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Thread: Deus Vult Improvement Pack - Discussion

  1. #221
    The Closer Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    Another update for England (and Denmark )

    Ealdgyth of Mercia, is the widow of king Harold Godwinson of England, her father is named Aelfgar (character ID = 81845)

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 123 }
    	name = "Ealdgyth"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =101925 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 81845 }
    	country = DENM
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Saxon
    	birthdate = { year = 1033 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "00419053813320"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 6
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 8
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    		proud = yes
    		indulgent = yes
    		naive_wirepuller = yes
    	}
    }
    But Ealdgyth was the sister of Morcar (duke of Northumbria) and Edwin Leofricson (duke of Lancaster). As there father is listed Alfgar (ID 5642).

    So Aelfgar and Alfgar are the same person, so I would suggest to give Ealdgyth the same father as Edwin and Morcar, but to let her keep the dynastie name of Mercia. And to remove the second Aelfgar

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 123 }
    	name = "Ealdgyth"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =101925 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 5642 }
    	country = DENM
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Saxon
    	birthdate = { year = 1033 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "00419053813320"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 6
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 8
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    		proud = yes
    		indulgent = yes
    		naive_wirepuller = yes
    	}
    }
    A shame that Drachenfire forgot this in his Welsh Expansion mod, since there is where the 2nd Aelfgar comes from

    source

    --------------------------------------------------

    There was also still a brother of king Harold Godwinson alive at that time, but he was a prisoner of William the Conquer, that brother was Wulfnoth Godwinson (born between 1036/1046 died 1094). He could be added to the game.

    --------------------------------------------------

    Another thing is King Svend Estridson (id 101515) has a lot of claims on English counties (the Danelaw I guess). I think it is best to be very reluctant with claims at the start of the scenario, since else all rulers would start with claims. Most claims at the start of the scenario are there, I believe, to force the AI in a certain direction. f.e. the claims that Robert Guiscard has on Capua and Napoli will result in the forming of the kingdom of Sicily.

    But in all my games I have never seen the Danish AI ever do something with these claims. So I would suggest to remove them. But I would give Svend a claim on the kingtitle of England. Since he claimed to have more rights on it then William. Svend was the nephew (and nearest male relative) of Canute the Great, king of Denmark, Norway and England in the mid 11th century


    --------------------------------------------------------------

    I see that Jordarelf has already put up version 1.06 , so maybe this is something for 1.07

  2. #222
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Nah, I'll merge it in
    I was considering the Danish claims actually -- good points. What I'll do is create the ducal title of York and give that to ENGL, and give Svend claims on ENGL and YORK.
    Conceivably if someone declared himself Duke of York, Svend could've enforced his claim on Jarl of Yorvik...

    Another update in a few minutes.

    //Edit: Uploaded.
    Last edited by jordarkelf; 04-11-2007 at 15:54.

  3. #223
    CAPTAIN WILDCHILD tombom's Avatar
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    The ruler of Mallorca is using a Kingdom tag, which might make him a target for muslim pledgings and is a bit weird considering everybody else is at duke level.
    "Losers " -Kaigon

  4. #224
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Which scenario?
    1066: BALE is a duchy level tag (downgraded), nonrecreatable and held by a muslim
    MALL (duchy) does not exist at scenario start.
    1187: ditto
    1337: BALE is supposed to be a kingdom (nonrecreatable).

    BALE is a downgraded kingdom tag in 1066 since it works just like a duchy in other ways (dukes can't pledge to it), and this frees up MALL for christian conquest. It was like this before, but since its ruler in 1066 was a dark culture before this engine oddity was hidden from sight.

  5. #225
    CAPTAIN WILDCHILD tombom's Avatar
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    I was referring to 1066. If it functions as a duchy I suppose it's OK but it looks a little confusing. Sorry.
    "Losers " -Kaigon

  6. #226
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    NP. With some luck his heir will be an arab (his wife and capital are), so at that point the shield will change back to a muslim crest. If not -- just wipe him out like a good Christian

  7. #227
    Captain aylo1's Avatar
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    Minor tweaks 4 DV6

    All 1066 scenario

    Char 7756 Boniface should be Bonifacio, daughter Matilda 7757 should be Matelda as they're both Italian nobles. Dynastic 101556 'of Canossa' can be 'di Canossa'

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 41590 }
    	name = "Thoros" #Kuropalates
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id = 101738 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 41589 }
    	country = C758
    	religion = orthodox
    	culture = Armenian
    	birthdate = { year = 1045 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "04000401120006"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 7
    		diplomacy = 8
    		intrigue = 7
    		stewardship = 8
    		health = 7
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		lustful = yes
    		generous = yes
    		tough_soldier = yes
    	}
    }
    Formerly Oshim, now Thoros who adopted future Baldwin of Edessa as heir. His son (formerly Hetum) now his brother Oshim whose heirs were among the nobility of Cicilica Armenia.

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 41591 }
    	name = "Oshim" #Stratopedarchos
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id = 101738 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 41589 } 
    	country = C758
    	religion = orthodox
    	culture = Armenian
    	birthdate = { year = 1056 month = january day = 1 } 
    	dna = "04040200010004"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 7
    		diplomacy = 7
    		intrigue = 7
    		stewardship = 7
    		health = 7
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		honest = yes
    		martial_education = yes
    	}
    }
    Former Stephanoso Kaukadenos at Melitene now Ghavril of Melitene whose daughters married Thoros (above), Baldwin of Edessa & Levon II of Armenia Minor.

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 20562 }
    	name = "Ghavril" #Stephanos
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =100706 } #of Melitene
    	country = C707
    	religion = orthodox
    	culture = armenian #greek
    	score = { gold = 25 prestige = 100 piety = 0 }
    	birthdate = { year = 1039 month = january day = 0 }
    	dna = "80355567119747"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 8
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 5
    		stewardship = 6
    		health = 6
    		fertility = 6
    	}
    	traits = {
    		loyalist = yes
    		tough_soldier = yes
    	}
    }
    Eldest daughter's name randomly chosen from list. 2nd & 3rd have correct names but may have been born much later as they both died in 1120s-30s. I've included them anyway. Their mother 4562 (hist unknown, so I've left 20562's spouse there) might need to be older.

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 90024 }
    	name = "Khoushoush" 
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =100706 } #of Melitene
    	father = { type = 10 id = 20562 } #Ghavril
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 4562 } 
    	country = C707
    	religion = orthodox
    	culture = armenian 
    	birthdate = { year = 1060 month = january day = 0 }
    	dna = "68040533860632"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 4
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    		ecclesiastical_education = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 90025 }
    	name = "Morfia" 
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =100706 } #of Melitene
    	father = { type = 10 id = 20562 } #Ghavril
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 4562 } 
    	country = C707
    	religion = orthodox
    	culture = armenian 
    	birthdate = { year = 1062 month = january day = 0 }
    	dna = "07020509080609"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 4
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 6
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 90026 }
    	name = "Beatrice" 
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =100706 } #of Melitene
    	father = { type = 10 id = 20562 } #Ghavril
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 4562 } 
    	country = C707
    	religion = orthodox
    	culture = armenian 
    	birthdate = { year = 1066 month = january day = 0 }
    	dna = "03060502080600"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 4
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 7
    		fertility = 5
    	}
    	traits = {
    	}
    }
    Last edited by aylo1; 07-11-2007 at 00:23.

  8. #228
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    @ Veld: Good Catch!


    Kk, downloaded Deus Vault and the current Improvement pack.


    Here are corrections:

    1066 Hastings


    Aberffraws in exile in Dublin:
    Duplicate Cynan of Dublin and his son Gruffydd in the county of Dublin. They should be tagged to Aberffraw dynasty. I think the issue is in a duplicate Gruffydd, and his father in the scenario (the origionals were either not retaged or removed when the corrected ones were added) Be sure to remove the origionals, as the claims against Gwynedd are taged to the newer characters.

    Bleddyn Mathrafal, duke of Gwynedd, should be allied with Northumbria and Lancaster, as he also participating in the Great Northern War alongside the Saxons against the Normans. Also, there is a missing character who in 1066 was the Saxon earl of Shrewsbury, Eadric the Wild, who never made it into the origional game. Until the great northern war his lands included Shopshire (Shrewsbury), the northern half of Herefordshire and southern half of Chester. I recommend however, to give Edric Shrewsbury and Chester (or Chester alone), as the former Earldom of Mercia is represented by Lancaster, so too should Edric's. In my own scenario, I have him named Eadric Silvagius (the Wild) Aelfricson (his father was Aelfric) and count of Chester and Shrewsbury. Eadric was in possession of his lands as late as 1072, when he joined William de Normandie on a campaign in Scotland.

    Bleddyn should be allied with him too. Ill post details if you wish to add him. Roger de Montgomerie did not become earl of Shrewsbury until after Eric was displaced.

    County of Murry in Scotland should also be mountains also for Ben Nevis.

    1187 Hattin:

    Dafydd Aberffraw and his family should be moved to Perfeddwld, and he should be count of Perfeddwld and Duke of Gwynedd, however Powys and Gwynedd should be untaged as his direct vassels in the start of the scenario.

    Dafydd's half brother Rhodri Aberffraw should be made count of Gwynedd at scenario start. The English court recognized Dafydd as Prince of Gwynedd (Duke of Gwynedd for the game), but Dafydd and his family were in residence in Ruddyn in Perfeddwld, as the western half was ceded to his half brother Rhodri after a dynastic civil war of sorts. So the county of Gwynedd should not be part of the duchy of Gwynedd at scenario start. Additional courtiers in the county of Gwynedd would be Rhodri's sons Tomas, Gruffudd, and Einion

    In the 17th and 18th centiry, the descendants of Prince Tomas were claimed by Sir John Wynn as his direct male line ancestors - a claim he would later have proven in court. Rhodri died in 1195.


    Owain Cyfelloig, count of Powys, and his sons should be retaged from Aberffraw to Mathrafal. The County of Powys should not be part of the Duchy of Gwynedd at scenario start.

    Rhys, Duke of Deheubarth should be retaged from Aberffraw to Dinefwr. Also, why was Dyfed made part of England? And Glamorgan should be under the direct control of Prince John Angivine in 1187, not part of Deheubarth.

    I do know that the Lord Rhys was made Henry's Justicar in S. Wales, however Welsh law was paramount in Deheubarth as it was in Gwynedd. And as professor John Davies points out, Wales was as much a part of England as was Scotland in the 12th century. So if Dyfed becomes part of England in 1187, so should Gwynedd and Scotland.

    Brittany:

    Constance of Brittany, if we are keeping her last name Breton and her culture Breton, should have her name rendered in Breton: Konstanza. Also, for a smooth transition from Konstanza, Duchess of Brittany, to her son Arthurz (Arthur), she should be taged to the Angivine dynasty. Have her middle name as her current last name.

    Furthermore, if we are going to render Arthur Angivine's name into Breton, we should consider rendering the d'Anjou or Angivine dynasty name specific for him. I can look that up.

    Jerusalem:

    Sibylla d'Anjou was born in about 1160, she is currently 10 years too old. Also, she was hereditary Queen of Jerusalem, Guy was merely the king-consort. As in Brittany, she should be made Queen and Guy as Marshal, imo.

    *lastly, Ill post updated Breton and Welsh dynasty names. It seems none were included in the improvement pack as yet.
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 13-03-2008 at 00:40.


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  9. #229
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    You're being a little cryptic.
    "Wales was as much a part of England as was Scotland in the 12th century. So if Dyfed becomes part of England in 1187, so should Gwynedd and Scotland." -- you mean, Dyfed should be made independent.
    Dyfed falls under England because Paradox made them so in DV.


    Everything up to now has been implemented, but for the future it would really help if you could give character IDs and tags as well, saves me from a lot of work.


    As a sidenote, I have included the revised Welsh and Breton dynasties a few updates ago. What version of the DVIP have you downloaded?
    Last edited by jordarkelf; 10-11-2007 at 03:27.

  10. #230
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Rebellious trait removed from northern Saxons to prevent an early suicide

    *blink* This was one of the mechanics that prevented William from overunning Scotland, Wales, and Ireland too early! lol. When one plays in Wales or Ireland, having the Saxons rebel forced William to devote resources there, and prevented an early invasion of Wales, Scotland, and Ireland!


    Sorry I was so cryptic in my last post. I was tired when I finely got the download and entered the game, and since I havent coded CK in some while, I have to remind myself how to get in there and find them.


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  11. #231
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Current and Modern Breton surnames, derived mostly from Breton origionals. Source
    http://www.gwalarn.org/dijon/noms/frame.html

    I highly recommend that Cornwall in England be of Breton culture. While Welsh and Breton are VERY close linguisticly and even culturally, Breton and Cornish were even more so. Additionally, I would remove the province of Cornwall from being part of England per se. But this is optional.


    Barz from Bard, profession, compare Welsh Bardd
    Bihan Small, decriptive, compare Welsh Bach)
    Bellec Priest (profession)
    Bescond Breton for Viscount
    Bleuzen White Flower,
    Bloc' H Beardless, descriptive
    Bleis Wolf, compare Welsh Bleddyn
    Bolloré Bay tree, from bod + lore
    Bouguennec "chubby-checked fellow", from boc' hek

    Cadoudal "valorous with the combat", from kad + uual Welsh: Cadfeal
    Calloc' H "virile" from kalloc' H
    Callonnec "courageous, which has heart" kalonek
    Calvez "carpenter" klavez
    Canévet "venerated with the combat" kad + neved Welsh:
    Cannevet "venerated with the combat" kad + neved
    Caradec "pleasant" karadek
    Caradeuc "pleasant" karadek
    Clech "height, coast" krec' H
    Cloarec "clerk, seminarist" kloareg
    Coadou "wood" koad *Welsh Coed
    Cornec "horned" kornek
    Costic "guard, guard" kost
    Costiou "guard, man of guard" kost

    Derrien "of good line"
    Dréau form derived from "trev" (village) trev, Welsh Tre

    Eostic "nightingale" eostig
    Even form derived from Ewen Ewen
    Evennou form derived from Ewen
    Evin form derived from Ewen
    Ewen

    Falc' hum "falcon" (bird) falc' hun
    Flaouter "flutist" fleüter
    Floc' H "rider, page" floc' H
    Fol "insane, illuminated" foll
    Fur "wise" fur
    Fustec "high on legs" fustek

    Garrec "which has large legs" garek
    Gonidec "farmer" goudineg
    Guellaff "the best" gwellañ
    Guen (It) "white, pure" gwenn Welsh: Gwen, modern Wynn
    Guennec "which is white, which is pure" gwennek

    Houérou "turned sour, grumpy" it hwerous

    Kalloc' H "virile" kalloc' H

    Lan "moor, monastery" and church lann Welsh Llan
    Lannurien "place devoted à holy Urien" lann + Urien
    Larzul form derived from Arthur Arthur
    Louarn "fox" louarn
    Lous (It) "badger" (animal) lous

    Madec "good, fortunate" madek Welsh: Madog, Madox
    Mainguy "warlike powerful" (dog = warlike) maen + ki
    Manac' H "monk" manac' H

    Pen "head" penn Welsh: Pen
    Penduff "black head, bad head" penn + of
    Pennec "been obstinated, obstinate" pennek
    Pensec "which has large buttocks" peñsek (love this one!)
    Péoc' H "peace, silence" peoc' H
    Penven "white head, light-haired boy" penn + gwenn
    Prigent "of good descent" + race took
    Priol "prior" (religious function) priol
    Rivoal form derived from Riwal (holy) Riwal
    Rivoalen train derived from Rioual "valorous king" laughed + gwal
    Rivoallan train derived from Rioual "valorous king" laughed + gwal

    Scoarnec "which has large ears" skouarnek
    Seznec name derived from Sezni (holy originating in Ireland) Sezni
    Yaouanc (It) "young person" yaouank
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 09-11-2007 at 16:13.


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  12. #232
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Corrected Welsh coats of arms.


    Kingdom of Wales: Inspired by Owain Glyndŵr. They were based off of the earlier arms of Gwenydd, but notice how the lions are on their hind legs, in a War Like state.

    Duchy of Gwynedd, traditional arms of the Aberffraw dynasty. These arms are already in game, but I dont remember their designated code atm, will post that shortly.

    County of Gwynedd Alternative arms for Gwynedd

    County of Powys

    Duchy of Deheubarth


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  13. #233
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    As for Cornwall province's culture:

    Cornish shares about 80% basic vocabulary with Breton, 75% with Welsh, 35% with Irish, and 35% with Scottish Gaelic (Wiki)

    Since the difference is just 5%, and Cornwall is more likely to end up in Welsh hands than in Breton ones (if either), I think it's better to keep it Welsh (for "Brythonic") -- Cornwall after all means "Welsh from Corn".

    COAs -- if you can apply the woodgrain to them, I'll put them in the COA pack. I don't have Photoshop so can't do it, and Paint.net doesn't support the template format.
    Last edited by jordarkelf; 09-11-2007 at 17:02.

  14. #234
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Since the difference is just 5%, and Cornwall is more likely to end up in Welsh hands than in Breton ones (if either), I think it's better to keep it Welsh (for "Brythonic") -- Cornwall after all means "Welsh from Corn".

    Your call, hehe. But, remember that Corn is a shared Brythonic root word between Welsh and Breton, and the Wall was the suffix the Anglo-Saxons applied to the Romano-Britons (ancestors of Welsh and Bretons) living in that area.

    Second question: Will you leave Cornwall taged to England?

    Third Question: Is it possible now to create another duchy or three? As I see it, we need:

    Duchy of the Welsh March. This was a mid to late Mideival earldom ... raising it to duchy would allow the encompasing of Herefordshire, Shrewsbury, Chester, and possibly Gwent and better reflect the inherit influence of the Marcher lords.

    Duchy of the Scottish March: Lotherin

    Duchy of the Breton March: Nantes and Rennes, the histoic march there. This would mean rasing Brittany up to kingdom level, which is more appropriate considering it was de jure an independent kingdom (though titled as a duchy) until the 15th century. Raising Brittany to Kingdom level, giving him two duchies of Duchy of Brittany and Duchy of the Breton Marche, would allow the player of Brittany more flexability as would be warrented.
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 09-11-2007 at 17:10.


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  15. #235
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    I'd have to go over the tags to see if a duchy level tag is free somewhere.

    Unused tags are:
    ELRI, EUPH, MADA, PETR, ALEP, MURO, FARO, USEZ, MINS, ABKH, POLV, BUKH, ATRI

    I think these are all duchy level, but I'd have to test these in-game to be certain (use a spawn event and see what level they end up as).

    HREE, GPOL, LPOL, TREB -- free king level tags.

    I'm thinking of using TREB in 1337 (if I ever fix the damn thing), but we can use one of the other three for a Breton kingdom.
    It would be nonrecreatable, like Navarra, though.

    As for Cornwall province -- for most of the CK timeframe the province was held by the English, so I think it should stay in ENGLand. I've considered adding it to WALEs, but then realistically so should the rest of the duchy.
    Last edited by jordarkelf; 09-11-2007 at 18:03.

  16. #236
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Jerusalem Optional:


    Since you added Baldwin III of Jerusalem, prehaps you can add his mother Queen Melisende (grandmother of Queen Sibylla) and his grandfather (her father), the founder of the hereditary line of kings of Jerusalem? I added them to my own scenario. You will need to be sure that both Baldwin III and his brother Almeric I are added as her sons to properly connect the dynasty to its founder, Baldwin II.

    The dynasty surname should be de Bourq, or de la Bourq, i have also seen it as du Bourg


    Code:
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 7027401855 }
    	name = "Melisende le Rein"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =702740175 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 7027401779 }
    	country = JERU
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Latin
    	birthdate = { year = 1105 month = january day = 1 }
    	deathdate = { year = 1161 month = september day = 9 }
    	dna = "87939187498296"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 8
    		intrigue = 7
    		stewardship = 7
    		health = 8
    		fertility = 8
    	}
    	traits = {
    		energetic = yes
    		just = yes
    		proud = yes
    		wise = yes
    		valorous = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 7027401779 }
    	name = "Baudouin II"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =702740175 }
    	country = JERU
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Latin
    	birthdate = { year = 1075 month = october day = 14 }
    	deathdate = { year = 1131 month = september day = 9 }
    	dna = "07250701023982"
    	attributes = {2
    		martial = 7
    		diplomacy = 6
    		intrigue = 4
    		stewardship = 6
    		health = 8
    		fertility = 6
    	}
    	traits = {
    		energetic = yes
    		just = yes
    		proud = yes
    		sceptical = yes
    		valorous = yes
    		wise = yes
    		brilliant_strategist = yes
    	}
    }
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 09-11-2007 at 17:57.


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  17. #237
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Isn't their dynasty more properly de Rethel?

    De Bourg is the surname of the much later counts of Rethel, a cadet branch of pre-Valois Burgundy. It already exists as dynasty #95, used in the 1337 scenario.


    //Edit: Ignore the above. He was indeed called de Bourcq, after a small county he held in the Ardennes called "Bourcq".

    1187 is getting more and more complete
    Last edited by jordarkelf; 09-11-2007 at 18:30.

  18. #238
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordarkelf
    Isn't their dynasty more properly de Rethel?

    De Bourg is the surname of the much later counts of Rethel, a cadet branch of pre-Valois Burgundy. It already exists as dynasty #95, used in the 1337 scenario.

    //Edit: characters implemented as "de Rethel". 1187 is getting more and more complete

    I think de Bourcq would be more correct, as wikipedia has him known as de Bourcq, du Bourg, and de la Bourcq Baldwin II in English Wikipedia, Balwin II in French Wikipedia.

    Undeniably they are cadet branches of de Renthel. I am happy with any, though. I personally like all of the names... though de la Bourcq best. lol.


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  19. #239
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    I can't figure out where Rethel is supposed to be on the CK map... frustrating. Could be a nice touch to add Baldvin's father, brother and heirs in the proper province.

    Should be either Hainaut or Reims if I read the map right.
    Last edited by jordarkelf; 09-11-2007 at 18:42.

  20. #240
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordarkelf
    I can't figure out where Rethel is supposed to be on the CK map... frustrating. Could be a nice touch to add Baldvin's father, brother and heirs in the proper province.

    Should be either Hainaut or Reims if I read the map right.
    I think it is closer to Reims, but will need to look again. I cant now, as I must be off to hospital! I still am researching for Breton folks to add to the 14th century, most info is in French, so traditional google is only picking up articals in English... and there is almost none.


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