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Cold War Extension for AoD

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iceHawk said:
pss early input: cell phones need an aditional +1-2% IC and land Org bonus per tech level. This is to reflect microwave communications in ground units esp urban warfare (Chechnya & Israel esp) as well as enterprenual initiative boost to third & second world economies from enhanced telecommunications. The cell has overtaken the computer/internet worldwide as the most powerful business multiplier aft all.
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I think an even better idea is this (land doctrines)
C4I theory (Command, Control, Communications, Computers, Intelligence)
C5I theory (Command, Control, Cellular Communications, Computers, Intelligence)
each giving +5 max_organization
Gen 4 networks would enable C5I
as for the "business multiplier effect"
command = { type = free_money value = 3 }

OK, will add 2 space technologies:
1) Generation 2 Heavy Lift Rocket (for Mars)
2) Economical Satellite Launch Vehicle (Space Shuttle Alternative, such as Ariane rocket)

For nanotech was thinking (all secret weapons)
1) Early Nanotechnology
2) MicroRobotics
3) Future Weapons (to be decided)

No space elevator or space gun. The orbital bomber is already in the game.
 
nomonhan said:
No space gun.
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Aww. It would be cool to have some sort of late game super artillery. Israel considered Saddam Hussein's project Babylon guns dangerous enough to assassinate the lead researcher and seize weapons parts.

The orbital bomber is already in the game.
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I was thinking along the lines of a modern orbital or suborbital bomber with a larger payload based on Hypersoar, the National Aerospace Plane, or a Military Space Shuttle. The Mig-105 and DynaSoar would have had tiny payload capacities.

An orbital air transport would be cool, too.
 
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DeathFromBelow said:
Aww. It would be cool to have some sort of late game super artillery. Israel considered Saddam Hussein's project Babylon guns dangerous enough to assassinate the lead researcher and seize weapons parts.
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The idea actually turns out to be based on the 1943 German V-3 project. But how would you implement this in the game? It's too big to be mobile so it could not be an upgraded railway gun. The only thing that could possibly carry it would be a super-heavy battleship. It's not expendable so it could not be a missile. The G-forces involved would kill a human being, so it could not launch manned vehicles into space, and it might even destroy satellites, if used as a satellite launcher. The only thing I can think of is to fake the whole thing by creating a new custom model flying bomb or flying rocket with very high speed but limited destructive capability, and lower cost than other such vehicles. Against Israel I estimate it would only be good for terrorist attacks, and were it to become operational I'm sure the Israelis would bomb it, just like the Allies bombed the V-3 gun in WW2. I kind of suspected it was known about for a long time and intelligence services intentionally allowed it to go to 80% completion before destroying it, so that the Iraqis would waste a lot of time and energy on a useless system, rather than do something more practical like build accurate missiles.

However you are giving me an idea for a 2020 battleship.

DeathFromBelow said:
I was thinking along the lines of a modern orbital or suborbital bomber with a larger payload based on Hypersoar, the National Aerospace Plane, or a Military Space Shuttle. The Mig-105 and DynaSoar would have had tiny payload capacities.
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That could be implemented by an upgrade to the existing secret weapon Orbital Bomber. Maybe.
DeathFromBelow said:
An orbital air transport would be cool, too.
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Are you advocating a new model air transport? It would be EXTREMELY expensive to build a fleet big enough to transport a division. ONE plane would only be big enough to carry a special team for assassinations, sabotage missions or the like.


Maybe some of the above projects should just exist as a sinkhole for the USA to waste its money and research time while the rest of the world does things that are more useful.
 
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nomonhan said:
The idea actually turns out to be based on the 1943 German V-3 project. But how would you implement this in the game? It's too big to be mobile so it could not be an upgraded railway gun. The only thing that could possibly carry it would be a super-heavy battleship.
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That's what I was thinking, like the ship picture in the article I linked to. Can you give a ship artillery bombardment capability? Could you could make land-based space guns immobile like a garrison unit?

It's not a big deal if it wont work, I just think its an interesting and realistic "flavor" unit like super-heavy railway artillery, Mach 3 bombers, and orbital bombers.

That could be implemented by an upgrade to the existing secret weapon Orbital Bomber. Maybe.
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Yeah, I thought the idea of including 1964 orbital bombers was odd anyway. I mean, they never really went beyond the research phase and their limited numbers meant they would have had little impact in a war. Since they're already in the mod I thought it might be nice to have some additional 70's/80's/etc orbital bomber techs.

Are you advocating a new model air transport? It would be EXTREMELY expensive to build a fleet big enough to transport a division. ONE plane would only be big enough to carry a special team for assassinations, sabotage missions or the like.
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Ah, good point. Disregard.

That's one of the downsides to this game engine, we can't really simulate small unit tactics. Special forces are a huge aspect of Cold War and modern era warfare. Maybe rapid deployment of special forces is best simulated via doctrines. I do love the idea of para-dropping a division from the US to the other side of the planet though...
 
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You know, the more I think about it the more I think an orbital air transport can work. This is how I'm imagining the techs:

1. Rocket-Powered Research Aircraft. 1959. Represents the X-15 and other suborbital aircraft. No immediate effect.

2. Space Fighter. 1964. Represents Dyna-Soar/Mig-105. Essentially a very fast and expensive fighter with infinite range. The Dyna-Soar and Mig-105 were both conceived as military satellite launchers/killers, spy planes, and strike-fighters (though limited by a very small payload).

3. Space Shuttle. 1981. Represents large, multi-stage spaceplanes (Space Shuttle/Buran). Provides a research bonus.

Reasoning: The research that went into the Dyna-Soar lifting body design carried over to the Space Shuttle. They're essentially the same thing, an aircraft attached to a rocket. The research bonus represents the orbital work and spacecraft servicing that the Shuttle allows for. It might have failed miserably at reducing the cost of the space program, but it did allow for recovery of satellites and repairs to the Hubble telescope.

4. Spaceplane. 1994. Represents single-stage-to-orbit spaceplanes like the X-30. Allows construction of a space bomber unit, essentially a very fast and expensive tactical/strategic bomber with unlimited range.

5. Small Unit Space Transport. 2012. Provides a bonus to Marines/Paratroopers.

6. Orbital Transport. 2020. Essentially a very fast air transport with infinite range.
 
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nomonhan said:
Maybe some of the above projects should just exist as a sinkhole for the USA to waste its money and research time while the rest of the world does things that are more useful.
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Well they did have mock research projects around fooling the KGB to convince the Soviet government to waste it's much more limited resources into impossible research projects. So why not? Don't forget to have the Star Wars program as a hyper-expensive tech line that will not serve any real purpose! Perhaps you can fool the player to think it unlocks a bunch of techs that don't exist?
 
Yeah, I was starting to have similar reasoning myself but will be simpler.
I won't have an X-15. It will be
1) Orbital Spaceplane. Will either have no effect or be an expensive fighter
2) Killer satellites ( 2 levels as present)
3) Space shuttle made possible by #1 and heavy lift rocket (Saturn V) that will be inserted in the moon landing chain, date 1967
4) Orbital bomber. Only then do you actually get a plane that will deliver bombs from orbit.
Might do 5 and 6 later.

The Space Station chain will start with
1) Skylab (only requiring Saturn V) (Space Laboratory)
2) Mir (Early Space Station)
3) ISS (Advanced Space Station

The super garrison idea makes sense as a possible way to implement a super gun, provided that AoD did not suddenly make it possible for garrison units to move. The game makes no provision for range of shore bombardment, only its strength. However, a super-heavy battleship with a monster gun might finally be able to compete with the range of missile cruisers. Let's pause on its implementation and go ahead with the change of space techs.
 
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nomonhan said:
as for the "business multiplier effect"
command = { type = free_money value = 3 }
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lol & here I thought the free cash was generated by taxing the cell companies to hand over some of those billions they collect in UNREASONABLE cellphone charges :mad::rolleyes:

regarding tech images, would it be ok to supply images without the burned borders? as in the original techs? Figured by 80s we figured out how to photocopy and not set important blueprints on FIRE... :rolleyes:

23722959.png

10097652.png
 
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I want a unified style that represents a continuation of the color non-dirtied look of the Graphics Improvement Project. So you'd get a look similar to the ones I did for the heavy subs or the rail transit techs. The "unknown tech picture" is the only one with "TOP SECRET" and the burned edges. That would imply the theft of a partially burned stolen picture. Why not help out by supplying your picture using the techs_template_modern.psd photoshop template I supplied in the tech folder?
EDIT: please do not supply copyrighted pictures. I do not need legal trouble.
EDIT: Copyrighted pictures used ONLY to identify a tech team or person in 32 x 50 or 96 x 96 resolution should not give legal problems but I'm afraid the technology picture is a bit too large to qualify for that protection.

And Oh! How embarrassing! Internet was misspelled.

Re:Supergun
I tried out the idea of making it a garrison and determined it would not work. I loaded as Japan 1941 and noticed that there are a couple of garrison units that theoretically could support an attack. But when the attack is carried out, they do not show up in the battle. So the only way to get the supergun in the game is a 2020 battleship or some sort of phony rocket. Now there was a 1950s concept of an atomic cannon which could be faked as an advanced rocket artillery (not self-propelled).
 
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iceHawk said:
lol & here I thought the free cash was generated by taxing the cell companies to hand over some of those billions they collect in UNREASONABLE cellphone charges :mad::rolleyes:

regarding tech images, would it be ok to supply images without the burned borders? as in the original techs? Figured by 80s we figured out how to photocopy and not set important blueprints on FIRE... :rolleyes:
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I would rather see a whole line of internet-related technologies, which I believe has already been made? A couple of important things to the effects of internet would be a slider move or two towards democracy and even more to open society, simulating the openness of Internet regardless of what the government thinks of it.


And Nomonhan, do you have a list ready yet for what I need to do?
 
The list of conversions should be complete for 0.12
 
Samilou said:
I would rather see a whole line of internet-related technologies, which I believe has already been made? A couple of important things to the effects of internet would be a slider move or two towards democracy and even more to open society, simulating the openness of Internet regardless of what the government thinks of it.
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I like this idea. There could be a series of events like this:
The development of the internet and mobile phone technology has encouraged vast new economic and cultural growth by enabling instantaneous mass communication. Unfortunately, it's also enabling widespread criticism of our government.

Choice A: We need to censor this new technology (Causes Dissent).
Choice B: Maybe they're right (Slider move towards democracy/open society).

For additional internet techs there there could be widespread high-speed internet access and widespread fiber internet access. Maybe production efficiency should go down with faster internet access, representing all the people spending their time playing games and discussing mods online. :D
 
DeathFromBelow said:
I like this idea. There could be a series of events like this:
The development of the internet and mobile phone technology has encouraged vast new economic and cultural growth by enabling instantaneous mass communication. Unfortunately, it's also enabling widespread criticism of our government.

Choice A: We need to censor this new technology (Causes Dissent).
Choice B: Maybe they're right (Slider move towards democracy/open society).
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+1

For additional internet techs there there could be widespread high-speed internet access and widespread fiber internet access. Maybe production efficiency should go down with faster internet access, representing all the people spending their time playing games and discussing mods online. :D
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seriously, I have a univ exam tomorrow and look at what Im doing :wacko:

Other idea: new national ideas such as Environmentalism or Corporatocracy ie. as new technology and policy gets developed, it would unlock new National/Social ideas )as a side question, could a tech trigger be inserted into national ideas???
 
You can easily add about 5 computer technologies. That's a 0.13 project. I like the events ideas and think something should REDUCE production efficiency as per DeathFromBelow.

For now, I've redone the SW tree and will test the unlocks when I have more time.

Samilou said:
A couple of important things to the effects of internet would be a slider move or two towards democracy and even more to open society, simulating the openness of Internet regardless of what the government thinks of it.
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That would be a good idea for a random event, with the government having the choice of allowing more openness (-2 dissent) or clamping down (+5 dissent).

Doctrines from CWTTEP Armageddon are ported over.

Then I expect to add some nanotechs, and maybe a few doctrines like Mid-Air refueling and a few extra land doctrines.

National ideas?? That would be a VERY VERY late project. To me completion of the tech tree, graphics, databases and scenario porting have priority.
 
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I was initially thinking of reserving that for Catalonia as it exists as U00 in 3 mods. But I think it better on second thought to switch Catalonia to UA0, as I noticed the AOD people put in a lot of model pictures for the EU, and one of the 3 Catalonia modders doesn't want his material used on AOD anyway.
 
great nomonhan...I'm your work fan since Hoi2/CW21....thanks a lot for what you do...now I seriously planned to buy AOD(after buying hoi3) because I saw this 3d...now i'll wait a week or two for your next develop before buy AOD, if i do. :D
 
Jarno said:
thanks!

but does it work with the new patch?
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should be np. Even so .11 is still a developmental release - .12 which should be in full beta capability, which we should see soon.


re the space tech tree, from what I can see the 1964 mod has some good ideas - something to look for there :)


&pss; should have the revised, correct image tech tree for industry today or tomorrow - uploaded when done
 
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