jordarkelf said:You're saying they married around 1050, so the first three children of her should have no mother set. Did you mention this before and have I forgotten it, or did I misunderstand you?
Alix-Adèle -- the hyphenated name is there because she was referred to as both names, just like Mariam-Martha Bagratuni in Macedonia, and a few other characters.
Capet vs De France -- I prefer keeping Capet as it was the real dynastic name (as much as we can say they had one). "De France" is a style.
Thanks for the promo in your signature
jordarkelf said:Aha, but see "Edward II of England"? Same deal. In-game he is called "Edward Plantagenet", but "nobility needs no last names". If you would ask him his name, he would no doubt call himself "of England", since Plantagenet is the name later applied to the dynasty.
The same goes for Isabelle de France -- she was a member of the House (or dynasty) of Capet.
If the Capetians had ever lost the French throne the new dynasty would style itself "of France", and the Capetians would use a new style (if they had held any power). This happened in fact when the Valois line took over, which was a cadet branch of the Capetians which named itself after their holdings in Valois. And again when the Bourbon line took over, another cadet branch which began in Bourbon.
In CK you play the dynasty, not the country. And since the dynasty can easily lose its lands, the dynastic name -- or the closest thing to it -- is the only logical name.
I'm thus not convinced
C3. [2m.] Ct Philip of Flanders (1168-91), Cte de Vermandois, Regent of France, *ca 1143, +at Acre 1.7.1191; 1m: 1159 Cts Mabile de Vermandois et de Valois (+28.3.1183); 2m: VIII.1183 Matilda=Theresa of Portugal (*1157 +6.5.1218)
D1. [illegitimate] Thierry of Flanders; m.1203 N, "le Damsel de Chypre", dau.of Issakios Dukas Komnenos, Emperor in Cyprus
THIERRY de Flandre (-after 1207). Thierry was one of the leaders of the Flemish contingent in the Fourth Crusade. Villehardouin records that "Comte Philippe de Flandre's son Thierry" left with the fleet from Flanders and arrived at Marseille end-1202[366]. William of Tyre (Continuator) names "Bauduins chevalier d'Amienz qui estoit parent de l'empereor" when recording his departure on crusade and marriage at Marseille in 1203[367]. According to the Continuator of William of Tyre, when he arrived in Cyprus, Thierry requested Aimery I King of Cyprus to transfer the island to him, by right of his wife, but he was expelled and left for Armenia[368]. Villehardouin records that "Emperor Henri" placed "his nephew Thierry de Flandre" in charge of a company at Constantinople to fight against the Bulgarians in Jul 1207[369]. m (Marseille 1203) as her second husband, --- Komnene "la Damsel de Chypre", divorced wife of RAYMOND VI Comte de Toulouse, daughter of ISAAKIOS Dukas Komnenos ex-Emperor of Cyprus & his first wife --- of Armenia [Rupenid] ([1177/78]-after 1204). She is referred to as "fille de l'empereor de Chypre" by William of Tyre (Continuator) when he records her presence at Marseille where she met and married her husband en route to the Crusade[370].
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 118712591 }
name = "Thierry"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =428 }
father = { type = 10 id = 12591 }
country = FLAN
religion = catholic
culture = Frankish
birthdate = { year = 1170 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "57320111366003"
attributes = {
martial = 8
diplomacy = 3
intrigue = 8
stewardship = 3
health = 5
fertility = 7
}
traits = {
bastard = yes
reckless = yes
crusader = yes
tough_soldier = yes
}
}
9. GERARD d'Alsace dit de Flandre (-1206). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Provost at Bruges. Chancellor of Flanders. He was a member of the Regency Council which was established in [1202] during the absence of Baudouin IX Count of Flanders on Crusade[415].
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 118712592 }
name = "Gérard"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =428 }
father = { type = 10 id = 12590 }
country = FLAN
religion = catholic
culture = Frankish
birthdate = { year = 1147 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "57022005126005"
attributes = {
martial = 3
diplomacy = 10
intrigue = 7
stewardship = 4
health = 5
fertility = 4
}
traits = {
bastard = yes
wise = yes
scholarly_theologian = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100403 }
name = "William"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =752 }
father = { type = 10 id = 248 }
country = c108
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1020 month = january day = 1 }
deathdate = { year = 1054 month = august day = 28 }
dna = "87770213040602"
attributes = {
martial = 8
diplomacy = 7
intrigue = 7
stewardship = 7
health = 7
fertility = 7
}
traits = {
temperate = yes
intricate_webweaver = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100404 }
name = "Eleonore"
gender = female
dynasty = { type = 12 id =752 }
father = { type = 10 id = 1100403 }
country = c061
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1041 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "87030213000602"
attributes = {
martial = 4
diplomacy = 6
intrigue = 4
stewardship = 7
health = 7
fertility = 7
}
traits = {
proud = yes
bastard = yes
martial_cleric = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100405 }
name = "Richard"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =749 }
father = { type = 10 id = 170 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 1100404 }
country = c061
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1060 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "87060221030610"
attributes = {
martial = 4
diplomacy = 4
intrigue = 4
stewardship = 4
health = 7
fertility = 7
}
traits = {
coward = yes
court_education = yes
}
}
marrige = {
primary = { type = 10 id = 170 }
secondary = { type = 10 id = 1100404 }
startdate = { year = 1058 month = january day = 1 }
}
jordarkelf said:I like to have the links, if they exist.
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 12581 }
name = "Mathieu"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =715 }
[COLOR=Lime]father = { type = 10 id = 118712601 }[/COLOR]
country = UPLO
religion = catholic
culture = Frankish
birthdate = { year = 1119 month = january day = 1 }
deathdate = { year = 1176 month = december day = 4 }
dna = "25218498964680"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 6
intrigue = 5
stewardship = 4
health = 8
fertility = 6
}
traits = {
proud = yes
flamboyant_schemer = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 12590 }
name = "Thierry"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =428 }
[COLOR=Lime]father = { type = 10 id = 118712602 }[/COLOR]
country = UPLO
religion = catholic
culture = Frankish
birthdate = { year = 1100 month = january day = 1 }
deathdate = { year = 1168 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "91607175673183"
attributes = {
martial = 8
diplomacy = 4
intrigue = 7
stewardship = 4
health = 7
fertility = 4
}
traits = {
proven_accountant = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 118712601 }
name = "Simon"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =715 }
father = { type = 10 id = 118712602 }
country = UPLO
religion = catholic
culture = Frankish
birthdate = { year = 1080 month = january day = 1 }
deathdate = { year = 1139 month = april day = 19 }
dna = "25048401964603"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 6
intrigue = 5
stewardship = 4
health = 8
fertility = 6
}
traits = {
zealous = yes
scholarly_theologian = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 118712602 }
name = "Dietrich"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =715 }
country = UPLO
religion = catholic
culture = Frankish
birthdate = { year = 1055 month = january day = 1 }
deathdate = { year = 1115 month = april day = 23 }
dna = "83965356059917"
attributes = {
martial = 7
diplomacy = 5
intrigue = 5
stewardship = 7
health = 5
fertility = 5
}
traits = {
tough_soldier = yes
}
}
E3. Brien de Bretagne, was given Cornwall
BRIEN [Brient] de Bretagne (-maybe 14 Feb ----). Guillaume de Jumièges names "Brian fils d'Eudes comte de la petite Bretagne" recording that he defeated the sons of Harold II King of England[504]. Said to have commanded a band of Bretons, with his brother Alain, at the battle of Hastings 1066. Appointed Lieutenant in south-west England by King William I. He defeated the sons of King Harold II near the river Taw in Jun 1069[505]. Probably deposed after the rebellion of Ralph de Gaël in 1075. "Geoffrey count of the Bretons called Boterel" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Florent, Saumur with the consent of "all his brothers namely Brientius comes Angliæ terræ, and Alan Rufus his successor and another Alan who was called Niger, this third succeeded him in the kingdom" by charter dated to [1084][506]. He lived the remainder of his life as a semi-invalid in Brittany[507].
[2] Nach 1066:
Zum earl von Cornwall wurde wahrscheinlich 1066 Brian (ein junges Mitglied des Herzogs-Hauses der Bretagne) erhoben, der eine Truppe von Bretonen bei der Schlacht von Hastings geführt hatte. 1068 zog König Wilhelm der Eroberer durch Cornwall, 1069 mußte Brian einen Aufstand der Söhne des Harald Godwinsson im westlichen Landesteil niederschlagen. Doch beteiligte sich Brian 1075 an der Revolte des Ralph de Gael gegen König Wilhelm. Daraufhin wurde ihm sein earldom entzogen, und er verließ England.
Jinnai said:And probably won't because it's quite cumbersome, even more than Divine Shadow's mod.
B5. [illegitimate] Godfrey, lord of Carshalton, went on the First Crusade; m.before 1086 Beatrix de Mandeville
:GEOFFROY (-after 1100). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Murray[121] suggests that Geoffrey may have been born legitimate because (1) his descendants were known as "de Boulogne", (2) he married well, and (3) he was given the first name of his father's older brother. Murray further suggests that, if this is correct, he would have been Comte Eustache's son by Godgifu of England, whose marriage may have been annulled for consanguinity, which would have resulted in the bastardisation of their children. Geoffroy was mentioned in a writ of William I King of England dated [1066/71]. Lord of Carshalton. He held the manor of Coton, Cambridgeshire from his father in 1086[122]. He was in Palestine in 1100. m ([1076/1085]) BEATRIX de Mandeville, daughter of GEOFFREY de Mandeville & his first wife Adelais ---. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. Geoffroy & his wife had [three] children
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100415 }
name = "Godfried"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =308 }
father = { type = 10 id = 20142 }
country = C075
religion = catholic
culture = dutch
birthdate = { year = 1041 month = january day = 0 }
dna = "15012111013300"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 5
intrigue = 5
stewardship = 5
health = 5
fertility = 6
}
traits = {
bastard = yes
martial_education = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100385 }
name = "William"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =102 }
father = { type = 10 id = 41230 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 41231 }
country = C074
religion = catholic
culture = norman
birthdate = { year = 1044 month = january day = 0 }
dna = "60023970439510"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 6
intrigue = 7
stewardship = 6
health = 5
fertility = 7
}
traits = {
honest = yes
naive_wirepuller = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100386 }
name = "Reinel"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =102 }
father = { type = 10 id = 41230 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 41231 }
country = C074
religion = catholic
culture = norman
birthdate = { year = 1051 month = january day = 0 }
dna = "60023910429515"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 7
intrigue = 5
stewardship = 5
health = 5
fertility = 4
}
traits = {
ecclesiastical_education = yes
shy = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100387 }
name = "Adela"
gender = female
dynasty = { type = 12 id =102 }
father = { type = 10 id = 41230 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 41231 }
country = C074
religion = catholic
culture = norman
birthdate = { year = 1040 month = january day = 0 }
dna = "60020210429515"
attributes = {
martial = 3
diplomacy = 5
intrigue = 3
stewardship = 7
health = 5
fertility = 7
}
traits = {
generous = yes
scholarly_theologian = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100388 }
name = "Beatrice"
gender = female
dynasty = { type = 12 id =102 }
father = { type = 10 id = 41230 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 41231 }
country = C074
religion = catholic
culture = norman
birthdate = { year = 1047 month = january day = 0 }
dna = "00090206119506"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 5
intrigue = 5
stewardship = 5
health = 5
fertility = 7
}
traits = {
energetic = yes
suspicious = yes
harelip = yes
fortune_builder = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100378 }
name = "Ralph"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =540 }
father = { type = 10 id = 6820 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 6821 }
country = C096
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1044 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "15500404127915"
attributes = {
martial = 4
diplomacy = 6
intrigue = 6
stewardship = 4
health = 3
fertility = 5
}
traits = {
merciful = yes
honest = yes
clubfooted = yes
martial_cleric = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100379 }
name = "Robert"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =540 }
father = { type = 10 id = 6820 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 6821 }
country = C096
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1047 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01500406010317"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 4
intrigue = 8
stewardship = 4
health = 6
fertility = 7
}
traits = {
proud = yes
reckless = yes
flamboyant_schemer = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1100380 }
name = "Amburga"
gender = female
dynasty = { type = 12 id =540 }
father = { type = 10 id = 6820 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 6821 }
country = C096
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1051 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "15500404017901"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 5
intrigue = 6
stewardship = 5
health = 5
fertility = 7
}
traits = {
court_education = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 190111152 }
name = "Rainulf"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
father = { type = 10 id = 1150 }
country = c997
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1034 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "08041803043916"
attributes = {
martial = 7
diplomacy = 4
intrigue = 6
stewardship = 5
health = 5
fertility = 4
}
traits = {
chaste = yes
knowledged_tactician = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 190111153 }
name = "Richard"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
father = { type = 10 id = 190111152 }
country = c997
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1054 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "08040205040209"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 4
intrigue = 6
stewardship = 5
health = 5
fertility = 8
}
traits = {
martial_education = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 190111154 }
name = "Robert"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
father = { type = 10 id = 190111152 }
country = c997
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1056 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "08000513040211"
attributes = {
martial = 3
diplomacy = 3
intrigue = 7
stewardship = 6
health = 5
fertility = 6
}
traits = {
ecclesiastical_education = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 190111155 }
name = "Roberto"
gender = c997
dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
father = { type = 10 id = 1150 }
country = c997
religion = catholic
culture = italian
birthdate = { year = 1040 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01000516020205"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 4
intrigue = 7
stewardship = 4
health = 5
fertility = 6
}
traits = {
arbitrary = yes
martial_cleric = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 1129 }
name = "Gaitelgrima"
gender = female
dynasty = { type = 12 id = 100336 }
father = { type = 10 id = 1116 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 1117 }
[COLOR=Lime]country = c997[/COLOR]
religion = catholic
culture = italian
birthdate = { year = 1032 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "77135689384202"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 5
intrigue = 5
stewardship = 6
health = 4
fertility = 2
}
traits = {
trusting = yes
naive_wirepuller = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 190111156 }
name = "Guglielmo"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
father = { type = 10 id = 190111155 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 1129 }
country = c997
religion = catholic
culture = italian
birthdate = { year = 1052 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01000512050201"
attributes = {
martial = 7
diplomacy = 4
intrigue = 4
stewardship = 4
health = 4
fertility = 4
}
traits = {
martial_education = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 190111157 }
name = "Enrico"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
father = { type = 10 id = 190111155 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 1129 }
country = c997
religion = catholic
culture = italian
birthdate = { year = 1054 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01090515020219"
attributes = {
martial = 3
diplomacy = 5
intrigue = 5
stewardship = 7
health = 6
fertility = 6
}
traits = {
court_education = yes
}
}
marrige = {
primary = { type = 10 id = 190111155 }
secondary = { type = 10 id = 1129 }
startdate = { year = 1052 month = january day = 1 }
}
dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 1534100098 }
name = "de Conversano"
province = { }
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 19111153 }
name = "Emma"
gender = female
dynasty = { type = 12 id =678 }
father = { type = 10 id = 1120 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 10008 }
country = APUL
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1019 month = january day = 1 }
deathdate = { year = 1060 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01025338020001"
attributes = {
martial = 4
diplomacy = 6
intrigue = 6
stewardship = 5
health = 4
fertility = 4
}
traits = {
intricate_webweaver = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 19111154 }
name = "Odo"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
country = APUL
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1000 month = january day = 1 }
deathdate = { year = 1055 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01040238020002"
attributes = {
martial = 4
diplomacy = 6
intrigue = 6
stewardship = 5
health = 4
fertility = 4
}
traits = {
intricate_webweaver = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
name = "Godfrey"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
father = { type = 10 id = 19111154 }
mother = { type = 10 id = 19111153 }
country = c345
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
score = { gold = 25 prestige = 100 piety = 100 }
birthdate = { year = 1036 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01000238020015"
attributes = {
martial = 6
diplomacy = 3
intrigue = 6
stewardship = 4
health = 5
fertility = 8
}
traits = {
knowledged_tactician = yes }
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 19111158 }
name = "William"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
father = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
country = c345
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1055 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01000238130001"
attributes = {
martial = 6
diplomacy = 5
intrigue = 3
stewardship = 5
health = 6
fertility = 8
}
traits = {
cruel = yes
martial_education = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 19111159 }
name = "Tancred"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
father = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
country = c345
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1056 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01040238130000"
attributes = {
martial = 4
diplomacy = 4
intrigue = 4
stewardship = 9
health = 6
fertility = 8
}
traits = {
forgiving = yes
court_education = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 19111160 }
name = "Altrude"
gender = female
dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
father = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
country = c345
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1057 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01040238130008"
attributes = {
martial = 4
diplomacy = 4
intrigue = 8
stewardship = 4
health = 6
fertility = 8
}
traits = {
just = yes
indulgent = yes
naive_wirepuller = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 19111161 }
name = "Alexander"
gender = male
dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
father = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
country = c345
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1058 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01060238010010"
attributes = {
martial = 3
diplomacy = 4
intrigue = 7
stewardship = 4
health = 6
fertility = 8
}
traits = {
ecclesiastical_education = yes
}
}
character = {
id = { type = 10 id = 19111162 }
name = "Sybilla"
gender = female
dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
father = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
country = c345
religion = catholic
culture = Norman
birthdate = { year = 1059 month = january day = 1 }
dna = "01060838010210"
attributes = {
martial = 5
diplomacy = 7
intrigue = 4
stewardship = 4
health = 6
fertility = 8
}
traits = {
ecclesiastical_education = yes
}
}