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Thread: Ethiopia too weak?

  1. #1

    Ethiopia too weak?

    Just thinking since AAR:s and most screens I see seem to deem this nation too weak to exist. In real life they were exceptionally good at surviving considering the fate of most neighbours in Africa.

    Why are they so weak in EU3?

  2. #2
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    Most of their provinces are Muslim, while their official faith is Orthodox. This means that the Mameluks or any other nearby power can easily get to them with a Holy War casus belli without even having to convert the provinces.

    Considering that the AI will not be willing to take the stability hit to convert to Islam on it's own. Or actually being capable enough to convert it's own provinces... This means that Ethiopia will be in a state of almost civil war constantly...

    And then there is off course the tech-disadvantage.

  3. #3
    well why did Ethiopia historically survive so well?

  4. #4
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    I would say the same think, without wanting to be off-topic, about the fate of Morocco. Why did the Spanish never invaded (or successfuly) invaded them? Is that because they were allied with a powerful muslim country or because Spain was occupied with France? Or was it because there were not a so large technologic gap? Ethiopia in this game is all alone, so that might explain why they are crushed so easily.
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  5. #5
    Possible reason is that Ethiopia did not have the same antagonistic relationship to the Islamic world? Maybe tone down the aggression a bit?

  6. #6
    From what I can find it seems that Ethiopa was mostly left alone by it's neighbours. Also from this: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian%E2%80%93Adal_War) , it foriegn intervention saved the country at least once.

  7. #7
    Good Article. It certainly seems to confirm the antagonism between Ethiopia and Adal in the game so that seems realistic. What about the Mameluks?

  8. #8
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    Ethiopia's relation to the Mamluks was... complicated. You see, the Blue Nile (the source of most of the Nile's water) flows out of Ethiopia. So the Mamluks were convinced that the Ethiopians could "turn off the tap" as it were, and of course the Ethiopians encouraged them in this belief. On the other hand, the Ethiopians had a rule that their senior bishop had to be appointed by the "pope" of the Coptic Church in Egypt. The Mamluks knew this, and if Ethiopia-Mamluk relations were stressed they'd not let the Coptic pope send a new bishop to Ethiopia. These things give both sides incentives to patch up problems before they reached the stage where fighting was desired. Further, back in Mohammed's day, the then ruler of Ethiopia had sent presents to Mohammed, leading M. to write positive things about the Christians of Ethiopia. So the Muslim-Ethiopian relationship had no equivalent of the antagonism between Islam and Europe.

    Further, you have to remember that in reality Ethiopia was a heavily fortified country at the top of a mountain range. Quite difficult to conquer, even after you'd defeated their field army.

    The fighting between Ethiopia and Adal happened after the Portuguese had launched attacks against Muslims all along the east coast of Africa justified by "we are Christians and you are Muslims". So after that war had died down, some of Muslims who had been attacked by the Portuguese looked for revenge against the local Christians: the Ethiopians. But through most of the period the Ethiopian Christians and the local Muslims got along well enough that they didn't see a need for holy wars against each other.

  9. #9
    Good writeup there BritNavFan.

    Question about Eritrea, they do not seem to be represented as a cultural group or did they migrate there later? Massawa was apparently occupied by OE for many centuries.

    Btw. This seems to imply that the best solution could be the adding of Forts throughout Ethiopia?
    Last edited by dreamsurferswe; 20-06-2011 at 17:54.

  10. #10
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    Maybe putting a big penalty on the Mamluks/Ethiopia in the form an event if either declares war on each other would help.

  11. #11
    I think that Ethiopia and the Mamluks and Egypt as a whole would be better if the Coptic Chruch was split from the orthodox aqnd add some events about the relations and minorities in Egypt. Also, Ethiopia needs forts and better units and should probably have a faster tech group.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by starwarsfan541 View Post
    I think that Ethiopia and the Mamluks and Egypt as a whole would be better if the Coptic Chruch was split from the orthodox aqnd add some events about the relations and minorities in Egypt. Also, Ethiopia needs forts and better units and should probably have a faster tech group.
    To be honest, I'd say to make all their provinces 100% mountains and level 2 forts at least, but the tech group? Nah.

    The only reason they (militarily) were safe was because Ethiopia is probably one of the most easily defensible stretches of land on Earth.



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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auk Rest View Post
    Maybe putting a big penalty on the Mamluks/Ethiopia in the form an event if either declares war on each other would help.
    That wouldn't work. AI unlike players does not read forums/wikis and would have no idea such an event exists. A better idea would be an event every once in a while giving the Mamluks and Ethiopia a relation boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by gela1212 View Post
    To be honest, I'd say to make all their provinces 100% mountains and level 2 forts at least, but the tech group? Nah.
    Would work greatly at helping Mamluks maintain their new land taken from Ethiopia after they mercilessly slaughter Ethiopian army. That being said I think they should start with forts (level 1, perhaps level 2 in capital) but that wouldn't really solve their main problem - Mamlukan aggression.

    Quote Originally Posted by gela1212 View Post
    The only reason they (militarily) were safe was because Ethiopia is probably one of the most easily defensible stretches of land on Earth.
    Think in game terms, not real world. Avignon has fort level 3 but does that help them against anyone? Byzantine fort level 2 does not stop any aggressors either.

    Quote Originally Posted by starwarsfan541 View Post
    I think that Ethiopia and the Mamluks and Egypt as a whole would be better if the Coptic Chruch was split from the orthodox
    Unless Coptic Church was made part of Muslim religious group that wouldn't really help. The other suggestions are good though.
    Last edited by Me_; 20-06-2011 at 19:02.
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  14. #14
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    I'm not sure about the cultural makeup of modern Eritrea/EU3 Massawa in the EU3 period.

    The whole area was (and is) much more complicated culturally than is represented in the game. The trouble is that, for purposes of game mechanics, each culture should have a country tag associated with it (or what's the point?), and while there were many states in this area over the EU3 period, most of them (except Ethiopia and Adal) were small and not very long-lived. In general, it would be realistic to give each Muslim and pagan province in the area its own culture and its own one-province-minor potential rebel country, but do you really want to do that?

    Ethiopia should definitely have forts. (Then again, I think that all provinces should have forts, both representing local troops - it's easier to gather armies in your home territory than it is to support an army in foreign territory, so if anything forts should be available at lower tech than land units, because all peoples could and did build forts, and because the AI doesn't understand the implications of not having forts). I'd also make Ethiopia a Feudal Monarchy, and Adal a tribal federation (to reflect the fact that they were a loose and unstable alliance of many different Muslim tribes and city states.) I'd class Tigre province as Orthodox.

    If you want to get ambitious, you could add an "Oromo" culture and an Oromo state (as a possible revolter - just copy/paste Zimbabwe and change their culture, religion, capital, government to tribal federation, max decentralized and max land), make all the pagan provinces in the Horn of Africa culturally Oromo, and make Ethiopian culture its own culture group. That would reflect the problems the Ethiopians had maintaining control over their empire. After 1550, the Ethiopians had a lot of trouble with "invading" Oromo, but because the Oromo didn't keep/leave much in the way of written records it's hard to get a sense of what really happened there (where did all these invaders come from?) The way the Ethiopians tell it, it was like Ethiopia was Rome falling to the barbarian hordes.

    Finally, you could add decisions for Ethiopia to convert to Catholicism and to convert from Catholicism back to Orthodoxy, as they actually experimented with that. (They had a lot of problems with the experiment, as you might imagine a Catholic government with a mixture of Orthodox, pagan, Muslim, but no Catholic, provinces would.)

  15. #15
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    Just popping in to say I love you guys so much. I learn more from these forums then I ever learned from any history class ever. Thanks for all the interesting information, especially about Ethiopia. Its one of my favorite countries historically.

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Legendary Bard View Post
    Just popping in to say I love you guys so much. I learn more from these forums then I ever learned from any history class ever. Thanks for all the interesting information, especially about Ethiopia. Its one of my favorite countries historically.
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  17. #17
    I suggested splitting the religions because historically, the two sects are very different, and I find it baffling that they combined them, but again it is Europa Universalis not Africa Universalis .

  18. #18
    they should split them like they split sunni and shiite

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by starwarsfan541 View Post
    I suggested splitting the religions because historically, the two sects are very different, and I find it baffling that they combined them, but again it is Europa Universalis not Africa Universalis .
    If it's Europa Universalis because it's for Europe only then why did we just get an expansion devoted to Asia? :O



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  20. #20
    It really mainly added things to Europe, or affected Europe as well as asia, the Hordes do more in Europe than in Asia anyway, the only two Asian specific improvements is a fictional shogun system and a half baked faction system.

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