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Planck

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Feb 2, 2007
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[Summary question at the bottom for those who don't want to read a wall of text :) ]

Ok, so I've been playing with Argentina, with the intention of transforming it in a fascist dictatorship. At start, Bolivia occupies Argentinian cores, the Politics screen shows "3% Revanchism". I decided to leave them be, as they'd be useful later on as POPs get angry with core territory on foreign hands.

As Fascism only appears after 1905, I expanded conquering nearby states. Problem: After research "Nationalism and Imperalism", I've been getting the 'New Core' events (ID: 2560).

After the fascist ideology is enabled, I go back to check my revanchism and it's now 1%. :mad:

I assume it's calculated as a number related to the percentage of unowned cores, and as my cores expanded, revanchism diminished. Is that correct? This ruined my fascist plans.

It's not because my country's cores expanded, that old cores should be forgotten or become less important. I've had those states for much longer before they became cores, and revanchism remained the same.

This presents a problem for larger multi-state countries, say... Germany. In a real-life WW1 scenario, Germany as a whole would lose just a small part of its cores in Versailles compared to the overall size of the country, but these were so important to the people that it helped raise their revanchism.

Or theoretically in-game (ahistorical but currently possible): France comes early on and conquers, say Cornwall from Great Britain. GB then transforms lots of their colonies in states and gets new cores. Should Cornwall become less important to the British because a bunch of Indian States are now 'cores'?

So what does everyone think? Does the present Revanchism calculation make sense?


In essence: Should new obtained cores after 'Nationalism and Imperialism' decrease Revanchism level?
 
I always try to get my cores as quickly as possible, so I've never noticed this... Perhaps it should be weighted based on the value of the province? Or increase the revanchism based on how long the territory has been in enemy hands?
 
That doesn't always make sense. If a province with your cores are held by another country for 200 years, aren't you more likely to have given it up as opposed to be at the brink of war for it?
Yeah, 200 years is overkill, but you get the idea. The longer you wait, the more the people will come to accept that it's simply not Argentinian any longer..

Of course that are exceptions, but eventually "your" population get's POP'ed out!
 
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Well, consider Italia Irredenta... Dalmatia for example, was de facto ruled by the Austrians since 1816 after the Napoleonic wars, as part of the Kingdom of Illyria. In 1822 it went over completely as part of the Austrian Empire. The Italians didn't forget it, and well into the 20th century - more than a hundred years later - they still 'wanted it back' (revanchism), as seen by fascist Italy getting the coastal areas during WW2. There was also the case of Malta, some French territories in the East (ingame swapped with France after 'Cavour's Diplomacy'), etc. Heck, they even wanted the Ionian islands... even though very few Italians were actually living there.

Irredentism/revanchism was alive and well...

Edit: Alsace-Lorraine was even worst... how come the Germans wanted it even after centuries under 'French' rule? Though ingame that's not represented as 'revanchism' per se, since A-L is needed even before Germany can be formed... the concept of 'getting our people's land back' is there.

Edit 2: In game terms, I think revanchism should be calculated differently. Not as a percentage, but as a fixed number. So, let's say I have 10 core provinces on enemy hands, my base revanchism would be 10. If I get new cores, it would remain 10. If I lose 2 of these new cores, my revanchism would then be 2.

Added to that perhaps weighted according to population, time or 'value' as Einigkeit mentioned above. But not as a percentage, it doesn't make much sense... :(
 
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Treating fascism as a function of revanchism is too simplistic. The two fed off of each other, and an increase in one usually led to an increase in the other. There should be a positive feedback relationship between the two.
 
Maybe the real issue isn't revanchism alone, but the factors that go in the calculation of fascism. Revanchism is here the big factor (cause), so it influences the ideology change of the POPs a lot. Other than that, besides having a fascist party as your ruling party (which seems to be doable only by HM Goverments), the increase in fascism in the general population is negligible if you don't have a high revanchism level...

This might seem like a minor thing, but it's somewhat frustrating to try and steer your population towards a certain ideology/issue/outcome and feeling really powerless in every aspect. Sometimes I feel there should be more transparency and ways to shape your country, and not just be like a spectator... election events don't do a very good job.
 
[Summary question at the bottom for those who don't want to read a wall of text :) ]

Ok, so I've been playing with Argentina, with the intention of transforming it in a fascist dictatorship. At start, Bolivia occupies Argentinian cores, the Politics screen shows "3% Revanchism". I decided to leave them be, as they'd be useful later on as POPs get angry with core territory on foreign hands.

As Fascism only appears after 1905, I expanded conquering nearby states. Problem: After research "Nationalism and Imperalism", I've been getting the 'New Core' events (ID: 2560).

After the fascist ideology is enabled, I go back to check my revanchism and it's now 1%. :mad:

I assume it's calculated as a number related to the percentage of unowned cores, and as my cores expanded, revanchism diminished. Is that correct? This ruined my fascist plans.

It's not because my country's cores expanded, that old cores should be forgotten or become less important. I've had those states for much longer before they became cores, and revanchism remained the same.

This presents a problem for larger multi-state countries, say... Germany. In a real-life WW1 scenario, Germany as a whole would lose just a small part of its cores in Versailles compared to the overall size of the country, but these were so important to the people that it helped raise their revanchism.

Or theoretically in-game (ahistorical but currently possible): France comes early on and conquers, say Cornwall from Great Britain. GB then transforms lots of their colonies in states and gets new cores. Should Cornwall become less important to the British because a bunch of Indian States are now 'cores'?

So what does everyone think? Does the present Revanchism calculation make sense?


In essence: Should new obtained cores after 'Nationalism and Imperialism' decrease Revanchism level?
I was research about revanchism, and this is the only thing a got from a PDX oficcial site, and I know this is a old thred, but if someone in the future research something about I wish I can help.

"https://vic2.paradoxwikis.com/Revanchism" this link is the only thing PDX say about Victoria's 2 revanchism mechanics, but some days a saw a video about how to make a world conquest in Victoria 2; basically is a video with 1 hour, with a lot of content, and one of the is the revanchism, from 5:48 to 12:46 he says about "Revanchism & Jingoism".

Basically in this video we can notice that when you have a core on enemy domain for a lot of time, this territory you lose your pop primary or/and secundary culture, so you lost revanchism, I think this is the original doubt of this thread.

Hope someway I can help someone, whatever this is what I can say ;)

Link of the video I talked about:
 
It lowers not only because you conquer and gain more cores, but also because your population may grow faster than in the country that controls the cores. Keep in mind that revanchism is calculated by percentage of population in your cores that you own, not cores overall, so for example not owning buenos aires as argentina gives much more revanchism than if you would lose some irrelevant province with 1k population.