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Thread: The Steam whine thread :)

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    The Steam whine thread :)

    Steam only release did I misinterpret this comment?

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    Turbo Tape Games Dev JanH's Avatar
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    The Steam whine thread :)

    Quote Originally Posted by goodwood2 View Post
    Steam only release did I misinterpret this comment?
    Oh here we go

    At this time, it looks likely it will be on Steam only. There are nobody else providing the download infrastructure or network APIs that we really need. As soon as this changes (Origin?) there will be alternatives. This decision has been taken by Paradox Interactive, not us, but we fully agree with it.

    It is important to note that the game will still sell in a number of different outlets. It is not unusual to find good bargains on other web sites and even in brick and mortar outlets, which are then activated on Steam.

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    Exclamation

    I only have one comment to make about Steam: it would be only worth it if one plays often in multiplayer. However, since it is obvious that there is a singleplayer version of the game that will take a great amount of time to play, I believe that Steam is not a viable option. Right as we speak, I am not in a country without an even (not even close!!!) decent Internet access, which means that it will be impossible for me to connect. Steam should only be activated once a player wants to go online and play against other NWAC players...

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    Master of Orion delra's Avatar
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    I'd rather not be seen defending Steam around here.... but in all fairness, you can always play Steam games in offline mode.
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    Question

    For that, you need to download it in the first place and then it needs to authenticate your version of the game (i.e.: CD Key) online at least once before you can start it and play. I do not believe that it would be possible where I live. Do not forget that in the event you loose you personal data for some reason, then you have to re-do it again... Also, if you want to play offline, do you not need to connect first for authentication and then choose to play offline? If I recall correctly, I think that is the way it was done before...

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    Turbo Tape Games Dev JanH's Avatar
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    krazyfrenchman,

    If you have no net connection whatsoever where you live, I can see a problem. However, you only have to be online exactly once, download the client and be able to activate the game, to play it in offline mode for the rest of your life. Considering you are on this forum, I think that should work.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JanH View Post
    krazyfrenchman,

    If you have no net connection whatsoever where you live, I can see a problem. However, you only have to be online exactly once, download the client and be able to activate the game, to play it in offline mode for the rest of your life. Considering you are on this forum, I think that should work.
    While I agree with most of this comment I would like to add that there is a chance this may not be the case. Obviously as a producer of a product you cannot please everyone, doing so would only result in a poor product. That said, for a game like this I suspect there will be many potential customers who run on more dated/austere setups than a modern gamer.

    With regards internet this may mean that while they have the bandwidth at home to post on forums they may NOT have the bandwidth and speed to download an amount of data measured in GB's rather than MB's. It may also mean that while they have a good home setup they may not have an internet connection at all... for all the talk about the modern world having full access to the internet I know at least 10 families who don't have access to the required internet to download a game.

    I do hope that you will consider these people... digital download is okay but again steam does lack many features like allowing you to properly burn your own hard copies of the data to another storage device etc.

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    With all of the hassle with getting a steam account, registering a bank account and downloading and so on (seriously I am lazy), I'm glad to hear that you will maybe release it through other channels. I'm not ready to get into that swamp for just one games sake, sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutoni View Post
    I do hope that you will consider these people... digital download is okay but again steam does lack many features like allowing you to properly burn your own hard copies of the data to another storage device etc.
    If you take a look at JanH's first post he does say that the game will be available through other outlets, including physical copies that only require activation on Steam (ala Empire/Shogun Total War, Paradox's Cities in Motion, etc). So in theory buying the game that way you only need sufficient bandwidth to download the Steam client and activate your game, and then download any subsequent patches )or DLCs) through the client. Also, Steam does have a manual backup/restore feature for installed games?

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    I have little to no idea what steam is. From what I hear about it though I don't like the sound of it.

    Pluses of Steam:
    Its easier to play online

    Negatives:
    It ties me to a middle man corporation who I have to rely on and encourages me to buy other games from them.

    If the above negative is correct its a interest killer for me. I want nothing to do with steam if its what I think it is.
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    Turbo Tape Games Dev JanH's Avatar
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    Pluses of Steam:
    * Tried and tested API for online gaming and much more, with services that would cost millions of NOK to develop for each independent developer - available for free
    * Immediate, automatic updates and patching
    * Integrated game verification and cheat detection
    * Direct contact with the world's largest online gamer base, with a lot of social media features, ladders and matchmaking. Even if we created a similar service (which we can't possibly afford to do), you'd have to sign up somewhere to find other people to play, and then every game would need its own service for you to sign up to.
    * The easiest game installation process in the known universe
    * Once you own the game, a crash is no problem, and switching to a new PC is no problem. Just re-download and re-install. You can have it installed on as many PCs as you want.
    * Sharing of savegames between different locales, if you want to (and you will not lose them in a crash, as above).
    * Achievements. Yeah, we're suckers for them even if we don't like to admit it
    * Lots of free data feedback to developers: what play modes and maps do gamers like, what are they doing in the game, etc, etc. This makes it possible to give players more of what the majority want, not what the loudest people want - and god bless the loudest people
    * Direct, immediate feedback on crashes/bugs. If Steam detects several identical crashes, we are told about it immediately, so we can fix it immediately without relying on gamers reporting it accurately and immediately
    * Direct sharing of mods and other user-created content with the entire community. You create a mod, you share it and get others to play and comment. Modders may even get paid for mods.
    * Thin, memory-effective non-intrusive client

    & loads more

    This is, to be very frank, a case of a very vocal minority giving Steam a bad rep with, mostly, quite weak arguments (many based on what they hear others say).

    The vast majority of PC gamers have been voting by actually selecting Steam (before it had anything resembling a monopoly) for a long time, and now Valve and Steam virtually owns the PC/Mac online game distribution market. It's because they have made by far the best business model and product available here and now. It is not only best for game devs; Turbo Tape Games consists entirely of avid gamers (so do Paradox). We were Steam fans before any decision had been made (or were forced upon us by reality) to be Steam exclusive. It is so easy to purchase, use, organize and play your games.

    I do wonder if any of you actually remember when we bought a game on CD/DVD, hunted around the net for patches and updates, struggling endlessly to apply patches in the right order, ended up with another version than our mates so we could not play them online, the games had annoying CD-always-in-tray "copy protection", and the turnaround between bugs and patches were weeks or months not days or hours. I am sure you do. Do you miss it?

    Whenever one company dominates, however, there is always going to be detractors. Thus these threads in every single game forum on Paradox Plaza, yet millions rush to Steam to download games and DLCs from them, because, SteamWorks simply works.

    My sincere apologies if this rant upsets anyone. There are obviously people with no net connection who would have an easier time with an alternative, and we definitely would want to accommodate everyone who wants to play our game. We have limited resources and time, however, and there is no feasible alternative for us currently.

    I'll leave this thread open, but I am not going to comment on this issue again, at least not before we have more practical information. We'll look into solutions for those who can't use it with Steam, but we are a small company with very limited resources.

    Thank you for your continued support and patience, and again, apologies if this decision upsets anyone, but it is not possible to do it any other way and still get this game to market in time.

  12. #12
    Steam = malware that the customer pays to install.

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    I have no issues with Steam and will gladly purchase NWAC from there.
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  14. #14
    Sounds fair enough to me... As I said you can't please everyone and catering a hard copy for the 1 person one a farm in the middle of nowhere who wants the game isn't going to work for a small business. As it stands I will use steam to download the game..... Then again you guys already know that

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    Everyone's Comrade th3freakie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bugwar View Post
    Steam = malware that the customer pays to install.
    Malicious software, really?

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    Quote Originally Posted by th3freakie View Post
    Malicious software, really?
    I agree in the most part.
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  17. #17
    im fine with steam

    btw you dont have to pay to download steam! you can download your malware for free!

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    Everyone's Comrade th3freakie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midge View Post
    I agree in the most part.
    Can you provide any example of how Steam is malicious?

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    Major Midge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by th3freakie View Post
    Can you provide any example of how Steam is malicious?
    My friend got Batman: AC free because he bought it with a graphics card on steam. He played it once everything was fine. Next time he tried to play it he couldn't because Steam had deleted a whole load of files in the game and he had to either buy a new copy or re-instal (I can't remember).

    My fundamental point is that I don't trust a client that messes with your files without your permission. However if the Devs at NWAC have decided that they want to release through Steam I am not going to be able to change their minds and my primary concern (another provider other than Steam) has been addressed in the Devs posts so I'm happy.
    Your life is your life donít let it be clubbed into dank submission.
    Be on the watch there are ways out.
    You canít beat death but you can beat death in life, sometimes.
    And the more often you learn to do it the more light there will be.
    Your life is your life.
    Know it while you have it.
    The gods wait to delight in you.

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Midge View Post
    However if the Devs at NWAC have decided that they want to release through Steam I am not going to be able to change their minds and my primary concern (another provider other than Steam) has been addressed in the Devs posts so I'm happy.
    Alright, so we are back to the principals again: to which other provider are we referring? Is it a four quarters for a dollar type of thing?

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