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Thread: A Paradox 4X Space Game?

  1. #1

    A Paradox 4X Space Game?

    I bought Galactic Civilizations 2 recently, and many aspects of the gameplay left me wanting to quit and go play a Paradox game like EU3 or HoI. The thing is, I want to play a space game, but I also want the gameplay flow of a PDS style strategy game. I can't imagine playing a game of GC2 for a week straight the way I've played games of EU3. Paradox normally develops historical games, but have they ever discussed the possibility of a "realistic" 4X space game?

    One of the main things I dislike about GC2 is the tech tree. I don't like the presentation of it, the structure of it, the fiddly-ness of it, or the way it feels totally cartoonish and unrealistic. It makes me yearn for a sci-fi 4x with the solid feeling of a HoI3 style tech system. Practicals, theory, and a lot of the other HoI3 style tech would be right at home in a space 4X. I also like the way the HoI tech system feels like it has "inertia", like the weight of your previous tech/production decisions (or decisions made before you started playing) continue to have a serious impact on your tech development.

    I also didn't care for the ship customization system. Ships feel like they're constantly outdated and the player is constantly fiddling with ugly, cartoonish components in an attempt to optimize them. A ship in HoI3 feels like something you can feel proud of when it rolls off the line, and you know certain parts will be automatically upgraded as your technology improves.

    Am I alone in thinking Paradox could bring various design concepts from its historical games to the 4X space genre and create a great sci-fi game with that unique Paradox charm?

  2. #2
    Lt. General tului's Avatar
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    I dunno, they might be able to make a decent space game...I doubt it though. Given the sad state of affairs of naval combat and navies in general, I'd say they couldn't. No offense Paradox.

    I still can't really get into Sword of the Stars 1 and Sword of the Stars 2. What I want is Master of Orion 2, redone with a modern engine.

  3. #3
    Lord Chairman Bad_Haggis's Avatar
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    A paradox Space game AWSOME! just don't make it turn based for the love of god, the best ones (apart from Galactic Civilisations II) arn't. Sins of a solar empire is one of my favorate games of all time, and if it a much more complex Government and Economy sytem I would say it would be my favourate game.

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  4. #4
    Field Marshal Cybvep's Avatar

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    GC2 is a very good classical 4X game and a much more challenging one in SP than any of PI's games. I cannot believe that you are complaining about graphics in a game like this BTW. The UI was ok IMO. They also have unique tech tress for every race (assuming that you have the expansions) and there are many gameplay options... Still, a 4X game developed by PI could be interesting. Do we need it, though? There are not many grand strategy games on the market and the PI makes real-time games, not turn-based ones. They excel in doing historical GSGs and there are still hundreds of possibilities left in that area...

  5. #5
    Lord Chairman Bad_Haggis's Avatar
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    TBH apart from going over what they have already done, there aren't that many time periods to do, the Dark Ages/ Late antiquity and Imperial Rome perhaps.
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  6. #6
    Field Marshal Cybvep's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad_Haggis View Post
    TBH apart from going over what they have already done, there aren't that many time periods to do, the Dark Ages/ Late antiquity and Imperial Rome perhaps.
    Who said that they cannot concentrate on shorter periods of history?

  7. #7
    Captain jaxx2009's Avatar
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    I think PDS should focus on History and not the future.
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  8. #8
    Maybe PI should do a fantasy or alternative history game.

    I mean, if they did a game like Rome, EU3 or Hoi3 with a realm in the depth of Star wars/Lord of the Rings/Mass Effect universe
    That would be awesome, Crusader Kings mod of Game of Thrones is a good example of such a thing.

  9. #9
    Success depends on forethought videonfan's Avatar
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    I agree with jaxx2009 here

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGlint View Post
    I bought Galactic Civilizations 2 recently, and many aspects of the gameplay left me wanting to quit and go play a Paradox game like EU3 or HoI. The thing is, I want to play a space game, but I also want the gameplay flow of a PDS style strategy game. I can't imagine playing a game of GC2 for a week straight the way I've played games of EU3. Paradox normally develops historical games, but have they ever discussed the possibility of a "realistic" 4X space game?

    One of the main things I dislike about GC2 is the tech tree. I don't like the presentation of it, the structure of it, the fiddly-ness of it, or the way it feels totally cartoonish and unrealistic. It makes me yearn for a sci-fi 4x with the solid feeling of a HoI3 style tech system. Practicals, theory, and a lot of the other HoI3 style tech would be right at home in a space 4X. I also like the way the HoI tech system feels like it has "inertia", like the weight of your previous tech/production decisions (or decisions made before you started playing) continue to have a serious impact on your tech development.

    I also didn't care for the ship customization system. Ships feel like they're constantly outdated and the player is constantly fiddling with ugly, cartoonish components in an attempt to optimize them. A ship in HoI3 feels like something you can feel proud of when it rolls off the line, and you know certain parts will be automatically upgraded as your technology improves.

    Am I alone in thinking Paradox could bring various design concepts from its historical games to the 4X space genre and create a great sci-fi game with that unique Paradox charm?
    I completely agree.
    I have also looked for a decent Space/futuristic strategy game that can be played in mulitplayer, but the gaming world doesnt have anything to offer when you have been spoiled by Paradox. I just try some games and always gets fed up and return to Paradox like a crack addict.

  11. #11
    Paradox Forum Manager Administrator Castellon's Avatar
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    Well until Paradox provides you with your ideal game, you can try Space Empires IV, you can even play it for free on Gamersgate Void.
    It is a bit dated but you can get a whole lot of mods including ones that update the graphics. My only issue is that to fill the screen I have to manually change Resolution to 1024x768.
    Although there is even a mod that runs it in a window. They also made the modding very easy even for beginners, so if it is not what you are looking for perhaps you can mod it into the game you desire. For MP they have a system called simultaneous movement. Basically everyone puts in their moves for the turn and then they are resolved. IIRC Diplomacy has similar mechanics.
    I have been dealt a good hand in life, now I am just looking for a few more cards!

  12. #12
    Studio Manager Paradox Dev Team Johan's Avatar
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    I rather dislike the common space 4x games as they feel like "all species are the same with a few bonuses". kinda like star trek universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan View Post
    I rather dislike the common space 4x games as they feel like "all species are the same with a few bonuses". kinda like star trek universe.
    Please continue on this line of thought..

  14. #14
    Lord Chairman Bad_Haggis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan View Post
    I rather dislike the common space 4x games as they feel like "all species are the same with a few bonuses". kinda like star trek universe.
    That's why we want a paradox one .
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  15. #15
    Luftrauser Darkath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan View Post
    I rather dislike the common space 4x games as they feel like "all species are the same with a few bonuses". kinda like star trek universe.
    In a paradox game, i assume there would be several "Species group" and you would have an "Alien tolerance" modifier for species living on your planets

    By the way, if Paradox ever make a Sci fi game, don't do a 4x, but rather a Graaaaaand Strategy Game ... in space !

  16. #16
    Major Variton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan View Post
    I rather dislike the common space 4x games as they feel like "all species are the same with a few bonuses". kinda like star trek universe.
    Even "distant worlds", which is imo the most realistic feeling of space games, is plaqued by this.

    Although making a realistic grand strategy space GAME is quite hard. What are the chances of actually encountering species with the same level of development, let alone 8 of them?

    The game should be more like sandbox exploration game where wars should be waged against various earth factions and encountered alien life would be more or less primitive (the other alternative being kind of a game killer)

    But why PDS would make the jump into something like this I wouldn't understand.
    - On the boat since The Release of EU1 -
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    Interested in extremely well thought of realistic hardcore near future SCIFI setting? Check out 2300AD. Mankind has just started to colonize nearby starsystems and encountered the first alien species

  17. #17
    Field Marshal Cybvep's Avatar

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    The same could be said about most strategy games, including the PI's ones.

    The only differences between Germany and Italy in HOI3 are the location of these countries on the map and starting tech levels/OOBs.

    The only differences between France and Carthage in CIV5 are 2 unique buildings/units and starting location on the map.

    The only... [insert whatever you want here.]

    At least some 4X games have unique tech trees for various races.

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Don_Quigleone's Avatar
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    I'd like a space strategy game that was limited to the Solar System and where the game started in roughly the present day, and you might see China and the USA fighting for the best asteroids.

  19. #19
    One option to solve the "tech parity coincidence" is making the different factions all humans. It could be a Colonization style game where each faction is supported by a nation, group of nations, or corporation back on Earth, and events on Earth determine what resources you receive from home and relations with the other colonies.

    In the same way that the event and triggered modifier systems in EU3 deal with the Reformation, Crusades, civil wars, and Westernization, in a grand space strategy you would have event chains to deal with common sci-fi scenarios like the social impact of human life extension, advancements in AI/robotics that produce sentient robots capable of replacing most human labor, futuristic government types, discovery of primitive species, discovery of advanced alien relics or technology, and contact with an advanced alien species that could be hostile, benevolent, or indifferent.

  20. #20
    Field Marshal Don_Quigleone's Avatar
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    Basically, you could easily make a game like "Europa Universalis: In Space!" And it would work fairly well. I think the key is adopting a limited preset map, like other paradox games. Don't make games with interstellar travel. Sci Fi grand strategy limited to the solar system are non-existent.

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