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I See, maybe for some reason that is not the winning choiche during the design of the game
Maybe for the reason that if your honor is less than 0 your character commit seppuku and the game is over, so an imprevedible tax on the plot's starting could be dangerous, we need to know the detail of the mechanism to speculate.
Isn't there a problem, if the plot is supposed to be secret, but the liege can see the "honor" score of each vassal? He might notice those missing 15 points, and know that a plot is afoot.
So, what is the benefit of plotting against, compared to just attacking your target?
You can gather help before actually attacking, if I read the DD correctly.
The problem with paying at a later point is that you might not have enough honor at that time, which creates all kinds of problems. However, should you leave the plot, you get almost all of it back again.
If you think you can beat your opponent without help: none whatsoever. But you are usually in a situation where help would be appreciated, and instead of sitting around waiting for someone else attacking that target, why not try to coordinate it? Plots are also a great way for several small clans to gang up on one big threat. With the internal plots you can also get more people with you once you split off compared to using the diplomatic option.
If one does not have enough honor at that time to pay it is as in real life: If you are already a completely dishonorable person you cannot lose anything any longer, apart from your life of course.
BTW: Such a character will be in deep trouble for other reasons normally .Or you could allow negative honor which means that the character will have to get back into positive numbers before he can actively buy something with honor again. If his lack of honor does not become his fate before.
If one does not have enough honor at that time to pay it is as in real life: If you are already a completely dishonorable person you cannot lose anything any longer, apart from your life of course.
Or you could allow negative honor which means that the character will have to get back into positive numbers before he can actively buy something with honor again.
I think Seppuku is waiting for the character having honor less than 0.
I was going to say this. Plot is a good idea, but for it to remain threatening and secret, the honor loss should come when you unveil it. If not, as other had said, the liege know something is going on. Maybe the game should allow negative honor until the death of our current character. In that way, if you lose a plot, you are doomed, and if you win, you may have a chance to prove yourself. But being in negative honor would be extremely dangerous, especially if your lord is battling and can die at any moment.
Maybe Kenzo is right and honor will vary so much that it won´t be possible to foresee a plot.
If one does not have enough honor at that time to pay it is as in real life: If you are already a completely dishonorable person you cannot lose anything any longer, apart from your life of course.
There are still problems with this. First, since you have no idea at what point the leader of the plot intends to activate it you will need to keep that cost saved up at all time anyway, and if one plot member would not be able to pay up at the start of the plot, the plot would lose in power, which means that whoever is the plot leader would have to manually go around and make sure everyone has enough honor before taking the decision, creating a lot of anoying micromanaging. Plus there are a number of other actions that will decrease or cost honor so I don't think it will be a big problem being able to see who is plotting and not.
SInce zero honor means game over this won't work.
@Captain Gars: I really recognize the considerations.
But the fact that a plot member cannot contribute to the plot when it fires because he does not have enough honor sounds quite reasonable: It is not unrealistic that some plot members become rather a burden or at least useless because they have lost prestige or influence in the meantime.
The micromanagement of observing plot members to make sure most of them have enough honor at hand to pay seems to be acceptable for me. And I think most often most plot members will have at least 15 honor. If one does not then he simply cannot contribute. No contribution - no honor loss. On the other hand I will always nervously observe my vassals if they have lost 15 honor at once. This seems to be a greater pain.
But the fact that a plot member cannot contribute to the plot when it fires because he does not have enough honor sounds quite reasonable: It is not unrealistic that some plot members become rather a burden or at least useless because they have lost prestige or influence in the meantime.
The micromanagement of observing plot members to make sure most of them have enough honor at hand to pay seems to be acceptable for me. And I think most often most plot members will have at least 15 honor. If one does not then he simply cannot contribute. No contribution - no honor loss. On the other hand I will always nervously observe my vassals if they have lost 15 honor at once
. This seems to be a greater pain.
I just want to say, I was on the fence about this game. I'm not the hugest Japanese history buff, and I was looking at it mostly as a way to kill time until CK2 comes out.
This post changed that. I'm fully on board, and am now anticipating this release in its own right.
This post changed that. I'm fully on board, and am now anticipating this release in its own right.
Plots sound very interesting.
Will the AI offer the player to join his plots?
Is it possible to discover AI plots that are not aimed against you? For example if you are a vassal and other vassals plot against your lord, in that case is it possible to apply to join the plot, or to report the plot to your lord in hope of a reward?
Also what if you are offered to join a plot and you refuse, is it possible to report the plot to the intended victim?
Will the AI offer the player to join his plots?
Is it possible to discover AI plots that are not aimed against you? For example if you are a vassal and other vassals plot against your lord, in that case is it possible to apply to join the plot, or to report the plot to your lord in hope of a reward?
Also what if you are offered to join a plot and you refuse, is it possible to report the plot to the intended victim?
The AI will invite the player as well. There is no game mechanic to expose a plot you become aware of, but there are some event chains where details about the plot might leak or where someone can start blackmailing you or expose the plot to the target.
Thanks for the answer.
Another thing I just tought of, will plots have 'plot leaders'?
Can every plot member invite others to the plot or only the person who started the plot in the first time? Or maybe suggest to the plot leader to invite someone?
Every plot has a leader - the one who started it - and it is only he who can invite others. There is however nothing stopping you from being a member of one plot and start another one as leader with the same target.