Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Location, location, location

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
lizardo

lizardo

Major
65 Badges
Feb 16, 2003
782
56
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pride of Nations
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Ancient Space
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
In 1990, Harvard Business School professor Michael Porter ... observed that geographic concentrations of interconnected companies and specialized suppliers gave certain industries productivity and cost advantages.
Click to expand...

A problem Vicky has, especially in becoming more EU like in V2, is the homogenous nature of its geography (at least in terms of how it affects manufacturing). There's no accounting for water power or transport canals/rivers. Nothing to explain why certain industries are located where they are. There's no mechanism to take advantage of local supply, which should be important but there's no cost mechanism for transportation. In fact even the barest abstracted transportation was eliminated going from V1 to V2.

Too easy access to the random number generator has been substituted for thinking and research.

Water power is why textile mills (and other industry) were located in the North East as opposed to being located near cotton fields in the south. Local access to iron and coal, along with water transport, are why steel industries were located in Ohio and Pennsylvania. Quality harbor locations accessible to resources are the reason for ship building being located where it is.

It's nice that the new ship rules limited ports, but it didn't go far enough. All the regions are generic and therefor don't account for critical local differences that explain why certain areas developed instead of other.

The limitation on numbers of factories in a state is also terrible, forcing a false homogeneity in the distribution of manufacturing. It makes for a duller and less rational game.

One of the worse limitations is that ports, factories and other installations must be build one layer at a time rather than as many layers as needed build in parallel, limited by labor and resources. This precludes the player from planning ahead, from telling the program what end result is wanted and allowing the program to fulfill that plan. Instead the player is burdened with checking each region constantly and telling the program to build repeatedly. This way of doing things vastly, and unnecessarily, increases the drudgery to game ratio.

-

. Provinces with water power and harbor potential would need to be researched and accounted for.
. Capitalists need an algorithm to locate factories close to market/resources/facilities and factor cost of transport.
. Allow the setting of a factory/installation target size and allow the building of as much of it at a time as resources/labor permit. this means for the AI to be able to anticipate needs and ROI.
 
Last edited:
I think this is somewhat represented by the bonuses for throughputs.
Aka, building a steel factory in a region providing coal and iron will give a 25% bonus.
Having a lumber mill where there is timber gives a 25% bonus, when you build a furniture factory there it gets a bonus from a lumbermill being present, hence outcompeting any other factories not located near there resources.
 
Emperor Hans said:
I think this is somewhat represented by the bonuses for throughputs.
Aka, building a steel factory in a region providing coal and iron will give a 25% bonus.
Having a lumber mill where there is timber gives a 25% bonus, when you build a furniture factory there it gets a bonus from a lumbermill being present, hence outcompeting any other factories not located near there resources.
Click to expand...

This was a good beginning. But as it stand's it doesn't simulate enough building and foactories ,and there fore the movement of POP's to regions with good infrastructure for industries.
But i can't see how this could be implmemented in Vicky2's engine as is. Another reason why it need's a new installment.
 
Orko80 said:
This was a good beginning. But as it stand's it doesn't simulate enough building and foactories ,and there fore the movement of POP's to regions with good infrastructure for industries.
But i can't see how this could be implmemented in Vicky2's engine as is. Another reason why it need's a new installment.
Click to expand...

Another is the railway caps. Some region, can max to only lvl 3 railway. Which also affect factory output.

Another is pops. Better land has higher pops and higher pops mean higher craftsman and higher production limits.
 
swordspirit said:
Another is the railway caps. Some region, can max to only lvl 3 railway. Which also affect factory output.
Click to expand...

There should be some way to offset this. Nations with relatively low tech levels have put railways through some really nasty territory. Mountains don't stop a railroad. Dynamite is a thing.

Sure its easier to put a rail line down across open plains than it is across(or under/through) a mountain range, but it can be done.
 
TypoNinja said:
There should be some way to offset this. Nations with relatively low tech levels have put railways through some really nasty territory. Mountains don't stop a railroad. Dynamite is a thing.

Sure its easier to put a rail line down across open plains than it is across(or under/through) a mountain range, but it can be done.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to real life or game. In any case, dont think at that era, you can maximise the railway in mountainous area. You can have railway through that region but unlikely to span across the whole provinces. guess the lvl limit seek to take this into consideration.
 
Well said. I find that the game is lacking in simulating a significant part of the strategic considerations that defined the Great Powers' actions during the 19th century. Why would Britain obsess of keeping the Russians out of the path to India, when the contact between the colony and the centre is abstracted? And why would control of the [Dardanelle] Straits be of such importance, when the Russian fleet can just sail through?

And since someone mentioned the railroads: Railroad construction was an operation that demanded very high levels of capital, as well as technical expertise. There may have been some impressive feats in lesser developed countries, but truth is, since both of these two elements were usually brought in by outside, through hiring foreign contractors and taking loans, in most cases outside Western Europe railroad building resulted in state bankruptcy. Furthermore, though the networks were initially operated as private enterprises in the UK and the USA, rising costs (including wage increases to the very large and militant workforce) made the rail companies loss making. That is why most national railroads have been at one point or the other (in the cases mentioned above, after the game's end) nationalised: the state had to take up the financial burden of running the whole thing.

To the point: would it be too difficult to treat railways as a special kind of factory, at the state level, with its own workers, income tied to industrial throughput, and a later choice to leave it to the owners (And risk closure), subsidise it or outright take over?
 
Fadi_Efendi said:
Well said. I find that the game is lacking in simulating a significant part of the strategic considerations that defined the Great Powers' actions during the 19th century. Why would Britain obsess of keeping the Russians out of the path to India, when the contact between the colony and the centre is abstracted? And why would control of the [Dardanelle] Straits be of such importance, when the Russian fleet can just sail through?

And since someone mentioned the railroads: Railroad construction was an operation that demanded very high levels of capital, as well as technical expertise. There may have been some impressive feats in lesser developed countries, but truth is, since both of these two elements were usually brought in by outside, through hiring foreign contractors and taking loans, in most cases outside Western Europe railroad building resulted in state bankruptcy. Furthermore, though the networks were initially operated as private enterprises in the UK and the USA, rising costs (including wage increases to the very large and militant workforce) made the rail companies loss making. That is why most national railroads have been at one point or the other (in the cases mentioned above, after the game's end) nationalised: the state had to take up the financial burden of running the whole thing.

To the point: would it be too difficult to treat railways as a special kind of factory, at the state level, with its own workers, income tied to industrial throughput, and a later choice to leave it to the owners (And risk closure), subsidise it or outright take over?
Click to expand...

That's something that buggs me every play. The spam of railroad all over the globe. I understand it's need for gameplay reasons. But the truth is that very few country's got railrodas. Hell Turkey doesn't have much railroad to this day. Only one i know of is in Instanbul and that's not a very long one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back