weak but it is interesting to see finland as I never see them in EUIV unless they are released by Novgorod or under Scandinavia...[/QUOTE]

The De Jure Duchy Of Karelia has one, another is on the isle west of Estonia, on the Novgorod/Holmgad(th)er and i can't remember the rest of the top of my head. I've done an ARR of a FInland campaign, it is in my signature.
 
towerbooks3192 said:
Interesting. But isn't Sicily under Italy at 867?
Click to expand...

IIRC, Sicily in 867 is independent, and divided into small states. The Byzantines, Italians and Arabs all want their share. Usually the latter aren't very successful though.



With Navarra, it may be good in CK2 but in EUIV it might be annoying as you would have very few provinces.
 
sealy300 said:
...Who is holding the holy sites of Suomenosko? I kind of recon they are weak but it is interesting to see finland as I never see them in EUIV unless they are released by Novgorod or under Scandinavia...
Click to expand...

The De Jure Duchy Of Karelia has one, another is on the isle west of Estonia, on the Novgorod/Holmgad(th)er and i can't remember the rest of the top of my head. I've done an ARR of a FInland campaign, it is in my signature.[/QUOTE]

The ones in Finland and Estonia, as well as the one in Perm are relatively easy to take and hold. The ones in Rus lands, Novgorod and somewhere more south, are more difficult.
 
towerbooks3192 said:
-An independent but I don't mind playing as a vassal
- With a goal to create a title that is a bit smaller than lets say the kingdom of Ireland (A grand duchy perhaps?)
- Have enough de Jure lands not to be unmanageable and is defensible.
Click to expand...

- Great Moravia that goes for Bohemia.
- Armenia or Georgia but then you have to cope with byzantine attention.
- Duke of Cherson, go independent and create Taurica
- Duke of Moldau, go independent, create Wallachia.
- Duke of Alania (1066), make kingdom of Alania

For hardcore mode, start as duke of Bjarmia, get kingdom of Perm and reform suomenusko before granting independence to everyone outside de-jure Perm. Granted, you will be quite weak but at least you can build ships and go raiding across the map for mad gold. Another option is tribe of Mordvins (suomenusko) that goes for kingdom of Volga-Bulgaria or his neighbour in Bolghar, though reforming Tengri is fairly impossible as him. Rovuma Lithuania and Slavic Poland also work but I am fairly sure the latter will get crusaded at some stage.

Or just screw the reform and stick to unreformed faits.

As for reforming Suomenusko, you can easily get holy sites from Ryazan, Perm and Karelia. Livonia might also be doable with fabricated claims. Novgorod holy site I do not go for usually and stick to raiding infidel temples as Bolgar, Cumania and Khazaria tend to be easy sources for this (cumania especially when civil wars hit).
 
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Ok, down to Finnish tribes or Navarra. I just don't know how I would deal with Navarra and all the moors surrounding me. The last thing I also want to do is backstab Asturias or any of the kingdoms. Playing Navarra and even getting something like lets say at least Aragon or whole Hispania itself would be interesting to see once I convert it to EU.

Curious though, does the demon child event happen to other religions? I got it for Rurik's son but it was just a false alarm and nothing happened. I was really disappointed.
 
towerbooks3192 said:
Ok, down to Finnish tribes or Navarra. I just don't know how I would deal with Navarra and all the moors surrounding me. The last thing I also want to do is backstab Asturias or any of the kingdoms. Playing Navarra and even getting something like lets say at least Aragon or whole Hispania itself would be interesting to see once I convert it to EU.

Curious though, does the demon child event happen to other religions? I got it for Rurik's son but it was just a false alarm and nothing happened. I was really disappointed.
Click to expand...

Only happens to Monotheistic religions, not for Pagans.
 
Navarra is 3 counties, Aragon 13. I thought you wanted something along the lines of Ireland :D

Anyway, just remember that as Volga-Bulgaria, mongols will come for you and as Perm, almost certainly. Though Perm might not get totally conquered. Volga-Bulgaria has plenty of space for additional holdings though and not totally crap provinces, unlike Perm which probably has about as much holdings combined as small duchy in central Europe.
 
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Damarrocarion said:
Navarra is 3 counties, Aragon 13. I thought you wanted something along the lines of Ireland :D

Anyway, just remember that as Volga-Bulgaria, mongols will come for you and as Perm, almost certainly. Though Perm might not get totally conquered. Volga-Bulgaria has plenty of space for additional holdings though and not totally crap provinces, unlike Perm which probably has about as much holdings combined as small duchy in central Europe.
Click to expand...

Never really knew much about Navarra but I was looking for something small and defensible but of course I would be expanding in the future but I was looking for something manageable and not boring when I am going to bend the knee. I might consider some of your other suggestions. Rats! its pretty hard to decide now with so many interesting countries. I kind of feel uncomfortable with pagans until they reform.
 
towerbooks3192 said:
Never really knew much about Navarra but I was looking for something small and defensible but of course I would be expanding in the future but I was looking for something manageable and not boring when I am going to bend the knee. I might consider some of your other suggestions. Rats! its pretty hard to decide now with so many interesting countries. I kind of feel uncomfortable with pagans until they reform.
Click to expand...

Romuva is easiest to reform as de-jure Lithuania has 3 holy sites and you can take 4th with your once-in-a-lifetime subjugation without needing to fabricate claims. In addition, once you have Lithuania, you are surrounded by infidels and can quickly burn temples for moral authority. I would probably stick to Lithuania as you can have lots of fun with ships and raiding. In addition, Lithuania has lots of provinces for additional holding upgrades so you can have relatively compact kingdom which is really strong.

You can even marry your dynasty to other pagans and see if you can establish kingdoms for them to rule, either in original faith or romuva.

In addition, you can do bit of expanding to Estonia or even create a pagan republic vassal to Pomeralia. If you get crusaded, just convert and educate your heir again to Romuva if you cannot get a white peace. All reformed pagans have means to resist crusades with their holy orders though.

For another Ironman challenge, take "Mongol bookmark" and play as Mindaugas, attempting to reform Romuva and kicking Teutonics out from the baltic.
 
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Damarrocarion said:
Romuva is easiest to reform as de-jure Lithuania has 3 holy sites and you can take 4th with your once-in-a-lifetime subjugation without needing to fabricate claims. In addition, once you have Lithuania, you are surrounded by infidels and can quickly burn temples for moral authority. I would probably stick to Lithuania as you can have lots of fun with ships and raiding. In addition, Lithuania has lots of provinces for additional holding upgrades so you can have relatively compact kingdom which is really strong.

You can even marry your dynasty to other pagans and see if you can establish kingdoms for them to rule, either in original faith or romuva.

In addition, you can do bit of expanding to Estonia or even create a pagan republic vassal to Pomeralia. If you get crusaded, just convert and educate your heir again to Romuva if you cannot get a white peace. All reformed pagans have means to resist crusades with their holy orders though.

For another Ironman challenge, take "Mongol bookmark" and play as Mindaugas, attempting to reform Romuva and kicking Teutonics out from the baltic.
Click to expand...

Ok, so who do I play as if I want to get Lithuania again? I kind of turn off Ironman because I am not comfortable playing with it. I am not that good in this game and yes I pretty much made a lot of mistakes and all that. Might try this Lithuania game in the morning and hopefully I might try and get Russia if ever I become strong enough. The only religion I reformed was Norse with Bjorn and I must say that the hardest one to get was the third one held by Denmark. It is basically suicide if you attack Denmark ASAP for he could drag in Halfdan whiteshirt and Ivar the Boneless anytime.
 
I typically start with tribe of Courians and and end up keeping duchies of Courland and Zemgale. It gives you 5 coastal provinces (just revoke the titles when you can so you have full control of all counties), all which have space for multiple new holdings. Your ruler also starts unmarried so you can make an alliance and collect money. Once you have saved around 150-200 coins, you can just hire something like Finnish company and subjugate whole Lithuania relatively easily. You only need money for kingdom title as you will gain two duchy titles for free when you subjugate the lands from duke of Zemgale and Lithuania.

Once you have Lithuania, you can just have permanent raiding going on towards Poland, Ruthenia and Pomeralia and burning temples as these lands are generally not unified and cannot stop your raiding. Raiding and looting will rapidly give you money for kingdom title too.
 
towerbooks3192 said:
-An independent but I don't mind playing as a vassal
- With a goal to create a title that is a bit smaller than lets say the kingdom of Ireland (A grand duchy perhaps?)
- Have enough de Jure lands not to be unmanageable and is defensible.

I am basically looking for something small where conquest takes a back seat and probably something smaller than the kingdom of Ireland and I don't mind bending my knees at times and I would probably play and focus on marriage, politics and probably a bit of backstabbing later on. I am a bit tired of building up Ireland from top to bottom (despite sucking at it) and the countless wars as Norse and the challenge to reform it (it seems to be harder to do with Sweden now).
Click to expand...

This is why they added the random button. :)

I just click random until I get to the first count and play as him/her.
 
towerbooks3192 said:
Never really knew much about Navarra but I was looking for something small and defensible but of course I would be expanding in the future but I was looking for something manageable and not boring when I am going to bend the knee. I might consider some of your other suggestions. Rats! its pretty hard to decide now with so many interesting countries. I kind of feel uncomfortable with pagans until they reform.
Click to expand...

Navarra can be fun, but you really end up having to land grab a bit if you want to survive. You start with two counties, including a Duke who may not like you. If you "bend the knee" as Navarra without expanding quickly, you basically game over, since it's likely that you're submitting to either a Muslim holy war or a Austurian or Aquitaine claim war on your one-and-only county. My opinion is that Navarra is simply too small and too much in the midst of EVERYTHING for you to maintain ONLY de jure borders forever.
 
The Tribe of the Sami. Conquer all the Lappish cultured lands you want, plus maybe a few more Norse places. Change religion if needed to stay alive, and try to build up a cash reserve for emergency defences. Expect that Sweden or Norway will try to kill you at various points.
 
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