The only thing is, how could even the USSR defeat an alliance consisting of USA, France, Germany, Italy and Britain? (not to mention the empire)
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Thank you Arcangelus!
The bug has been fixed and new ministers file is downloadable in original post
The bug has been fixed and new ministers file is downloadable in original post
Last edited:
Thank you everyone for the praise and suggestions!
I think i'll start work on a v1.1 with events to possibly start ww2 against ussr and also a diplomatic solution to polish corridor situation.
any more suggestions would be most welcome!
I think i'll start work on a v1.1 with events to possibly start ww2 against ussr and also a diplomatic solution to polish corridor situation.
any more suggestions would be most welcome!
I don't know how likely it is that the US would get involved in a European war, unless the USSR did something aggressive toward them. Fascist Italy could stay neutral too, I'm not too sure on how much Italian fascism matches up with French, German, and British democracy anyway.
When it comes to USA, perhaps it can work with
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?606506-Business-Plot
Fascist USA as a leader of axis vs Allies that include Germany vs Soviets.
Rather silly, but could probably be interesting from gameplay perspective.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?606506-Business-Plot
Fascist USA as a leader of axis vs Allies that include Germany vs Soviets.
Rather silly, but could probably be interesting from gameplay perspective.
Version 1.1 is here! (already!)
A series of events now occur to start a WW2 between the allies and USSR
This has been added to the inital post
A series of events now occur to start a WW2 between the allies and USSR
This has been added to the inital post
Last edited:
i really do like your idea, and i implemented it in my AAR-mod-files and it probably works... i guess it's as easy as good and should become part of AAR because, it's easily presenting a nice chain of events for alternative history, but far closer to reality. An other thing i'd like to see, i'm german, is the possiblity for the Zentrum and DNVP, deutschnationale volkspartei to get the anschluss-event fired as well. pangermanism was very popular within the 60ties in OTL and even in the conservative and liberal circles of german politics.
we could even think about enabling alls german parties to get the anschluss-event, because the unification of germany and german-austria wasn't seen as it is seen nowadays. hitler and so, you know
we could even think about enabling alls german parties to get the anschluss-event, because the unification of germany and german-austria wasn't seen as it is seen nowadays. hitler and so, you know
Here are the new events:
- Sudetenland plebiscite in 1938
- Konigsberg conference in 1940, Germany gets danzig and polish corridor, this has same effect on USSR as molotov-ribbentrop pact, so russia becomes aggressive in baltic
- in 1941, USSR will demand eastern poland, poland rejects, triggers gearing up for war in UK and France and mobilisation of reichswehr in germany (same as wehrmacht creation)
- in 1942, USSR will invade Poland, UK, France and Germany will all be asked whether they join war or stay out of it
These events represent the real-life relaxation of versailles in late 1930's, even more likely considering germany's good behaviour.
The sudetenland and danzig corridor events result in czechslovakia and poland joining the allies, to represent allied assurances that no more territory will be demanded from them and also to set up WW2. Germany has to give poland military access in order for poland to have access to the sea.
The reason USSR gets angry is that western allies are becoming more influencial in their sphere of interest (alliances with czechslovakia and poland and expansion of Germany). Stalin's territorial ambitions in eastern europe (in particular war against the hated poland) can therefore not be fulfilled without war with the west. it is unlikely that USA will get involved although war in the pacific still occurs.
The WW2 events make this scenario a lot more exciting as otherwise a european war is unlikely.
Enjoy!
- Sudetenland plebiscite in 1938
- Konigsberg conference in 1940, Germany gets danzig and polish corridor, this has same effect on USSR as molotov-ribbentrop pact, so russia becomes aggressive in baltic
- in 1941, USSR will demand eastern poland, poland rejects, triggers gearing up for war in UK and France and mobilisation of reichswehr in germany (same as wehrmacht creation)
- in 1942, USSR will invade Poland, UK, France and Germany will all be asked whether they join war or stay out of it
These events represent the real-life relaxation of versailles in late 1930's, even more likely considering germany's good behaviour.
The sudetenland and danzig corridor events result in czechslovakia and poland joining the allies, to represent allied assurances that no more territory will be demanded from them and also to set up WW2. Germany has to give poland military access in order for poland to have access to the sea.
The reason USSR gets angry is that western allies are becoming more influencial in their sphere of interest (alliances with czechslovakia and poland and expansion of Germany). Stalin's territorial ambitions in eastern europe (in particular war against the hated poland) can therefore not be fulfilled without war with the west. it is unlikely that USA will get involved although war in the pacific still occurs.
The WW2 events make this scenario a lot more exciting as otherwise a european war is unlikely.
Enjoy!
hey, that sounds very good, are there any other ideas planned by you?
what you think about offering that stuff to be inlcuded into aar?
what you think about offering that stuff to be inlcuded into aar?
in reply to snoppyzero,
thanks for the feedback!
the reason that i didnt enable the anchluss event is that it was so blatently in defience of versailles. remilitarisation of rhienland etc is not as serious as anchluss so allies would propably have permitted it. Despite the widespread german public opinion in favour of anchluss, im not sure france would accept it. Hitler didnt care what the allies thought but i just cant see a democratic government that has signed (fictional) treaty of strasbourg and joined the allies, doing something that would annoy france so much. Also, im not sure whether the facist austrian regieme would want to merge with a democratic germany.
But then again, i can see your point, that the germans would be pushing strongly for it and the allies may give ground, as they do for danzig and sudetenland. perhaps there could be a plebiscite in the late 40's or earlier?
what does everyone else think?
Should anchluss be available?
replying to your second post, i havnt got anything else planned but im open to ideas.
id be quite happy to offer it to aar but im not sure how to do that!
thanks for the feedback!
the reason that i didnt enable the anchluss event is that it was so blatently in defience of versailles. remilitarisation of rhienland etc is not as serious as anchluss so allies would propably have permitted it. Despite the widespread german public opinion in favour of anchluss, im not sure france would accept it. Hitler didnt care what the allies thought but i just cant see a democratic government that has signed (fictional) treaty of strasbourg and joined the allies, doing something that would annoy france so much. Also, im not sure whether the facist austrian regieme would want to merge with a democratic germany.
But then again, i can see your point, that the germans would be pushing strongly for it and the allies may give ground, as they do for danzig and sudetenland. perhaps there could be a plebiscite in the late 40's or earlier?
what does everyone else think?
Should anchluss be available?
replying to your second post, i havnt got anything else planned but im open to ideas.
id be quite happy to offer it to aar but im not sure how to do that!
actually you just have to create seperate event.txt's and the implementation into aar is much more easy than copy and paste it all step by step
or just ask them, if they'll do it^^
yeah, you're right, but i guess the allies would much more prefere to have the anschluss of german-austria to germany instead of hurting the national souveranity of poland and czeche. And in my opinion we all forget, that even the allies knew that time, that there is no austrian country, only a german rump state, called austria, in fact it was combined before with hungary, disabling any greater german solution. and after a possible signing of a treaty of straßburg, the allies and especially the french would be more open minded for such in anschluss, regarding the fact of an aggressive acting USSR in the east. a strong buffer, greater germany here, would be preferable from a french point of view, i guess.
or just ask them, if they'll do it^^
yeah, you're right, but i guess the allies would much more prefere to have the anschluss of german-austria to germany instead of hurting the national souveranity of poland and czeche. And in my opinion we all forget, that even the allies knew that time, that there is no austrian country, only a german rump state, called austria, in fact it was combined before with hungary, disabling any greater german solution. and after a possible signing of a treaty of straßburg, the allies and especially the french would be more open minded for such in anschluss, regarding the fact of an aggressive acting USSR in the east. a strong buffer, greater germany here, would be preferable from a french point of view, i guess.
Nice events, will try them soon. About the Austrian Anschluss...you could let it be one of the prices for Germany to enter the war against the Soviet Union. I can imagine that fighting the USSR over Poland and Czechoslovakia can not be that popular in Germany itself (states created from former lands..) so I can imagine that Germany would need some motivation against the Soviet Union. In exchange for Austria an alliance and full military support...
Tim
Tim
Just played before I saw the new version was released.. Makes my planned comments unvalid, so much to say. Will try another game though.
(P.S: If you need help with AI (France keeps 'defending' itself extensively from Germany, even in alliance), or events (like peace events in an allied war against Soviet Union, more German domestic events, or Soviet offensive actions in Eastern-Europe) just give me a call. I would like to help you!)
(P.S: If you need help with AI (France keeps 'defending' itself extensively from Germany, even in alliance), or events (like peace events in an allied war against Soviet Union, more German domestic events, or Soviet offensive actions in Eastern-Europe) just give me a call. I would like to help you!)
thanks for the offer Tonie112!
I think we should wait for as many people as possible to play it through and see what sort of results the new WW2 creates to decide what sort of events to have.
Has anyone found anymore issues or have any further suggestions?
I think we should wait for as many people as possible to play it through and see what sort of results the new WW2 creates to decide what sort of events to have.
Has anyone found anymore issues or have any further suggestions?
Hey, I played your mod and it's really what I was looking for. However, I have some suggestions:
1. Choosing the democratic path in the 1933 Reichstag elections event shouldn't decrease dissent by three percent. I think such an outcome would likely cause more dissent, obviously not as much as during a Communist takeover, but nevertheless up to five percent increase. It's way too easy to burn the dissent as Weimar Germany anyway.
2. Germany's democratic slider shouldn't be automatically maxed out, considering how the Weimar Constitution was designed and that even most of the Allies don't have a maxed out democracy slider.
3. Your new minister pics lack a white frame, therefore they look kind of strange compared to the other ministers.
4. It is extremely unlikely, if not outright impossible, that the Poles would cede the Corridor, whether Germany is a democracy or not. Danzig, yes, that would be possible, but never, ever the Corridor. The Polish obsession about the Corridor was as irrational as the German obsession about it. I suggest that only Danzig should be handed over by means of a diplomatic conference, while the cession of the Corridor should inevitably require a German-Polish war of border revision, where a separate event chain would determine if the Allies stay neutral or if they intervene on behalf of Poland. This is especially pertinent if Germany gains the Sudetenland before, as, without Hitler, no appeasement takes place and the Allies wouldn't see the point in unnecessarily strengthening Germany by giving them not only Danzig, but also the Corridor, which, by this time, is primarily inhabited by Poles and aggressively claimed by a nationalist Polish government.
5. There should also be a possibility to reacquire Memel after the cession of Danzig by exploiting the OTL Polish-Lithuanian enmity. In the aforementioned hypothetical German-Polish border war, Germany could ally with Lithuania and propose to exchange Memel for a soon-to-be-conquered Vilnius.
6. In case of a social conservative government, there should also remain some events that allow a brute force approach, that would receive enthusiastic support from the still reactionary Reichswehr: Division of Czechoslovakia by Germany, Hungary and Poland (Sudetenland, South Slovenia/Ruthenia and Teschen, respectively) and puppetting of Bohemia (to Germany) and Slovakia (to Hungary). Also, as the Lithuanians just took Memel in 1923 without the formal backing of the Allies, a Nazi-style ultimatum demanding Memel should be still possible if Germany's belligerence is at 0.
However, I have some suggestions:1. Choosing the democratic path in the 1933 Reichstag elections event shouldn't decrease dissent by three percent. I think such an outcome would likely cause more dissent, obviously not as much as during a Communist takeover, but nevertheless up to five percent increase. It's way too easy to burn the dissent as Weimar Germany anyway.
2. Germany's democratic slider shouldn't be automatically maxed out, considering how the Weimar Constitution was designed and that even most of the Allies don't have a maxed out democracy slider.
3. Your new minister pics lack a white frame, therefore they look kind of strange compared to the other ministers.
4. It is extremely unlikely, if not outright impossible, that the Poles would cede the Corridor, whether Germany is a democracy or not. Danzig, yes, that would be possible, but never, ever the Corridor. The Polish obsession about the Corridor was as irrational as the German obsession about it. I suggest that only Danzig should be handed over by means of a diplomatic conference, while the cession of the Corridor should inevitably require a German-Polish war of border revision, where a separate event chain would determine if the Allies stay neutral or if they intervene on behalf of Poland. This is especially pertinent if Germany gains the Sudetenland before, as, without Hitler, no appeasement takes place and the Allies wouldn't see the point in unnecessarily strengthening Germany by giving them not only Danzig, but also the Corridor, which, by this time, is primarily inhabited by Poles and aggressively claimed by a nationalist Polish government.
5. There should also be a possibility to reacquire Memel after the cession of Danzig by exploiting the OTL Polish-Lithuanian enmity. In the aforementioned hypothetical German-Polish border war, Germany could ally with Lithuania and propose to exchange Memel for a soon-to-be-conquered Vilnius.
6. In case of a social conservative government, there should also remain some events that allow a brute force approach, that would receive enthusiastic support from the still reactionary Reichswehr: Division of Czechoslovakia by Germany, Hungary and Poland (Sudetenland, South Slovenia/Ruthenia and Teschen, respectively) and puppetting of Bohemia (to Germany) and Slovakia (to Hungary). Also, as the Lithuanians just took Memel in 1923 without the formal backing of the Allies, a Nazi-style ultimatum demanding Memel should be still possible if Germany's belligerence is at 0.
Last edited:
Just found a minor issue with konigsberg event.
you can rectify it by deleting the highlightes section from the day of decision folder in events,
go to the konigsberg conference event and the following from the trigger section:
control = { province = 222 data = POL }
control = { province = 226 data = POL }
control = { province = 230 data = POL }
control = { province = 181 data = U08 }
control = { province = 261 data = LIT }
Alternativly you can just download the new version from the first page!
you can rectify it by deleting the highlightes section from the day of decision folder in events,
go to the konigsberg conference event and the following from the trigger section:
control = { province = 222 data = POL }
control = { province = 226 data = POL }
control = { province = 230 data = POL }
control = { province = 181 data = U08 }
control = { province = 261 data = LIT }
Alternativly you can just download the new version from the first page!
Last edited:
Very impressive work! Keep it up! So we can soon ALL enjoy a "better" Pre-WW2 Germany .
Btw: I got your mail, and have already responded! Cheers!
.Btw: I got your mail, and have already responded! Cheers!
in response to K W
1. I agree about the dissent thing, i was planning to change that
2. the reason that the democray slider is maxed out is that the weimar voting system was fully proportional, i guess the president's emergency powers aren't that democratic, so two sides to that argument i guess!
3. the minister pictures dont have a border, apologies, although at the minute im focusing on getting all the events right etc as minister pics is not the top priority
4. i can see your point about polish corridor. would poland still be so uncompromising if britain and france were putting pressure on them to accept german demands? im sure the czechs didnt want to give up the sudetenland but when the allies decided it would happen, it did. a democratic germany allied to britain and france might have even more leverage with the allies. but who knows!
5. the konigsberg conference event does also include germany getting memel
6. i agree that a conservative government potentially could play hardball although the extra series of events would be complecated. it would make a konigsberg conference event less likely and this event is pivitol in sparking the ww2 event in the chain of events. i would say that was a reactionary conservative government in power from 1930-33 until hitler came in and they made no attempt to get back any land and were prepared (although not happy) to work within the contraints of versailles. it is obviously speculation whether or not a dnvp government would have pursued a similar foreign policy to hitler. personally, i doubt it because hitler was uniquely opportunistic and reckless in his pre-war foreign policy but its just a matter of opinion!
Thanks a lot for the suggestions, you've raised a few points i hadnt thought of!
1. I agree about the dissent thing, i was planning to change that
2. the reason that the democray slider is maxed out is that the weimar voting system was fully proportional, i guess the president's emergency powers aren't that democratic, so two sides to that argument i guess!
3. the minister pictures dont have a border, apologies, although at the minute im focusing on getting all the events right etc as minister pics is not the top priority
4. i can see your point about polish corridor. would poland still be so uncompromising if britain and france were putting pressure on them to accept german demands? im sure the czechs didnt want to give up the sudetenland but when the allies decided it would happen, it did. a democratic germany allied to britain and france might have even more leverage with the allies. but who knows!
5. the konigsberg conference event does also include germany getting memel
6. i agree that a conservative government potentially could play hardball although the extra series of events would be complecated. it would make a konigsberg conference event less likely and this event is pivitol in sparking the ww2 event in the chain of events. i would say that was a reactionary conservative government in power from 1930-33 until hitler came in and they made no attempt to get back any land and were prepared (although not happy) to work within the contraints of versailles. it is obviously speculation whether or not a dnvp government would have pursued a similar foreign policy to hitler. personally, i doubt it because hitler was uniquely opportunistic and reckless in his pre-war foreign policy but its just a matter of opinion!
Thanks a lot for the suggestions, you've raised a few points i hadnt thought of!
Just one point:
Yes, they probably would. The difference between the Poles and the Czechs is not only that the Polish government was much more radical and aggressive than, let's say, comparatively moderate Czech politicians like Beneš, but also convinced (OTL against Nazi Germany!) that they could beat panzers with cavalry, again due to a degree of nationalism one could probably call delusional, but probably not that astonishing considering that Poland's existence was repeatedly contested by all of its neighbours and that, in contrast to Czechoslovakia, Poland wasn't designed as a multicultural, but monocultural state where the Poles were undoubtedly dominant. Looking for scheming rationality within Polish interbellum governments is probably as hopeless as looking for benevolence within a Nazi government. For example, Rydz-Śmigły and Mościcki were often more bothered with the mystical invokation of their knowledge of the "true intentions" of Piłsudski instead of making realpolitik. The Poles even dared to start a partial mobilisation of their forces in March 1939 to prevent Nazi Germany from taking Danzig in a surprise attack.
When it comes to the Corridor, the Poles were as stubborn as the French in reclaiming Alsace-Lorraine.
Yes, they probably would. The difference between the Poles and the Czechs is not only that the Polish government was much more radical and aggressive than, let's say, comparatively moderate Czech politicians like Beneš, but also convinced (OTL against Nazi Germany!) that they could beat panzers with cavalry, again due to a degree of nationalism one could probably call delusional, but probably not that astonishing considering that Poland's existence was repeatedly contested by all of its neighbours and that, in contrast to Czechoslovakia, Poland wasn't designed as a multicultural, but monocultural state where the Poles were undoubtedly dominant. Looking for scheming rationality within Polish interbellum governments is probably as hopeless as looking for benevolence within a Nazi government. For example, Rydz-Śmigły and Mościcki were often more bothered with the mystical invokation of their knowledge of the "true intentions" of Piłsudski instead of making realpolitik. The Poles even dared to start a partial mobilisation of their forces in March 1939 to prevent Nazi Germany from taking Danzig in a surprise attack.
When it comes to the Corridor, the Poles were as stubborn as the French in reclaiming Alsace-Lorraine.
You make a convincing argument! The dilemma i have is trying to find a way for Germany to reunite east prussia with the rest of the country whilst avoiding a war with Poland that would result in the destruction of Poland. It is essential that Poland exists for the purposes of starting the new WW2 but there also needs to be a way for Germany to get back some of their territory.
Not sure how to reconcile this!
Not sure how to reconcile this!