The Pesants are Revolting

lizardo · Oct 6, 2012

Seriously.

I had a powerful and benevolent USA, with almost max benefits and just in the last few years of the game underwent complete revolt and revolution.

This is a problem. Revolts are out of hand.

First of all, way V2 composes army brigades is inane. Each brigade is ideologically and socially pure. No sane government filters for such characteristics because it's suicide.

What happens is that those units revolt and you start losing your armies. Secondly, killing off revolutionaries has no effect other than to disburse the immediate army. That has no effect on the local population, which is unlikely in the extreme.

All revolutionary armies are painted the same no matter their ideology. What they should do instead if fight each other.

Unlike EU3, successful revolutionaries revert back to peasant status when they win, leaving the nation vulnerable to the next opposing group, who when they win revert back to peasants leaving the nation vulnerable to the next opposing group, who .....

I'll call this "revolt pulsing". After a few rounds of this you don't have much of a nation left.

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How army units are populated needs to be seriously, and quickly, redone.

Military units of a successful revolution need to be retained after the revolution.

If the government form has the authority, it should be able to try to kill off any remaining opposition.

grommile · Oct 7, 2012

Um. I'm sorry to say this, but if rebels in a Paradox game are giving you trouble, you need to examine how you're playing the game. I have no idea what you're "doing wrong", because you haven't provided any hard data, but there is always a reason why your POPs revolt.

Ice Cold Killa · Oct 7, 2012

Make sure you keep your militancy low, that's why they revolt.
Try to pick actions that won't get the people mad, and listen to them.
Also, lowering taxes might help in the long run.

Chamoisking · Oct 7, 2012

In my UK world conquest game, i have 600M POP and only 0.25 militancy average but they still revolt with 600 brigades every year. It's impossible to keep everyone happy when there must be some unemployments here and there. I have 1000 brigades so the revolutions ussually were put down in just 1-2 months.

moldeh · Oct 7, 2012

Chamoisking said:
In my UK world conquest game, i have 600M POP and only 0.25 militancy average but they still revolt with 600 brigades every year. It's impossible to keep everyone happy when there must be some unemployments here and there. I have 1000 brigades so the revolutions ussually were put down in just 1-2 months.

How is this a good example? 0.25 avg mil with 600m pops means that you can have millions at 10. It's perfectly possible to keep everyone happy.

unmerged(41660) · Oct 7, 2012

I also think there are too many revolts. In my Germany game I got millions of communists every now and then, I have also experienced the same with the USA.

I agree there must be rebellions in the game but having millions of people rebelling every other year despite peace and prosperity, low taxes, 8 hours working day, freedom of speech etc feels wrong. And they never have the slightest chance against the army. A full scale communist revolt is something you do when you are desperate and the oppressing regime is weak; it's not something you do on a full stomach during your eight hours of leisure when you can write a letter to your newspaper instead without getting shot at.

On the other hand there could be more nationalist uprisings, perhaps with more sophisticated armies.

lizardo · Oct 13, 2012

Given all the nice things I'm doing for the populace there shouldn't be any militancy. The purpose of a democracy is that the population has a political voice and accepts the outcomes because those outcomes are legitimate. Yes, there are groups that don't care about legitimacy but they tend to be very small when legitimate political expression exists. This doesn't seem to be factored in.

But I'm much more concerned with how the army brigades are filtered to have uniform political and social compositions, and that all of the military units of successful revolutions disappear leaving the nation vulnerable to the next group. these are real sins.

1] Militias or rebels of conflicting purposes should fight.
2] Military units of successful revolutions should continue to exist after the revolution.
3] Nationally recruited military units should be composed of a mixture of the population as much as practical.
4] Killing off of rebels should result in fewer rebel populations.

unmerged(281557) · Oct 13, 2012

d98mp said:
I agree there must be rebellions in the game but having millions of people rebelling every other year despite peace and prosperity, low taxes, 8 hours working day, freedom of speech etc feels wrong. And they never have the slightest chance against the army. A full scale communist revolt is something you do when you are desperate and the oppressing regime is weak; it's not something you do on a full stomach during your eight hours of leisure when you can write a letter to your newspaper instead without getting shot at.

In complete accord. What bothers me the most is the fact, that there are only a few indirect measures that one can take against raising militancy. Playing Germany, that often results in 20 different nationalist uprisings (Bremen nationalists, Hamburg nationalists, Hannoveranian nationalists, ...). This is not only historical nonsense but also does not reflect the actual public opionion at all.

Viljainen · Oct 13, 2012

The problem in my opinion is that even though you keep most of your people happy, there are always people with high militancy around, especially in a large nation. No matter what you do, these people will always revolt even if they have no chance of winning against the army which leads into annoying rebel whack-a-mole.

The rebellion system in Vicky 2 is an improvement over the system in EU3 where the rebellions just appeared by chance in individual provinces but the rebels should also consider if they have a chance of actually winning. I think a good solution would be to create a set of events for high militancy people where they cause small scale trouble such as sabotage and strikes without taking up arms and dying against armies 10 times larger than their "revolutionary guards".

fenisnad · Oct 13, 2012

I have the same sort of thing playing as the US in a pretty standard way. However, because of my military, they aren't a threat - the biggest revolt was 200 or so brigades. Since they are spread out, they aren't a big problem; after the first few, I just put some armies on "hunt rebels".

I, too, think there should be ways for rebels to strike in a more meaningul way - there are some provincial events related to revolt risk - without rising up in armies.

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The Pesants are Revolting

lizardo

Major

grommile

Field Marshal

Ice Cold Killa

Sergeant

Chamoisking

Captain

moldeh

General

unmerged(41660)

First Lieutenant

lizardo

Major

unmerged(281557)

Second Lieutenant

Viljainen

First Lieutenant

fenisnad

First Lieutenant