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Confused about the "Rogue" Armies in my wars.

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Kinkness

Kinkness

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I've been playing as the Jewish religion in my game, managed to get Israel up and running (finally). But throughout the entire time I've been having very weird circumstances in all of my wars, and just weird circumstances in general.

Much like the real jews, it seems everyone is out to get me, regardless of who they are, and no I'm not talking about how I'm surrounded by other religions or cultures. Seems like the jews are cursed in this game.

I have several vassals who are 50+ or more in standing with me, minus a few who are like -5 to -10. Yet for the last 200 years Armenia rulers despite being Jewish, and of the same culture as me, constantly start a faction for independence. Not once, but twice they were 90 opinion of me, yet they start the faction. I even made sure I gave them land, and delegated everything properly with them. Yet non stop factions for independence.

Now that wouldn't be a huge issue to me if it wasn't for this next serious issue...

The rogue armies.

I've had 8 vassal uprisings, all of which were the same culture and religion as me with 40+ or better opinion of me throughout the time of starting my game as the jews, everytime they rise up something weird happens.

The Byzantines who have NOTHING to do with the war, piles on 4-5 stacks of 10k armies and rampages through my land, killing off my armies... What?! They neither declare war, or have any affiliation with my war, yet their armies are magically hostile and rampage through my land..

But here's the kicker.. When the war ends... They go home. It's as if they joined the side of my vassal, yet never "officially" declared it. Also the vassal war has never had anything to do with the Byzantines. (I've checked their family histories, etc. no ties to the Byzantines, no alliances, and in the war page of who's fighting who, the byzantines are not listed).

I at first thought maybe they are trying to push a claim on Crimea, but that wouldn't make sense for them to go home after the war, as their war would still be valid.

Then I remembered I would of gotten a declaration of war prompt for that anyway... I don't get what's going on.

1) Why are my vassals who are supposed to love me and support me (being 50+ opinion of me or more) fighting for Independence 24/7

2) And why are the Byzantines sending Rogue massive armies at me during wars that has nothing to do with them?

So what's going on?
 
Are you sure they haven't joined any war with you in it? Even if its a small and obscure war, that would set them hostile to you. Do they ever clash with any of your rebelling vassals' troops?
 
disgradius said:
Are you sure they haven't joined any war with you in it? Even if its a small and obscure war, that would set them hostile to you. Do they ever clash with any of your rebelling vassals' troops?
Click to expand...

I honestly am not sure, they don't seem to be, but that's usually because the armies are far apart. They do attack the vassals lands though as well as my armies, yet they are not in a "war" with me anywhere.
 
They probably declared war on your rebelling vassals, which is why they were hostile to you. If they didn't manage to get your vassals' land before your civil war was over, the Byzantines' war on your vassal was invalidated, because of liege change, i.e. you once again became the rebellious vassal's liege.

Also +50 opinion is not enough to discourage people from factions. People are more likely to join independence factions if you are not their de jure liege, i.e. you don't hold a title to which they should be de jure vassals.
 
TovarishChapaev said:
They probably declared war on your rebelling vassals, which is why they were hostile to you. If they didn't manage to get your vassals' land before your civil war was over, the Byzantines' war on your vassal was invalidated, because of liege change, i.e. you once again became the rebellious vassal's liege.

Also +50 opinion is not enough to discourage people from factions. People are more likely to join independence factions if you are not their de jure liege, i.e. you don't hold a title to which they should be de jure vassals.
Click to expand...

Alright that first part makes sense, but I've had vassals rebelling at 90 opinion.
 
Those might have been blackmailed, forced into the faction by a spymaster. You can do the same thing by scheming in someone's capital. You might have been able to take them out of the faction by sending your own spymaster to scheme in their capital and discourage them from factionalism.
 
TovarishChapaev said:
Those might have been blackmailed, forced into the faction by a spymaster. You can do the same thing by scheming in someone's capital. You might have been able to take them out of the faction by sending your own spymaster to scheme in their capital and discourage them from factionalism.
Click to expand...

I didn't even realize you could do that, or that it would make that happen anyway, I thought scheming simply enhanced your ability to find out what their doing, but not necessarily "changed" their mind. Thanks for the tip :)
 
Okay, its already been mentioned but I did want to add to the explanation.

What you're seeing with the 'interfering' ERE armies is exactly what has been noted. The ERE is declaring war on your rebelling vassal, which is not the same as declaring war on you. The conflicting wars result in the ERE troops being hostile to yours. If you didn't take any steps to end the rebellion what you would see is that the rebelling vassal would wind up being incorporated into the ERE whenever they surrender. However, the vassal surrendering to you FIRST results in the ERE's war becoming invalid. Some CB's will allow a war to continue if the top liege changes but most do not.

Now the discussion as to why the holders of border territories want independence from their liege when their neighbor is a powerful hostile state would want to be independent is a whole other can of worms, especially if said neighbor has access to an automatic free CB (like holy war). Unfortunately Paradox have either not yet found a way or have chosen not to insert a logic check that can replicate a human's ability to understand that being an independent state with relatively little army strength on the border of a strong enemy kingdom or empire is roughly the equivalent of taking a relaxing swim in shark prone waters while holding a freshly butchered side of beef.

As to the factions, the issue is that they're not de jure. Now if you have the whole duchy under control under your kingdom title then the duchy and the associated counties will begin to drift into your kingdom. This does take a 100 years however. Once that territory becomes dejure the independence factions should die down. As for high relation vassals supporting the factions you may want to check and see just how good the faction leaders spymaster and chancellor are, as that can make a pretty significant difference.
 
Ifernat said:
Okay, its already been mentioned but I did want to add to the explanation.

What you're seeing with the 'interfering' ERE armies is exactly what has been noted. The ERE is declaring war on your rebelling vassal, which is not the same as declaring war on you. The conflicting wars result in the ERE troops being hostile to yours. If you didn't take any steps to end the rebellion what you would see is that the rebelling vassal would wind up being incorporated into the ERE whenever they surrender. However, the vassal surrendering to you FIRST results in the ERE's war becoming invalid. Some CB's will allow a war to continue if the top liege changes but most do not.

Now the discussion as to why the holders of border territories want independence from their liege when their neighbor is a powerful hostile state would want to be independent is a whole other can of worms, especially if said neighbor has access to an automatic free CB (like holy war). Unfortunately Paradox have either not yet found a way or have chosen not to insert a logic check that can replicate a human's ability to understand that being an independent state with relatively little army strength on the border of a strong enemy kingdom or empire is roughly the equivalent of taking a relaxing swim in shark prone waters while holding a freshly butchered side of beef.

As to the factions, the issue is that they're not de jure. Now if you have the whole duchy under control under your kingdom title then the duchy and the associated counties will begin to drift into your kingdom. This does take a 100 years however. Once that territory becomes dejure the independence factions should die down. As for high relation vassals supporting the factions you may want to check and see just how good the faction leaders spymaster and chancellor are, as that can make a pretty significant difference.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. The bottom half of not being the De Jure is because the Israel country is a "titular", I did read that in the help info, so when I finally start to take them into my Kingdom as their De Jure this'll die down? Nice to know, not nice to know it'll take 100 years >.<; lol but what are you gonna do.

Thanks for the help ^.^
 
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