+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: [ExpPac suggestion] Replace GP badboy with European balance of power

  1. #1
    Captain Manifestant's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonDeus VultEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEuropa Universalis: RomeVictoria 2
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Heartland
    Posts
    301

    [ExpPac suggestion] Replace GP badboy with European balance of power

    Dear Paradox,
    I hold in high respect your games, particularly Victoria 2. Pardon me, but current infamy system is totally out of place in age of Concert of Europe. Great powers supported balance, maintaining mutual security. Balance generally depend on population in Europe and industial might of counrty. Thanks to it, the rest of the Europe could exist. Almost all of the European wars happened on the score of GP imbalance. Often because of material weakening of someone Great power, the neighbours (GPs) fill void with their authority or influence. If some GP became stronger, the neighbour GPs either subdued it or became stroger at the expense of adjacent minors. In game it can be realized reception of CB aquire state or CB free people.

    Italy should become Great Power only after unification (conditions of creation of Italy need to be reconsidered). France should be at war with Prussia not for preservation of Alsace-Lorraine, namely because of threat of unification of Germany. The concrete mechanics, instead of polished AI is necessary to operate. It is necessary to slow down strongly the gain of influence factor, let it be for gain influence wargoal.

    I did not get AHD only because of the lack of similar system in the game. I with readiness would buy the following Expansion Pack if there will be something like this.

    Thank you for your time!
    I'm sorry for my English.

  2. #2
    So, are you trying to say that justifying wars in AHD is broken?

  3. #3
    Field Marshal heliostellar's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEU3 CompleteDivine WindHearts of Iron III
    Heir to the ThroneVictoria: RevolutionsRome GoldSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness500k clubEuropa Universalis IVEUIV: Wealth of Nations
    EUIV: Conquest of ParadiseEUIV: Res PublicaCrusader Kings II: Legacy of RomeCrusader Kings II: Sword of IslamCrusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
    Crusader Kings II: The RepublicCrusader Kings II: The Old GodsCrusader Kings II: Sons of AbrahamCrusader Kings II: Rajas of IndiaCrusader Kings II: Charlemagne

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    The Merchant Republic of Boston
    Posts
    2,945
    I actually agree with this. For example, if Austria manages to for Grossdeutchland the major GPs should all get pretty nervous about it.

  4. #4
    Captain Manifestant's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonDeus VultEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEuropa Universalis: RomeVictoria 2
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Heartland
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by zmarcos View Post
    So, are you trying to say that justifying wars in AHD is broken?
    The justification CB system would allow to begin war only.
    I'm sorry for my English.

  5. #5
    Just a thought. If you add a lot of infamy to the decisions that lead to the formation of poweful nations (this is easily done through modding) causing the bad-boy factor to surpass the limit, wouldn't that lead to other great powers DOWing you? This would certainly resemble a war to reestablish the balance.
    "I have no fear, i have no hope, i am free" inscription on a greek writer's tombstone.

  6. #6
    General Hibernian's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis 3Divine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionNaval War: Arctic Circle
    Rome GoldSemper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedMount & Blade: Warband
    Crusader Kings II: Legacy of RomeCrusader Kings II: Sword of IslamCrusader Kings II: The RepublicCrusader Kings II: The Old GodsCrusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
    Crusader Kings II: Rajas of IndiaCrusader Kings II: Charlemagne

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    2,153
    PDM has a system where if you go way over the infamy limit all the other Great Powers will attack you, simultaneously. Something like that would be good to have in the vanilla game.

  7. #7
    The only problem with the Balance of power is it was mostly localized. In Europe France and Briton are allies but in Africa they are bitterly competing for colonies. And so on. Though if you wanted a simpler idea version you could make AI to tendencies based on ranking in industrial, prestige, and military. Though then you have to make it so at least one other GP will ally with you, for what ever reason because they would probably like to piggy back on your successes
    Fellow Nerd
    Nationality: Yankee
    Ideology: Liberal Authoritarian (I kind of hate myself)
    Issues: lassie-fare /Full Citizenship
    Religion: catholic
    Cash Reserves: UNKNOWN MONEY WANTED
    Revoltrisk: 2%
    Militancy: 0.7 (+0.1)
    Consciousness: 4 (+0.15)

  8. #8
    britain and france werent officially allies until britain joined ww1 until then they had a cordial understanding but i suppose that doesent matter, good idea about the balance of power but it might be hard to make it work.
    Last edited by spiller68; 05-07-2012 at 19:55.

  9. #9
    Well, the concept "badboy" could indeed be changed to a semi-modern balance of power concept (or just rename it).


    I'd care about the internal mechanics, though. When should the other GPs be "nervous" enough to form an alliance and DOW you? What are the prerequisites?

    Perhaps the beligerence concept of HOI3 could be somehow established resulting in an ultimate casus belli (great alliance against you just like against Napoleon's France).


    However I don't see a real problem with the current BB concept; the AI should indeed stand together and actually DOW you...the problem is it doesn't do this.

  10. #10
    Captain Manifestant's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonDeus VultEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEuropa Universalis: RomeVictoria 2
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Heartland
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernian View Post
    PDM has a system where if you go way over the infamy limit all the other Great Powers will attack you, simultaneously. Something like that would be good to have in the vanilla game.
    Your suggested system is too simple. It would be desirable more compound. I had created two events: against GP, which has amplified in Europe (but not so that all GPs have attacked it), all neighbouring GPs receive an acquire region or free people CB (if the badboy little bit more).
    I'm sorry for my English.

  11. #11
    Field Marshal heliostellar's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEU3 CompleteDivine WindHearts of Iron III
    Heir to the ThroneVictoria: RevolutionsRome GoldSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness500k clubEuropa Universalis IVEUIV: Wealth of Nations
    EUIV: Conquest of ParadiseEUIV: Res PublicaCrusader Kings II: Legacy of RomeCrusader Kings II: Sword of IslamCrusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
    Crusader Kings II: The RepublicCrusader Kings II: The Old GodsCrusader Kings II: Sons of AbrahamCrusader Kings II: Rajas of IndiaCrusader Kings II: Charlemagne

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    The Merchant Republic of Boston
    Posts
    2,945
    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSnow View Post
    Just a thought. If you add a lot of infamy to the decisions that lead to the formation of poweful nations (this is easily done through modding) causing the bad-boy factor to surpass the limit, wouldn't that lead to other great powers DOWing you? This would certainly resemble a war to reestablish the balance.
    This used to exist in V1. Forming Grossdeutchland almost ALWAYS caused a world war. I'm not a fan of things being that deterministic, but you're right that adding infamy into the decision would emulate this mechanic. I think it's really only a Germany/Austria-specific issue though.

  12. #12
    I also think a Balance of Power will be more realistic than the infamy in the game now. But a simple fix for this could be to greatly increase the infamy for taking parts of other European countries or annexing them, with the exception being core provinces which should have a reduced infamy cost. As the game is now you can in just 20-30years practicaly annex another GP and still keep your infamy under 25, thus preventing the other GPs declearing war on you. If let's say France tried this in the time period, gradualy annexing Spain or Austria, there would at some point be a alliance of the other GPs to stop it. Basically if a GP annexed or took large parts of another European country in the time period it would lead to a large European war, as we can se by the Napoleonic wars and ww1.

  13. #13
    Field Marshal heliostellar's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEU3 CompleteDivine WindHearts of Iron III
    Heir to the ThroneVictoria: RevolutionsRome GoldSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness500k clubEuropa Universalis IVEUIV: Wealth of Nations
    EUIV: Conquest of ParadiseEUIV: Res PublicaCrusader Kings II: Legacy of RomeCrusader Kings II: Sword of IslamCrusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
    Crusader Kings II: The RepublicCrusader Kings II: The Old GodsCrusader Kings II: Sons of AbrahamCrusader Kings II: Rajas of IndiaCrusader Kings II: Charlemagne

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    The Merchant Republic of Boston
    Posts
    2,945
    Quote Originally Posted by lol887 View Post
    I also think a Balance of Power will be more realistic than the infamy in the game now. But a simple fix for this could be to greatly increase the infamy for taking parts of other European countries or annexing them, with the exception being core provinces which should have a reduced infamy cost. As the game is now you can in just 20-30years practicaly annex another GP and still keep your infamy under 25, thus preventing the other GPs declearing war on you. If let's say France tried this in the time period, gradualy annexing Spain or Austria, there would at some point be a alliance of the other GPs to stop it. Basically if a GP annexed or took large parts of another European country in the time period it would lead to a large European war, as we can se by the Napoleonic wars and ww1.
    Building upon your idea (which I like)... there should also be increased infamy if you start annexing or colonizing near another GPs colonies. For example, if Russia started to annex parts of Persia, Afghanistan, Punjab, and some of the other non-UK aligned parts of Pakistan, it should freak out the UK and give some impetus for a war...

  14. #14
    Sergeant KingFred's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Orient, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    98
    In a historical sense, I think what we're aiming for is some incentive for the European GPs to maintain their scores in a narrow range of each other. If one country (say, Germany) goes on a tear and their score shoots up by double or triple, the other GPs should take notice of that and seek to curtail them. Similarly, if a SP (say, the Netherlands) decides they want to play with the big boys, the GPs should seek to put them back "in their place," so-to-speak. The balance of power in Europe is important, but it's also worth remembering that all the GPs were trying to keep other players (Sweden, Italy, etc.) from outgrowing their shoes, for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which was because the smaller nations provided convenient ways to resolve crises from time to time (Why else would Belgium end up with the Congo?).
    Location: Iowa
    Nationality: Yankee
    Religion: Protestant
    Ideology: Conservative/Reactionary
    Issues: Laissez Faire, Free Trade, Limited Citizenship
    Pop: Bureaucrat
    Cash Reserves: $100
    Revolt Risk: +2
    Militancy: 5
    Consciousness: 10

  15. #15
    Bull in a chinashop El Greco's Avatar
    Cities in Motion 2Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteHearts of Iron IIIVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House DividedEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    623
    Some sort of Balance of Power is seriously lacking in the game. In my game, Prussia beat the crap out of France, took Alsace-Lorraine, and then allied with Great Britain. By the 1850s, Great Britain and Prussia, #1 and #2 respectively, are allied. Then Prussia declared on Netherlands, eating large chunks of it, and still GB and Prussia remain allied.
    Il ne faut pas désespérer des imbéciles. Avec un peu d'entraînement, on peut arriver à en faire des militaires.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts