Also, no colonial power would allow a 10 times larger native army, drilled and armed like a European army to exist.
Colonial Armies
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What do you mean? That it is not true that Tiny Denmark couldn't recruit 45 Strength Point stacks from Java, and transport them to Europe and take over Sweden and northern Prussia? Gee ... I would have thought that was accepted. :/
Is it possible to link regiments to the size of accepted culture officer pops on the same continent? That way you could have large native armies, but only if you spend all your NF's promoting officers.
The reasons the colonial UK forces weren't employed outside their native areas before WWI was that before then they couldn't ship them cheaply, nor did they need to use them much at all.
Actually a lot of colonial troops were employed by the British during the Boer War. In WWII if I recall correctly, the British had upwards of 500k troops employed only to keep their colonies secure. They needed to since during WWII they had a revolt in Iraq and they still had trouble in Palastine.
They did use Indians versus the Japanese in Burma and the Germans in North Africa and Italy, South Africans in Italy and North Africa (Some in the Pacific), the Ghurkas were used throughout the war and the ANZAC troops used in all theatres. Canadians were used almost everywhere. There were also many Native African troops fighting in Africa against the Italians in Ethiopia and Somaliland. None of these troops were equipped as "Irregulars", instead they had the same organization and equipment as British Infantry Divisions did. The ANZACs, also fielded naval and air forces while the South Africans fielded numerous air squadrons. The only soldier to win two Victoria Crosses in one war (in fact the only one to ever win two period) was Maori enlisted man who fought in Africa and Italy in WWII. So whatever you may believe, colonial troops were not inferior in any way to British troops.
So the idea of them being lesser quality "irregulars" historically is plain stupid...and...well I'll not say more than that. I think the game works fine the way they are. The only thing different, and that needs some work in my opinion, is the rediculously large amounts of money you acrue in the game and the cheap cost of maintenance for brigades and ships (not to mention fortifications). If you reign in the money issue, you'll find that numbers can be made more realistic. Otherwise the game is fine.
Well, some colonial forces were indeed very good troops. Such as the British Armies of India. Now, African Sahara troops is a different story, i recently recruited troops from the Libyan Desert, and they were Guards. But its nice to have em anyways, so they can defend my current land in Switzerland from those damn Frenchies!
Brycef, I'm going to have to disagree here. Yes, the British did have quite a few Indian troops, but think of the population of India. The ratio of British recruited Indian soldiers to total Indian "pops", if you will, is far less than total "British" troops compared to British pops. That is the crux of my argument about colonial troops. Yes, colonials served, but at a vastly diminished rate compared to the their total respective populations. The game should reflect this.
Also, lumping in ANZAC forces vis-a-vis British colonial troops is a vastly different discussion than talking about Epic Dutch legions from Java.
You can turn a colony into a state if you have 1 % bureaucrats of your own culture. Why not restrict recruitment of non accepted culture soldiers to 1:5. So for each 5 soldiers of a none accepted culture you can recruit 1 soldier.
Or you could simply have a limit that says that at least 50 % of your total regiments must be of your own culture. Otherwise you can't recruit bridged of foreign cultures at all.
No solution will ever be 100 % historically accurate. But I do think it is a problem that massive colonial armies can be used to fight wars in Europe. Or that GB can use thousands of Indian brigades to conquer china.
Or you could simply have a limit that says that at least 50 % of your total regiments must be of your own culture. Otherwise you can't recruit bridged of foreign cultures at all.
No solution will ever be 100 % historically accurate. But I do think it is a problem that massive colonial armies can be used to fight wars in Europe. Or that GB can use thousands of Indian brigades to conquer china.
Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa were independent countries during WW II, unlike India. Apart from that, WW II is out of the scope of this game, so I think it can´t be taken as argument. Indian troops weren´t very used during the 1836- 1936 period out of India. Indian troops were a very, very small part of the total indian population, while on this game you can recfruit vast amounts of indian population. I don´t know what was the reason for that. I guess money (as always) might be one reason, or perhaps they didn´t want to have so many indian soldiers (just in case they had second thoughts about their oath of loyalty). Whatever the reason, this game allow us to recruit huge and totally ahistorical colonial armies, and I think we all agree about that. And I guess we all agree it would be good if something was made about it in the expansion.
Do non accepted culture pops promote to soldiers at a lower rate than accetpted ones. If not could this be changed?
I never said they were. I said, money or no money, ships or no ships, the Dutch simply never had 5.000.000 Javans they could deploy to conquer the Rhineland. And nevever could or would have, regardless of any other factors. Aaaand yet...
There is a need to restrict the numbers of colonial/non accepted culture troops, either by hard or soft limitations.
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A friend of mine modded this in (or maybe increased it, I'm not sure), and it works very well. I'd definitely recommend it.
Maybe natives should get a high militancy? That would force you to recruit them with care.
Well, this generated a much bigger response than I expected. After reading through the comments, and doing a little research, I concede that having colonial armies be restricted to irregulars would not be an accurate representation. But at least we all agree that colonies should not produce as many soldiers as they do. Any suggestions as to how to implement this in-game?
Isn't this already implemented? Or is that just some of the mods I tend to use?
Actually did a bit of reading and the Brits also on purpose kept their Indian troops equipped with weapons one generation back from what they equipped their other troops up till the second world war. Many Indian troops were equipped with Snyder rifles in WWI for example, which dated back to the 1860s.
Also I stand corrected that until WWII most Indian troops were never deployed outside India. I guess after the Great War, there just weren't that many English to fight wars with so they had to use others more.
Also I stand corrected that until WWII most Indian troops were never deployed outside India. I guess after the Great War, there just weren't that many English to fight wars with so they had to use others more.
Here's a thought I had a while back: It would be rather unrealistic for countries not to train up troops in their colonies, however it is rather unrealistic the thought of, say, Ghurkas being employed as the main armies to attack European countries.
The way I see it, there should be a penalty for having colonial troops out of an arbitrary "Homeland" (So you don't have screwy things like South African troops being demoralized fighting boers, for instance) based on, perhaps, major-region based areas like Pakistan, South East Asia, etc. that can be lessened by Organization or Tactics (Fort-level and Defense-line) Army techs. Also, they should perhaps need higher literacy Officers (I can't imagine an officer only able to speak German doing well commanding Malay-speaking troops, for instance, perhaps make Officers have a little value that detirmines what languages they speak? Eh, that's probably nitpicking).
I'm kind of at a tossup as to what the outside-region performance nerf should be. The obvious choices would be discipline or organization penalties, but another thought is an arbitrary headcount limit of Colonial troops (where more makes bad nerfs to strength and increases revolt risk) under the thought that a single regiment of colonial troops would kind of see it as a half-honor that they'd be important enough to defend the homeland, but conversly see no reason to stay under foriegn banners if those banners entirely relied on them... but that's just thinking outloud, mind...
The way I see it, there should be a penalty for having colonial troops out of an arbitrary "Homeland" (So you don't have screwy things like South African troops being demoralized fighting boers, for instance) based on, perhaps, major-region based areas like Pakistan, South East Asia, etc. that can be lessened by Organization or Tactics (Fort-level and Defense-line) Army techs. Also, they should perhaps need higher literacy Officers (I can't imagine an officer only able to speak German doing well commanding Malay-speaking troops, for instance, perhaps make Officers have a little value that detirmines what languages they speak? Eh, that's probably nitpicking).
I'm kind of at a tossup as to what the outside-region performance nerf should be. The obvious choices would be discipline or organization penalties, but another thought is an arbitrary headcount limit of Colonial troops (where more makes bad nerfs to strength and increases revolt risk) under the thought that a single regiment of colonial troops would kind of see it as a half-honor that they'd be important enough to defend the homeland, but conversly see no reason to stay under foriegn banners if those banners entirely relied on them... but that's just thinking outloud, mind...
Okay, another thought. As posters have pointed out the ANZAC/European South African and Canadian troops counted effectively as British troops. Ethnic French troops from Algeria were also the same as French troops (that's a WWII example, but illustrates the point).. So heavily restrict recruitment of natives (you know, those conquered guys whoever they were) but permit those from the same racial type as the mother country to be recuited.. After all, the game already distinquishes between these types.. after a while you can recruit ethically south german guards from the middle of Africa. If the native population is thin to start with, as it was in Australia, then it quickly becomes a part of mother country displaced to where ever..
At the same time there were plenty of native troops who did very well, notably Gurkhas and Maoris.. so perhaps permit the recruitment of a reasonable number of guard brigades from certain areas.. need to stretch this for the game, so perhaps have random allocation of guard production areas..
At the same time there were plenty of native troops who did very well, notably Gurkhas and Maoris.. so perhaps permit the recruitment of a reasonable number of guard brigades from certain areas.. need to stretch this for the game, so perhaps have random allocation of guard production areas..
AFAIK, there is not such a thing, but colonies get a big penalty to generate soldier POPs. It stops France and especially the UK from getting huge armies from the very beginning (not that it stops the UK too much, but at least it stops it something). The problem comes when the colonies start transforming into states. Then you get brigades faster than you can recruit them.
PS. I think it would be more accurate if there was a penalty for getting soldier POPs out of non accepted culture POPs than just because they are POPs living on a colony. IN general terms, France should have no problems recruiting french culture POPs out of Madagascar, but few non french POPs should want to join french armies.
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Additionally; regiments tied to understrength soldier pops get a malus to reinforcespeed, perhaps that could also be used on colonial troops, and/or troops from a different continent? If the Javans get mowed down in the Rhineland it would take say three times as long to get them up to strength?