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unmerged(365384)

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Aug 17, 2011
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www.nblackburn.me
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
I have been very much excited for the release of this game and it looks great but I can't help feeling somewhat concerned as to some of the decisions that were made...


  • [*]The wheels on the bus (and other vehicles) certainly don't go round and round (such a small thing but it was missed when animations for other aspects like doors opening and passenger actually getting on the were added)
    [*]All vehicles seem to have headlights on all the time.
    [*]No way to edit/delete profiles (without editing config files) and editing the selected ones just adds a new profile.
    [*]The tutorial doesn't feel as intuitive as before.
    [*]It is possible to scroll the environment by holding down control but an option to do that without in the games settings would be welcome.
    [*]Menu interface doesn't feel as polished as before.
    [*]Not possible to register the game for steam users as they don't have a CD key as such.
    [*]Doesn't seem possible to connect to any of the online game sessions.
I am sure it will still be a great game and I will enjoy it and so will many more but I do wish some of the points I listed were looked into as they will be the ones that grind at me after a while.

Congratulations to the development team, you have done it again and released yet another awesome transport simulator that is detailed but still enjoyable and fun to play. Best of luck with the games success and you defiantly have my support.
 
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I think some of these points will be resolved very quickly and imagine that we will see a refined UI in general in the future.

The Tutorial is indeed rather lacking for anyone who hasn't played CiM1 and again, hopefully in time it will be improved on. I am just pleased to see that the team have managed to push out a relatively functional sandbox title and imagine they will happily fine tune it over the coming weeks and months.

Some people have played down the graphics but from my initial impression the extra depth of 'crafting' the world requires a somewhat simplified approach to the look of the game.

The Steam CD key thing is apparently common to all Paradox titles so don't worry about that one.
 
Some suggestions I'd like to add:
  • Keep the thing with Rightlick + Mouse Wheel = fine rotation but add hotkeys for the 45° rotation so rightclick can be used to close the build menu (like every other game does).
  • As people said before: The roads shouldn't appear in the underground view. In addition I'd make the grid thinner and (maybe) not casting shadows.
  • Add a key for closing all open windows.
  • Rightclicking a text link in one of the menus should center the camera on the clicked object so you don't need to open another menu.
  • Since buildings in the editor are categorized into themes, why not add painting themes to the map like you paint price zones (but with a smaller brush) in order to influence the auto building generation.
  • I don't know if there's a way to hide the influence circles from the stations but you should be able to hide them. IMO coloring the buildings in CIM1 was a better solution.
  • I'm having trouble distinguishing between the light green and the medium green color of the ticket prices.
  • I'm not too far into the game but let's say you want different times on different days on one route's timetable - do you have to create a new route and select all the stations again? If yes, there should be a way to clone a route or add multiple entries (start time, end time, interval, selected days) to one timetable. Another option would be to enter these values for each day independently (so you'd see the form elements exactly four times).
  • It's great that you can center the camera on a vehicle, even if it moves. However, if you zoom in and tilt the camera, the vehicle is out of focus. This should be fixed or better: give us the ability to pan the camera while the camera follows the vehicle (great for movie-making).
  • A key to snap roads into 45° angles at intersections would be useful if there isn't a way to do this already.
  • It'd be nice to access the options menu from the editor.

I hope you agree with these points!
 
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  • Camera needs object collision appied as it currently colides though everything.
  • Alt+Tab causes trees to morph into cardboard cut-outs.
  • Timetable interface needs improving as it feels like using Excel (not fun).
  • Screen gets cluttered with windows to easily.
  • Selecting a cim and pressing the down key several times after the lowest camera pan level causes the camera to lock vertically.
 
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Strongly agree with this:
Some suggestions I'd like to add:
  • Add a key for closing all open windows.
  • Since buildings in the editor are categorized into themes, why not add painting themes to the map like you paint price zones (but with a smaller brush) in order to influence the auto building generation.
  • I don't know if there's a way to hide the influence circles from the stations but you should be able to hide them. IMO coloring the buildings in CIM1 was a better solution.
  • A key to snap roads into 45° angles at intersections would be useful if there isn't a way to do this already.

I am also missing possibility to look at world from the 1st person view (hopefully mods will add this like in CiM1).

Agree also with moving view by mouse, not with CTRL.

But the headlights are probably OK, more and more countries have this as obligatory at daylight too.
 
Because of the new way of adding metro systems, seeing the roads from underground is very useful. An option to hide them is a must. An alternate to showing roads would be to show a silhouette.

I just tried upgrading my vehicles at a depot. It was not pretty. The list of vehicles inside a depot has no useful information on what each vehicle is. I bought new ones to slowly roll out the old ones, and the old ones couldn't get into the depot.

I needed to upgrade my depots because they were getting full. It was also not pretty. What I did was build a new depot and try to transfer the line over. I was able to delete the old depot from the queue and add the new one, but it didn't work cleanly. In the end, I ended up having to delete one of the lines and doing it over again from scratch, while another transferred over much better.

An autosave would be nice.
 
Some suggestions I'd like to add:
As people said before: The roads shouldn't appear in the underground view. In addition I'd make the grid thinner and (maybe) not casting shadows.

Rather than not appear at all, it would be nice to be able to toggle them on and off at will. Sometimes roads are a good reference point to have. Or maube have roads slightly transparent and not selectable with any tool.

Also, it would be kinda usefull to be able to snap elevated metro tracks to the road underneath (again, should be toggable because you will need freeform for some corners).
A third level of depots, with even higher capacity, would be great. I used sandbox mode to build a cross city line, and 10 trains aren't enough to provide a good service.
 
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- Depot, vehicle, stop upgrades would be a great addition in a patch, rather than having to delete and build from scratch.
- I feel there should be some sort of rule that determines whether a new vehicle gets sent on a route or whether a vehicle finishing up its current route starts again. This should have something to do with the conditionof the vehicle ie. if vehicle is under x% condition, send new vehicle if one is available in depot. (This only applies when setting first and last stop the same on a route and having the depot on a loop nearby
- Trains should have reverse at end of line feature, having to build a loop is ridiculous, especially when building elevated railways in a city
- Depots should not have to be included in a route. They should be placed independently and vehicles should have service intervals or require service when they get below a certain percentage. When this percentage is reached the vehicle calls at the depot the next time it passes through.
 
- Depots should not have to be included in a route. They should be placed independently and vehicles should have service intervals or require service when they get below a certain percentage. When this percentage is reached the vehicle calls at the depot the next time it passes through.

It seems that the depot system, which is much more realistic than the "fix anywhere on demand" system of TT, is actually too complicated for most of the playerbase. Oh my.
 
- Depot, vehicle, stop upgrades would be a great addition in a patch, rather than having to delete and build from scratch.
.
Once you have the better stop selected to build, hover over the stop info (the little icon that shows waiting passengers) and click on it..It will confirm if you want to upgrade the stop and it will do so.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions! I think there are many good ones. Sorry for the wall of text, I tried to answer everyone!

"The wheels on the bus (and other vehicles) certainly don't go round and round (such a small thing but it was missed when animations for other aspects like doors opening and passenger actually getting on the were added)"
This might be impossible to add at this point, we have put most of the detail on top of things because usually the camera sees the tops closely.

"All vehicles seem to have headlights on all the time."
This was a choice we made, that's how headlights have to be used in Finland. It's illegal to drive without your headlights on.

"No way to edit/delete profiles (without editing config files) and editing the selected ones just adds a new profile."
I will add this issue to our fix lists and we will see what can be done.

"The tutorial doesn't feel as intuitive as before."
We did a lot of work with the tutorial, I think it's one of the hardest things to make in any game. Could you specify what feels worst in the tutorial?

"It is possible to scroll the environment by holding down control but an option to do that without in the games settings would be welcome."
Edge scrolling will be added in the next update within a few days.

"Menu interface doesn't feel as polished as before."
This might be because CiM2 is so different from the first game that we decided to re-do the whole menu and not save everything from the old one. The interface you see is actually our third version, we really put a lot of effort in it, but I do admit it's not perfect. If you have some specific issues, I'll see what we can do!

"Not possible to register the game for steam users as they don't have a CD key as such."
This is an issue with Steam currently and we can't do anything about it, I'm very sorry. As soon as it's resolved, we will make a post. I hope it's soon!

"Doesn't seem possible to connect to any of the online game sessions."
There's an issue with modem settings that we are looking into just now. An update will be available soon!

"Keep the thing with Rightlick + Mouse Wheel = fine rotation but add hotkeys for the 45° rotation so rightclick can be used to close the build menu (like every other game does)."
The hotkeys are currently not in our plans, but I'll look into adding them.

"As people said before: The roads shouldn't appear in the underground view. In addition I'd make the grid thinner and (maybe) not casting shadows."
I'm currently planning a fix for the underground view, these are good suggestions!

"Add a key for closing all open windows."
Can be done, I'll add this to my list.

"Rightclicking a text link in one of the menus should center the camera on the clicked object so you don't need to open another menu."
Do you mean like choosing a depot or a vehicle?

"Since buildings in the editor are categorized into themes, why not add painting themes to the map like you paint price zones (but with a smaller brush) in order to influence the auto building generation."
This is an interesting idea, it's not our priority at the moment, but I'll definitely add this to my wish list.

"I don't know if there's a way to hide the influence circles from the stations but you should be able to hide them. IMO coloring the buildings in CIM1 was a better solution."
The catchment area circles only show when the station is chosen and when stations are built close to it.

"I'm having trouble distinguishing between the light green and the medium green color of the ticket prices."
The shades are probably too similar, this will be fixed!

"I'm not too far into the game but let's say you want different times on different days on one route's timetable - do you have to create a new route and select all the stations again? If yes, there should be a way to clone a route or add multiple entries (start time, end time, interval, selected days) to one timetable. Another option would be to enter these values for each day independently (so you'd see the form elements exactly four times)."
I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but there's a "copy from line X" feature so you can use the same timetables on many lines. If you want one line to act differently at different times, the timetables will handle that, you can customize them and freely add starting and ending time and on what days to use a timetable.

"It's great that you can center the camera on a vehicle, even if it moves. However, if you zoom in and tilt the camera, the vehicle is out of focus. This should be fixed or better: give us the ability to pan the camera while the camera follows the vehicle (great for movie-making)."
I'll look into this issue. Just to make sure I understand you, you want to "ride the vehicle" and look around at the same time?

"A key to snap roads into 45° angles at intersections would be useful if there isn't a way to do this already."
I'm not sure if this can be done, it might be very deep in the game logic, but I'll consult our programmer!

"It'd be nice to access the options menu from the editor."
It definitely would ;P This is a bug and will be fixed.

"Camera needs object collision appied as it currently colides though everything."
I feel this might make moving the camera too hard, with many high buildings it would be tricky to navigate.

"Alt+Tab causes trees to morph into cardboard cut-outs."
This is a bug and will be fixed.

"Timetable interface needs improving as it feels like using Excel (not fun)."
I'll see what we can do.

"Screen gets cluttered with windows to easily."
The close all windows button might help with this, it's coming.

"Selecting a cim and pressing the down key several times after the lowest camera pan level causes the camera to lock vertically."
This seems like a bug, I have to try if I can make it happen and determine what causes it.

"Depot, vehicle, stop upgrades would be a great addition in a patch, rather than having to delete and build from scratch."
Currently you can upgrade stops and depots, just choose the type you want in the build menu and place it on top of the existing stop. The closest thing to upgrading vehicles would be to buy new ones to the depot and sell the old ones, the new vehicles will automatically be used as soon as a line demands a vehicle.

"I feel there should be some sort of rule that determines whether a new vehicle gets sent on a route or whether a vehicle finishing up its current route starts again. This should have something to do with the conditio nof the vehicle ie. if vehicle is under x% condition, send new vehicle if one is available in depot. (This only applies when setting first and last stop the same on a route and having the depot on a loop nearby)"
I'm not sure if I understand you, now the game works so that when a vehicle is in poor condition, it will finish the route and go to the depot and a new one will be sent. There's might be a bug, but I've never seen any with this feature.

"Trains should have reverse at end of line feature, having to build a loop is ridiculous, especially when building elevated railways in a city"
You can also use another depot to reverse the train.

"Depots should not have to be included in a route. They should be placed independently and vehicles should have service intervals or require service when they get below a certain percentage. When this percentage is reached the vehicle calls at the depot the next time it passes through."
The depot system was a design choice we made very early on. We felt having lines connected to specific depots gives the game more depth and a tactical element it wouldn't have with individual depots.
 
Wow, did I see this right and every single suggestion / problem brought up here was answered?
I'd honestly pay double the price for the game just to show you guys how I appreciate that sort of honest and open communication.
 
It's really a minor thing, but Karoliina said this in dev diary about lines and timetables:

Tooichan, line numbers can be changed. When you rename the line so that the name includes a number, that number will be used as the new line number. This way you can have some extra to remind you which line is which, like for example "North-South 102" and on the map the vehicles will display "102" as the line number.

However, it does not seem to work this way. I can change line name to "52 S" for example, but it still displays as "1" or whatever it was before. It even has separate fields for "number" and "name", however you can only select number from a list, not enter one.
 
However, it does not seem to work this way. I can change line name to "52 S" for example, but it still displays as "1" or whatever it was before. It even has separate fields for "number" and "name", however you can only select number from a list, not enter one.
It works fine for me...You can't put letters in the "number" field. You can type the number in the field, dont use the drop down list.
 
I'm sorry my earlier instructions were incorrect, in the end we had to do it so that there's a separate field for the number and the name. I was hoping for a more flexible solution, but this is what could be done in the end. We also made some changes to the line number box on top of the vehicles to give more room to the line number, so long numbers should fit well now.
 
Is there a way to deselect buildings? If I have a busstop selected there's no way to go back to the normal cursor without hitting escape or close the build-menu altogether. This was Z in original CiM.
 
Wow, I didn't expect you to make a comment on that, CO! I hope I don't sound too demanding!
"Rightclicking a text link in one of the menus should center the camera on the clicked object so you don't need to open another menu."
Do you mean like choosing a depot or a vehicle?
Yes but I thought mostly about minor things like links to the places where people travel to. Opening a window for that just to click on that center-camera-icon seems a bit tedious. I'd rather get the information about that building from the tooltip.
"I'm not too far into the game but let's say you want different times on different days on one route's timetable - do you have to create a new route and select all the stations again? If yes, there should be a way to clone a route or add multiple entries (start time, end time, interval, selected days) to one timetable. Another option would be to enter these values for each day independently (so you'd see the form elements exactly four times)."
I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but there's a "copy from line X" feature so you can use the same timetables on many lines. If you want one line to act differently at different times, the timetables will handle that, you can customize them and freely add starting and ending time and on what days to use a timetable.
Now I'm not sure if I understand correctly but there isn't a way to get different times on different days, right? I thought of something along the lines of this:
fSfR8VZ.jpg

Here you can select different times for each day (unless the day is deactivated)

kbYDOqH.jpg

And here you can add multiple entries (even though you don't probably need that much customization)

EDIT: Color me stupid! I didn't know the buttons at the top were different timetables. I thought those were presets. Explains why vehicles were dispatched when the main timetable said something different. Since these UI mockups took quite a while to create, I don't delete this part of the post. ;)
"It's great that you can center the camera on a vehicle, even if it moves. However, if you zoom in and tilt the camera, the vehicle is out of focus. This should be fixed or better: give us the ability to pan the camera while the camera follows the vehicle (great for movie-making)."
I'll look into this issue. Just to make sure I understand you, you want to "ride the vehicle" and look around at the same time?
What I meant is this:
3pdlYii.jpg

When you follow it and look down, you can see the vehicle (left), if tilt the camera it's out of focus (middle) and if you could pan the camera while following, you could get great shots like the right image.
This option isn't really needed, a height-fix for the camera as it is right now would be clearly enough. I'm just not sure if you can really "fix" it because the camera usually doesn't move that close to the streets (I guess because you saved polygons on the faces that face down).

"A key to snap roads into 45° angles at intersections would be useful if there isn't a way to do this already."
I'm not sure if this can be done, it might be very deep in the game logic, but I'll consult our programmer!
I thought about this again and adding a toggle-able grid where spline points and object origins snap to might be the best solution
 
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