All independent realms can be seen. So thats why some counts are visible. The one in Poland is most likely independent barony as it doesn't own the whole county. Dukes and Kingdom coat of arms are shown even if they would be vassals.
That doesn't seem to be the truth, I see some count shields, that are vassals, like Fyn. I suppose it's a count as it's shield is smaller. Indenpendent barony? Is that actually possible in the game (haven't read anything either confirming or denying it)?
Am I the only one who likes red Byzantium? Even if purple is the regal colour, red feels way more Roman to me.
Am I the only one who likes red Byzantium? Even if purple is the regal colour, red feels way more Roman to me.
You and Johan, apparently, so that's quite a weighted vote, sadly.
Thinking of red as the Roman colour is understandable given that it's the Hollywood colour for all their armies and so forth (and if you're showing classical Rome, it'll be with armies hanging around, almost inevitably. They used different colours depending on the legion), but it isn't more than speculation on what'd look "cool", where-as Purple stretches back to pre-Republican kings of Rome (thus the taboo during the republic, and given the taboo for that using red for the Republic is more sensible). Picking something purely because "it looks nice" to some over a clearly more historical alternative for the Empire (with heirs literally "Born into the Purple") is in the same vein as Scottish kilts and horned Vikings but on a much more subtle and obscure scale. (Edit) And on another point regarding the subject: Why would you want it to be red when almost all of Eastern Europe is red? It already needs variety there.
pretending that red has no precedent in Byzantium seems a little off to me.
Which I never said or suggested and actually stated the opposite for both the Republic and that some legions did use it, it just wasn't a standardized colour as it's displayed in movies, because there was no such thing. Those are also the Crest and Motto specific to the Palaiologos dynasty that come into play 60 years after the Fourth Crusade. At the start we're still thirty years away from the first one.![]()
The first recorded use of byzantium as a color name in English was in 1926(underlined by the poster)
You can go back as far as you'd like. I'm not seeing any grand purple flags here. Going further back before the introduction of the double eagle in the 11th century, I'm seeing flags like this: http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5066/71320975hf0.gif
Where's the purple flags?
What are you talking about? That's a Labarum (a military standard) that you appear to have just sort of.. MS Painted into a Flag-like thing. They didn't use flags, so obviously they aren't going to be used to show how obvious "red" is. If you're throwing around Standards then why no make it Blue? Because your Hollywood notion won't fit that? It's almost as sensible.
Apart from this discussion, what is your opinion on making it red when almost all of Eastern Europe already is?
Early Byzantine Empire flags had nothing to do with the two-headed byzantine eagle. Early Standards (as they are displayed in the Cretan Naval Museum in Chania), depicted either the Cross with four B-shaped firesteels Each letter B stands for Vassileus Vassileon Vassilevon Vassilevonton (King of Kings ruling over Kings) or the Greek abbreviation (Christogramma in Greek) for Christ (Christos/XPICTOC in medieval Greek) on red, yellow or blue field
Gold, Blue, Red, but not purple. Perhaps I haven't been clear. I want you to show me a purple flag, but you seem to be resistant and instead talk about Hollywood, when I'm posting links to historical flags. Now to be perfectly clear, please post some official and historical purple flags of the Byzantine state for me. Thank you.
I really don't see how purple is a clearly more historical choice here. "Born in the purple" either referred to the color of a room in the imperial palace, or the color of court clothing. It's a marker of wealth, not an identification of purple with the Roman Empire. In general you purple = rich in the ancient world, not just Rome (Persian and Egyptian rulers also loved their purple robes).Picking something purely because "it looks nice" to some over a clearly more historical alternative for the Empire (with heirs literally "Born into the Purple") is in the same vein as Scottish kilts and horned Vikings but on a much more subtle and obscure scale.
Impossible. Not because you're correct, but because they didn't use flags in the way you think of them.
Impossible. Not because you're correct, but because they didn't use flags in the way you think of them. The "source" you quoted merely states that these are variations used for military standards. Military Standards. Purple is the Imperial Colour. You could signal that you were a pretender to the throne and an enemy of the state by as much as wearing purple-coloured boots. It's not something a common soldier is going to be hauling around (not to mention it is by far the most expensive, and thus most luxurious, colouring).
And the reason for bringing up cultural depictions of Rome is because you're lobbying for a Red Empire and NOT a Blue one. That shows a bias to what people happen to show in the movies and tv-shows, which is why I asked if you'd support that as a more legitimate colour than Imperial Purple, given your "Military Standards"-argument.
Looks much better this way than as solid blocks.
Picking something purely because "it looks nice" to some over a clearly more historical alternative for the Empire (with heirs literally "Born into the Purple") is in the same vein as Scottish kilts and horned Vikings but on a much more subtle and obscure scale.