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Elective problem ! My Nominee not available for second kingdom ?

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Aardvark Bellay

Aardvark Bellay

Lord Wuffington of Grumpytown by the barks
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Apr 5, 2001
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[Solved] Elective problem ! My Nominee not available for second kingdom ?

edit (solved by and large): Fixed in my mind. See post#7. One question remains though...


Playing 1.101 (started in 1.10)

Problem:
Two of my nominees for christian Denmark are not available as nominees for Finland.

Description:
I'm Queen of Denmark (and hold Finland as second title) and have agnatic-cognatic elective in both kingdoms.
I have two cousins whom i can nominate for Denmark, but don't show in the list for nominees regarding Finland.
Nothing there concerning their legitimacy regarding excommunicated or bastard traits.

I'm about to post this in the Bug Report Subforum unless someone can explain this to me.
Any idea explantion why this could that happen ?


PS: Which upload side i could use for a save file without registering there ?

edit: save file d'ld Danemark1131_01_09.7z
 
Last edited:
People who aren't your sons can only be nominated for kingdoms of which they are de jure vassals.
 
grommile said:
People who aren't your sons can only be nominated for kingdoms of which they are de jure vassals.
Click to expand...
Then why can i still nominate finish landed vassals for denmark who are not my sons and non-finish vassals who are not my sons either for Finland ?
The two cousins are now landed (neither finland nor denmark dejure though), but i couldnt nominate them as unlanded for Finland before as well and the current nominee for both is not dejure of either and he's not my son.



edit: added save file link

The guys i wanted to nominate are Hartmutt and Sigtryg Estrid, but both are only for available for Denmark.
Also, i could change succession law for Finland which began with gavelkind, after creating it, just right away and didn't need to wait ten years.
 
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I´m a little confused but I think that only can choose people with rights, I mean, perhaps your cousins don't have legal rights for Finland. They aren´t in your genetical tree as principal descent branch because this you can´t choose him.
Try to grant them a title of your realm.

Good luck!
 
OT on maintenance: (Paradox staff, can you please somehow warn us if you're doing a cache clean. I feel like back in the 90s again, when Word or Excel crashed and everything written got lost (*waves fist*)
edit: okay saw your warning, sorry. Maybe make it bigger and please tell how long it might take or ....sigh i don't know.
Whatever, as long as my coffee machine still works i'm fine. ;)

BACK on Topic:

- Hartmutt and Sigtryg Estrid become available for Finland (after both being landed outside dejure Finland) after giving them the Duke of Finland title. Being born by a legitimised bastard king can't be a reason then.
Why then is Svend available being only a count of Mecklenburg ? Again, he's my nephew, not my son.

Well it seems while cousins can be nominated for my main title, they can't for my second, unless they have a title for it (even though they are landed outside) ?
What sense does this make ?



edit: I can even nominate cousins of second grade /greatcousins too my main title, but no cousin for my second. Arrgh. Is that WAD/WAI ? Any reference/link ?
I haven't played elective with two king titles before, so i have no idea if that happened on earlier patches as well...edit: or if it is cause the game started with 1.10 ?
 
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grommile said:
People who aren't your sons can only be nominated for kingdoms of which they are de jure vassals.
Click to expand...

In my experience, that's not even close to being correct, though I really don't know what does make people eligible. It's a bit of a mystery.

I just loaded up a save, in 1.101, of a game I had played in 1.10. I'm the King of Ireland and Wales. Both are elective. I also hold a duchy title which is de jure in Scotland, which is also elective, and in 1.10 I could vote for that king too... But in 1.101 I don't seem to be able to. Hmm, didn't know that changed, but OK.

For Ireland and Wales I generally can vote for the same person, but there are some exceptions. My heir in both currently is a Irish duke of my dynasty, who is a far away enough cousin that he's just "my kinsman". He's the duke of Connacht and has two counties in Ireland and two in Scotland, but no land in Wales, but he's eligible to be nominated there. So it's definitely not just your immediate family and de jure vassals. I can also vote for the throne of Ireland a kinsman who isn't eligible for the throne of Wales, who has no land in either country (he's the Duke of Acqutaine by marriage, but that's it), but I can't vote for his son for either. I'm pretty sure I could vote for the Duke for Wales in 1.10 so something might have changed there too. But the only reason I can see he'd be eligible for Ireland is that he's a Prince of Ireland because his father was King, so maybe that's it.

For Wales it looks like I can vote for my children (both sons and daughters, the gender law is agnatic-cognatic), a bunch of Irish dukes, and the duke of Cornwall, who is a vassal of Castille. I hold one of the Wales duchies, the guy who holds Munster also holds the other, so there are no independent Welsh dukes, but I can vote for any Irish duke regardless of whether they have any land in Wales or not. In Ireland, where the gender law is agnatic, I can vote for my sons, all the Irish dukes, the aforementioned Prince, and a kinsman courtier who was the grandson of a previous king, so isn't even a Prince, but does have a weak claim on the Kingdom through his mother, which I guess would have to be the reason.

So yeah, it's complicated. If it wasn't for the Irish dukes being eligible for Wales, I'd say it might be all de jure vassals of the level below the title, your sons (and daughters with right gender law), and anyone who has a strong/weak claim on the title. Maybe the de jure vassals of your primary title are also eligible for your second title, but not the other way around?
 
Soo regarding my issue...

Sorry, my cousins had claims on denmark so this explains that. So no cousins eligible, unless they have claims.

For Finland it seems i can nominate any duke of my realm, foreign dukes of dejure finland and relatives down to nephew and potentially anyone (limited to dynastic relative i guess) with a claim.
For Denmark it seems i can nominate any duke of my realm, relatives down to nephew or aynone with a claim. That explains the aforementioned greatcousin. (no foreign dukes with direct dejure territory, thus not mentioned)
So the same for both.

Are the nephews/nieces only applicable as they have claims ? I assume so. edit: Meneth' Wiki says nephews and nieces, so 2 level dynastic relatives.


OKAY, so i can nominate my dynastic kids, grandchildren, siblings and their kids (nephews/niece), any duke in my realm or dejure and anyone with any claim on it.
Aha. Fixed...in my mind.

:happy::cool:


edit: So the only thing missing in Meneth' Wiki were the claim holders and the dynastic part and that was were my confusion began. :laugh:

WAIT, why can i nominate my first born non-dynastic daughter ?
I can't do so with my other non-dynastic ones.
Because she's first-born or because she's landed, though only a non dejure countess ?
 
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Aardvark Bellay said:
OKAY, so i can nominate my dynastic kids, grandchildren, siblings and their kids (nephews/niece), any duke in my realm or dejure and anyone with any claim on it.
Aha. Fixed...in my mind.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think you're correct, when it comes to vassals, that it's any vassal in your realm of the next lowest title, plus any de jure vassal of the next lowest title of the title that's being voted on. I didn't think of that, but it fits what I'm seeing in the Ireland/Wales game I mentioned. However, in that game I can't nominate any siblings or nephews/nieces of my current ruler. None of them have any claims on the throne, because our father (or grandfather for the nephews/nieces) was never the king (my current king was a cousin of the previous king, and held a duchy title, so he was eligible). I assume you can only nominate family members other than children (and grandchildren?) if they have a claim, as would be the case if your current king is a son of a previous king.
 
Aardvark Bellay said:
...............

WAIT, why can i nominate my first born non-dynastic daughter ?
I can't do so with my other non-dynastic ones.
Because she's first-born or because she's landed, though only a non dejure countess ?
Click to expand...

Reading succession_laws.txt, it seems as she's landed.

@blindxOr Sorry i couldn't investigate on your case. Regarding your last post above, i doubt that, as i have nephews and nieces without a claim i can still nominate.
 
You must have created/aquired Finland after your main branch already broke off from the cousins. I'm guessing your last common ancestor was ONLY the king of Denmark, and therefore they have no claims on Finland and are therefore ineligible to be elected without a duchy title.
 
Alyiakal said:
You must have created/aquired Finland after your main branch already broke off from the cousins. I'm guessing your last common ancestor was ONLY the king of Denmark, and therefore they have no claims on Finland and are therefore ineligible to be elected without a duchy title.
Click to expand...

Thanks yes about that, well one of the reasons ultimately. See post #7. Edited it for clarification.
My non-dynastic first-born daughter, while having no claim, seems only to be eligible as she is landed. Any potential non-bastard, non-excommunicated dynastic sons/daughters are eligible no matter what.
 
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