Help Contribute with new TechTeams - second step

Cardus · Dec 20, 2009

South Korea TTs

South Korea TTs

Hi guys. I have tried to resume the discussions on the South Korea TTs as follow. Please let me know your amendments

Code:

13500;Seoul National Univ;t13500;4;1946;1970;mathematics;electronics;chemistry;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13501;Woo Jangchun;t13503;5;1930;1959;chemistry;mechanics;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13502;Korean Air Force;;4;1936;1970;aeronautics;electronics;technical_efficiency;rocketry;artillery;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13503;Samsung;t13505;6;1938;1970;electronics;management;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13504;Jinhae Navy Yard;t13506;5;1930;1970;naval_engineering;aeronautics;electronics;naval_artillery;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13505;Lucky;t13507;5;1933;1970;mechanics;chemistry;electronics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13506;Ji Cheongcheon;t13508;5;1930;1970;infantry_focus;small_unit_tactics;decentralized_execution;individual_courage;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13507;Lee Jongchan;t13509;4;1937;1970;combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;centralized_execution;technical_efficiency;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13508;Choi Yongdeok;;4;1930;1965;aircraft_testing;bomber_tactics;decentralized_execution;fighter_tactics;combined_arms_focus;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13509;Son Wonil;t13511;4;1930;1970;seamanship;small_taskforce_tactics;naval_training;centralized_execution;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13510;Lee Chunho;tk-leechunho;5;1953;1970;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13511;Choi Gyunam;tk-choikyunam;5;1930;1970;nuclear_physics;chemistry;nuclear_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13512;Korea Atomic Research Institute;;4;1959;1970;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
13513;Yonsei University;;3;1930;1946;chemistry;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
13514;Choi Kyunam;;3;1930;1959;mathematics;electronics;chemistry;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

unmerged(87183) · Dec 20, 2009

There is a team called Lucky?

:rofl:

Simon1397 · Dec 20, 2009

Cardus said:
thank you very much for your really good report!!!

Thank you and everyone's whose working on these new TT

I'll continue the handsoff game tomorrow and post the remaining 43-48 updates and any further observations.

unmerged(87183) · Dec 20, 2009

You guys can take Ivan Konev away from Communist Ukraine...

o

I was trying to find another commander so Ukraine can have two land commanders like Independant Ukraine, and it seems Konev is not Ukrainian...

I'd like to apologise for this poor "research" on my part.

Anyways, I have two new TT's...

Communist Ukraine:

Name: Semyon Timoshenko
Skill: 4
Specialties:Training, Centralized Execution, Large Unit Tactics and Combined Arms Focus
Years Active: 1930-1970
Notes: More influential then Konev... Took over command of Soviet Troops from Voroshilov during the Winter War and brought it to a successful, if phyrric, conclusion. Senior commander at the start of Barbarossa, he was largely responsible for what modernization and mechanization had happened up to that time. Responsible for keeping the Armies around Moscow battered, but intact, and then for stabilizing the Ukrainian Front. However, the Battle of Kursk made Stalin decide Zhukov was a better commander then Timoshenko (which he was), and he was "bumped upwards" so to speak. I have given him a skill 4 because of this.

Name: Andrei Yeryomenko
Skill: 5
Specialties: Individual Courage, Centralized Execution, Large Unit Tactics and Infantry Focus
Years Active: 1930-1970
Notes: Joined the Imperial Russian Army in 1913, and fought throughout WWI, Was with Budyonny during the Civil War. Led the Invasion of Poland. During Barbarossa Took over command of the forces of the South West front, and halted the Germans at Smolensk. During this Battle that he was first Wounded. Took over Bryanks Front, but had little success due to Political orders. Seriously wounded during the Battle of Moscow, and during the Winter Offensive was wounded a third time. Led the overall defense of Stalingrad, and halted von Mansteins push to break the Seige. Later commanded the Kalinin Front, launching a successful offensive there, launched offensives in the Crimean Front, commanded the Baltic Front and later "liberated" much of Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Curiously, despite being one of the most successful front commanders he was not promoted to Marshal until 1955, after Stalins death. Due to being wounded in combat three times (an ashtonishing number for a general) I have given him Individual Courage.

Admiral Fischer · Dec 20, 2009

kunadam said:
This is something I had to comment. Doctrines should not be based on what a country had actually achieved, but what they aimed at.
It becomes rather monotonous that each partisan is represented as small unit, individual courage, decentralized. It should not be the case.

For example, Hungary aimed at mobile warfare, and thus have combined arms. However it never had the means of actually doing much combined arms fight, but the doctrines were there.
Prewar (pre 39 or so) individual courage was a real doctrinal aim, as they wanted to make up in morale that was lacking in equipment.
In cold war era centralized execution meant that officers were trained to obey orders and never think.

Maj. von Mauser said:
The logic behind this isn't "Let's give Korea Carrier Tactics and Nuclear Physics so It will be Equal to Austria and Iceland", but "Let's give Korea Carrier Tactics because their navy was devoted towards this path, and because they designed many carriers. We will give them Nuclear Physics because (insert some Korean name here) did alot of work on this subject and developed several interesting theories about the issue".

We are not giving TT's skills and traits to make them equal, we give them skills and traits because A) They have proof to show they deserve it, and B) It does not throw the Game balance out of whack.

I understood, but Primary issue in here is unhistorical game mechanics which gives mighty Base Strike Naval doctrine for KOR, and make needs for carrier doctrine team. This should be solved by fixing game mechanics, not by giving "large_taskforce_tactics"/"carrier_tactics" teams to every revolters.

Historically DPRK nor ROK Navy never developed any significant Carrier doctrines to this day, and it's primary objective until 1990's was defend coastal line and fishery from hatred aggressors and infiltrate beyond demarcation line for 'intelligence operation'. From late 1980's ROK Navy started envisioning and building Blue-water navy.

kunadam said:
Then set their death date before independence. Even countries not existing in the 1936-45 period should have teams for that period.

In case of early independence of Korea, Ji Cheongcheon could deal with land doctrines. By the way, i think four Land doctrine teams for Korea is too much...

Cardus said:

South Korea TTs

Hi guys. I have tried to resume the discussions on the South Korea TTs as follow. Please let me know your amendments

Code:

13500;Seoul National Univ;t13500;4;1946;1970;mathematics;electronics;chemistry;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13501;Woo Jangchun;t13503;5;1930;1959;chemistry;mechanics;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13502;Korean Air Force;;4;1936;1970;aeronautics;electronics;technical_efficiency;rocketry;artillery;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13503;Samsung;t13505;6;1938;1970;electronics;management;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13504;Jinhae Navy Yard;t13506;5;1930;1970;naval_engineering;aeronautics;electronics;naval_artillery;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13505;Lucky;t13507;5;1933;1970;mechanics;chemistry;electronics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13506;Ji Cheongcheon;t13508;5;1930;1970;infantry_focus;small_unit_tactics;decentralized_execution;individual_courage;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13507;Lee Jongchan;t13509;4;1937;1970;combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;centralized_execution;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13508;Choi Yongdeok;;4;1930;1965;aircraft_testing;bomber_tactics;decentralized_execution;fighter_tactics;combined_arms_focus;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13509;Son Wonil;t13511;4;1930;1970;seamanship;small_taskforce_tactics;naval_training;centralized_execution;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13510;Lee Chunho;tk-leechunho;5;1953;1970;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13511;Choi Gyunam;tk-choikyunam;5;1930;1970;nuclear_physics;chemistry;nuclear_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13512;Korea Atomic Research Institute;;4;1959;1970;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
13513;Yonsei University;;3;1930;1946;chemistry;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
13514;Choi Kyunam;;3;1930;1959;mathematics;electronics;chemistry;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Here is my proposal.

Code:

13500;Seoul National Univ;t13500;4;1946;1970;mathematics;electronics;chemistry;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13501;Woo Jangchun;t13503;5;1930;1959;chemistry;mechanics;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13502;Korean Air Force;;4;1936;1970;aeronautics;electronics;technical_efficiency;rocketry;artillery;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13503;Samsung;t13505;6;1938;1970;electronics;management;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13504;Jinhae Navy Yard;t13506;4;1930;1970;naval_engineering;electronics;naval_artillery;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13505;Lucky;t13507;5;1933;1970;mechanics;chemistry;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13506;Ji Cheongcheon;t13508;5;1930;1946;infantry_focus;small_unit_tactics;decentralized_execution;individual_courage;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13507;Lee Jongchan;t13509;5;1937;1970;combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;centralized_execution;technical_efficiency;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13508;Choi Yongdeok;;4;1930;1965;aircraft_testing;bomber_tactics;decentralized_execution;fighter_tactics;combined_arms_focus;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13509;Son Wonil;t13511;4;1930;1970;seamanship;small_taskforce_tactics;naval_training;centralized_execution;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13510;Lee Chunho;tk-leechunho;5;1953;1970;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13511;Choi Gyunam;tk-choikyunam;5;1930;1970;nuclear_physics;chemistry;nuclear_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13512;Korea Atomic Research Institute;;4;1959;1970;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13513;Yonsei University;;3;1930;1946;chemistry;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13514;Bupyeong Arsenal;tk-iaf;5;1934;2000;general_equipment;mechanics;artillery;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

Maj. von Mauser said:
There is a team called Lucky?:rofl:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Group said:
LG Group founder Koo In-Hwoi established Lak-Hui Chemical Industrial Corp. in 1947.[3] In 1952, Lak-Hui (pronounced "Lucky", currently LG Chem) became the first Korean company to enter the plastics industry. As the company expanded its plastics business, it established GoldStar Co., Ltd., (currently LG Electronics Inc.) in 1958.

Actually it is historical.

It could be renamed to 'Lak-hui' anyway.

kunadam · Dec 20, 2009

Simon1397 said:
Observations: the overall tech level appears to be a little higher as the AI does take advantage of strong new TT to slightly speed up research, examples would be Reggiane being good for AFV's and aircraft but overall (taking into account that these new TT will not fit in with the original vanilla HoI2 but with a different AoD developement)

I do think they they would fit into vanilla HoI2. The research speed upgrades are minuscule, enough to warrant using the new team, but not to do something very strange. Also please note that we - at least me - do no know anything about AoD new features (except the ones presented in the DevDiaries)

Maj. von Mauser said:
No offense, but I think changes should also always be put in public. This way we can best discuss and tweak them.

Corvus made all his suggestion public in the previous thread. They were just not coded because of lack of time.

Maj. von Mauser said:
I thought I suggested somewehre Schrödinger should be a Skill 8 but I think that was voted down...

And not because he was not a good scientist, but with Skill 8 he would be sitting in his office thinking about troop placement, new ways of sending fighters to installation strikes and during the coffee break about a new turbojet engine...

kunadam · Dec 20, 2009

Admiral Fischer said:
Here is my proposal.

This setup increases KOR research speed across the board except for Armour and Naval techs.

Corean Airforce should not have rocketry and artillery (few country have rocektry team)
Jinhae Naval Yard was downgraded to skill 4. If you think that KOR naval TTs were overrated before, then it is fine.
Choi Gyunam skill should be 4.

The land teams are just too good. Please remove 1 or preferably 2 specialty from them. That should also be true for the other doctrine teams.

There is no car/tank research team at the moment. All tank research are done by the botanist (! I know biologist are good, maybe not that good) and the University.
For example the early KIA (Kyungsung Industrial) from 1944 could be one (even thought car manufacture started in the '60s). Or bring back that procurement team.

There should be a math team for the pre 1946 era.

Bupyeong Arsenalm should be skill 4.
*******************************************
Now except for doctrine teams in all other areas there are now fewer or the same number of TTs as in the original setup.
I suggest having an additional Naval yard included. Same skill but without naval artillery (would be OK for a secondary naval TT).

gpg0109 · Dec 20, 2009

i think this thing wil be final.

Code:

13500;Choi Gyunam;;3;1930;1970;nuclear_physics;chemistry;nuclear_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13501;Choi Yongdeok;;4;1930;1965;aircraft_testing;bomber_tactics;decentralized_execution;fighter_tactics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13502;Inchon Arms Factory;;4;1934;2000;general_equipment;mechanics;artillery;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13503;Ji Cheongcheon;;5;1930;1946;infantry_focus;small_unit_tactics;decentralized_execution;individual_courage;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13504;Jinhae Navy Yard;;4;1930;1970;naval_engineering;electronics;naval_artillery;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13505;Korea Atomic Research Institute;;4;1959;1970;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13506;Korean Air;;4;1936;1970;aeronautics;electronics;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13507;Lee Chunho;;5;1947;1970;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13508;Lee Jongchan;;5;1937;1970;combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;centralized_execution;technical_efficiency;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13509;Lucky;;5;1933;1970;mechanics;chemistry;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13510;Samsung;;6;1938;1970;electronics;management;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13511;Seoul National Univ;;4;1925;1970;mathematics;electronics;chemistry;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13512;Son Wonil;;4;1930;1970;seamanship;small_taskforce_tactics;naval_training;centralized_execution;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13513;Woo Jangchun;;5;1930;1959;chemistry;mechanics;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
13514;Kyungsung Precision Industry;;4;1944;1970;mechanics;electronics;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

note : IIRC, 'Korean Air' was assembled Japan Airforce's fighter since later 1939.
at first, it's name was 'Joseon Aero-industrial Inc.'(조선항공공업주식회사 朝鮮航空工業株式會社) at 1936 with eight DC-3 plane, changed name to 'Korean Airline' was after 1945.

Admiral Fischer · Dec 20, 2009

gpg0109 said:

Code:

13503;Ji Cheongcheon;;[COLOR="Yellow"]4[/COLOR];1930;1946;infantry_focus;small_unit_tactics;decentralized_execution;individual_courage;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;

13508;Lee Jongchan;;5;1937;1970;combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;centralized_execution;[COLOR="Red"]technical_efficiency[/COLOR];training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;

Ji Cheongcheon's skill at 4 and Lee Jongchan without "technical_efficiency" speciality is more balanced option IMO.

gpg0109 said:
Code:

13506;Korean Air;;4;1936;1970;aeronautics;electronics;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

note : IIRC, 'Korean Air' was assembled Japan Airforce's fighter since later 1939.
at first, it's name was 'Joseon Aero-industrial Inc.'(조선항공공업주식회사 朝鮮航空工業株式會社) at 1936 with eight DC-3 plane, changed name to 'Korean Airline' was after 1945.

'Korean National Airline' was not successor of 'Joseon Aero-industrial Inc.' and after war Joseon Aero-industrial and it's factory were seized by American Military Administration. KNA never had its own aircraft factory.

I have no objection to other techteams in proposal or adding more naval techteams. note 'Incheon Arms Factory' and 'Bupyeong Arsenal' is referencing same arms manufacture.

EDIT:It seems not same. :wacko:

gpg0109 · Dec 20, 2009

Admiral Fischer said:
Ji Cheongcheon's skill at 4 and Lee Jongchan without "technical_efficiency" speciality is more balanced option IMO.

i agree. but please left Ji. he is symbol of Korean's pride at anti-Japanese movement. (like Kim Gu.)

Admiral Fischer said:
'Korean National Airline' was not successor of 'Joseon Aero-industrial Inc.' and after war Joseon Aero-industrial and it's factory were seized by American Military Administration. KNA never had its own aircraft factory.

not directly, but successor is right. Shin Yonguk who established Joseon Aero was established Korean Air, too.
From Shin's daughter Shin Mibong's blog( http://blog.naver.com/mbmin ), he was finished Okuri Pilot School (which An Changnam who is first pilot of Korea educated) at 1923. and first man who has international pilot license in all of E.Asia. he was established Joseon Air with aid from Japan Army, and received his factory from Military Administration(but it was useless, so KNA has no factory.) then started first non-public airline, KNA. but it was broke that because many accident and hijack of N.Korea. so it was became KAL with public money and Hanjin's aid.
if it seems okay, How about insert Shin Yonguk instead KNA?

Admiral Fischer said:
I have no objection to other techteams in proposal or adding more naval techteams. note 'Incheon Arms Factory' and 'Bupyeong Arsenal' is referencing same arms manufacture.
EDIT:It seems not same. :wacko:

Bupyeong is one of sub-province of Incheon city. and it's same

and what do you think about add Incheon navy yard as 3;naval_eng;electronic;tech_eff?

kunadam · Dec 20, 2009

gpg0109 said:
Bupyeong is one of sub-province of Incheon city. and it's same
and what do you think about add Incheon navy yard as 3;naval_eng;electronic;tech_eff?

It can be skill 4. It won't make KOR more powerful, and would be of help if the player would like to do parallel research.

Please come up with some tank research team. Names and links would be welcome (I can do skill and specialties)

gpg0109 · Dec 20, 2009

kunadam said:
It can be skill 4. It won't make KOR more powerful, and would be of help if the player would like to do parallel research.

Sounds great.

kunadam said:
Please come up with some tank research team. Names and links would be welcome (I can do skill and specialties)

we have 3 candidature for tank TT.

1st is Kusumoto Motor, established by Kusumoto who was CEO of Osaka Ford. it is first motor campany in Korea, and lived to 1939.

2nd is Kyeongnam Motor, Firts motor company by Korean, but they were broke in 1939 by Kusumoto's backdoor with Governor-General of Korea.

3rd is Isuzu, Nissan or Toyota, at later 1936, they were expand a little of their factory at Seoul for China-Japan war. they were assembled truck and armored cars.

i think Nissan is fit.

Admiral Fischer · Dec 20, 2009

gpg0109 said:
i agree. but please left Ji. he is symbol of Korean's pride at anti-Japanese movement. (like Kim Gu.)

Well, now his deathdate is set to 1946 so i'm okay with skill 5.

gpg0109 said:
not directly, but successor is right. Shin Yonguk who established Joseon Aero was established Korean Air, too.
From Shin's daughter Shin Mibong's blog( http://blog.naver.com/mbmin ), he was finished Okuri Pilot School (which An Changnam who is first pilot of Korea educated) at 1923. and first man who has international pilot license in all of E.Asia. he was established Joseon Air with aid from Japan Army, and received his factory from Military Administration(but it was useless, so KNA has no factory.) then started first non-public airline, KNA. but it was broke that because many accident and hijack of N.Korea. so it was became KAL with public money and Hanjin's aid.
if it seems okay, How about insert Shin Yonguk instead KNA?

I'll prefer generic air force team rather than Airlines or its CEO.

gpg0109 said:
Bupyeong is one of sub-province of Incheon city. and it's same

Problem is there were two separated Arsenals in Incheon - first in Bupyeong, and second in Gojan. Former one was main ammunition manufacture for ROK Army until Korean war broke out, and latter one was gunpowder manufacture, and became possession of 'Korea Gunpowder Corporation' in later - nowdays Hanhwa.

gpg0109 said:
and what do you think about add Incheon navy yard as 3;naval_eng;electronic;tech_eff?

No idea.

gpg0109 said:
we have 3 candidature for tank TT.

1st is Kusumoto Motor, established by Kusumoto who was CEO of Osaka Ford. it is first motor campany in Korea, and lived to 1939.

2nd is Kyeongnam Motor, Firts motor company by Korean, but they were broke in 1939 by Kusumoto's backdoor with Governor-General of Korea.

3rd is Isuzu, Nissan or Toyota, at later 1936, they were expand a little of their factory at Seoul for China-Japan war. they were assembled truck and armored cars.

i think Nissan is fit.

Seriously, Nissan in ROK Army tank development doesn't make any sense. It would better to have Laboratory of Defence Science Research for this role, i suggest "mechanics", "management", "artillery", "technical_efficiency", and "general_equipment" for speciality. This laboratory is predecessor of "Laboratory of Army Research and Development Command".

Cardus · Dec 20, 2009

Second trial Korean TTs.

Please find below a second proposal and let me know your amendments

Code:

13500;Choi Gyunam;;3;1930;1970;nuclear_physics;chemistry;nuclear_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13501;Choi Yongdeok;;4;1930;1965;aircraft_testing;bomber_tactics;decentralized_execution;fighter_tactics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13502;Inchon Arms Factory;;4;1934;2000;general_equipment;mechanics;artillery;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13503;Ji Cheongcheon;;5;1930;1946;infantry_focus;small_unit_tactics;decentralized_execution;individual_courage;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13504;Jinhae Navy Yard;;4;1930;1970;naval_engineering;electronics;naval_artillery;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13505;Korea Atomic Research Institute;;4;1959;1970;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13506;Korean Air Force;;4;1936;1970;aeronautics;electronics;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13507;Lee Chunho;;5;1947;1970;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13508;Lee Jongchan;;5;1937;1970;combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;centralized_execution;technical_efficiency;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13509;Lucky;;5;1933;1970;mechanics;chemistry;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13510;Samsung;;6;1938;1970;electronics;management;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13511;Seoul National Univ;;4;1925;1970;mathematics;electronics;chemistry;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13512;Son Wonil;;4;1930;1970;seamanship;small_taskforce_tactics;naval_training;centralized_execution;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13513;Woo Jangchun;;5;1930;1959;chemistry;mechanics;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13514;Kyungsung Precision Industry;;4;1944;1970;mechanics;electronics;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13515;Incheon Naval Yard;;4;1944;1970;naval_engineering;electronics;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13516;Kyeongnam Motor;;4;1930;1939;mechanics;artillery;management;technical_efficiency;general_equipment;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13517;Laboratory of Defence Science Research;;5;1939;1970;mechanics;artillery;management;technical_efficiency;general_equipment;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

kunadam · Dec 20, 2009

Nissan won't fit, its Japanese.
Could you give link to other car manufactures? (could be in Korean, google translate will help)

My proposal so far:

Code:

KOR;Name;Pic Name;Skill;Start Year;End Year;Speciality1;Speciality2;Speciality3;Speciality4;Speciality5;Speciality6;Speciality7;Speciality8;Speciality9;Speciality10;Speciality11;Speciality12;Speciality13;Speciality14;Speciality15;Speciality16;Speciality17;Speciality18;Speciality19;Speciality20;Speciality21;Speciality22;Speciality23;Speciality24;Speciality25;Speciality26;Speciality27;Speciality28;Speciality29;Speciality30;Speciality31;Speciality32;x
13500;Seoul National Univ;t13500;4;1946;1970;mathematics;electronics;chemistry;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13501;Woo Jangchun;t13503;5;1930;1959;chemistry;mechanics;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13502;Korean Air Force;;4;1936;1970;aeronautics;electronics;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13503;Samsung;t13505;6;1938;1970;electronics;management;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13504;Jinhae Navy Yard;t13506;4;1930;1970;naval_engineering;electronics;naval_artillery;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13505;Lucky;t13507;5;1933;1970;mechanics;chemistry;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13506;Ji Cheongcheon;t13508;5;1930;1946;infantry_focus;small_unit_tactics;decentralized_execution;individual_courage;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13507;Lee Jongchan;t13509;5;1937;1970;combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;centralized_execution;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13508;Choi Yongdeok;;4;1930;1965;aircraft_testing;bomber_tactics;decentralized_execution;fighter_tactics;combined_arms_focus;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13509;Son Wonil;t13511;4;1930;1970;seamanship;small_taskforce_tactics;naval_training;centralized_execution;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13510;Lee Chunho;tk-leechunho;5;1953;1970;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13511;Choi Gyunam;tk-choikyunam;4;1930;1970;nuclear_physics;chemistry;nuclear_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13512;Korea Atomic Research Institute;;4;1959;1970;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13513;Yonsei University;;3;1930;1946;chemistry;management;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13514;Bupyeong Arsenal;tk-iaf;4;1934;2000;artillery;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13515;Inchon Arms Factory;;4;1934;2000;general_equipment;chemistry;artillery;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;
13516;Wonsan Navy Yard;t13506;4;1930;1970;naval_engineering;electronics;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13517;Laboratory of Defence Science Research;;4;1930;1970;artillery;mechanics;technical_efficiency;chemistry;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

gpg0109 · Dec 20, 2009

Admiral Fischer said:
Well, now his deathdate is set to 1946 so i'm okay with skill 5.

okay.

Admiral Fischer said:
I'll prefer generic air force team rather than Airlines or its CEO.

then, there is any alternate TT? please..

Admiral Fischer said:
Problem is there were two separated Arsenals in Incheon - first in Bupyeong, and second in Gojan. Former one was main ammunition manufacture for ROK Army until Korean war broke out, and latter one was gunpowder manufacture, and became possession of 'Korea Gunpowder Corporation' in later - nowdays Hanhwa.

Incheon (Gojan is sub-sub-province of Incheon) Gunpowder Manufature is not an arsenal, it's owner was 'Korean Oil Inc.' (조선유지주식회사 朝鮮油脂株式會社).
that will be no problem.

Admiral Fischer said:
Seriously, Nissan in ROK Army tank development doesn't make any sense. It would better to have Laboratory of Defence Science Research for this role, i suggest "mechanics", "management", "artillery", "technical_efficiency", and "general_equipment" for speciality. This laboratory is predecessor of "Laboratory of Army Research and Development Command".

but it was open at 1950. 6. 15, only ten day left before Korean War. we have to find something before Korean War, after Independence.

kunadam said:
Nissan won't fit, its Japanese.
Could you give link to other car manufactures? (could be in Korean, google translate will help)

i can find about very few about 'Korea Vehicle Body Industrial Association(조선자동차차체공업조합 朝鮮自動車車體工業組合)'. but there's only start year i can find out(1940), and what they do is only 'fail because of Japan's govern policy'.

more one is Buyeong Bus. established in 1928, but fee is to expensive(two times of tram) so M&Aed to Kyeongseong Electric(irony, same company of Korean Electric what i inserted before!)

final and most powerful(!) candidature is Seoul Electric, what i rememberd broke down at 1938, was gave to japanese but still alive untill 1950, but name was changed to Kyeongseong Electric. for the populance, it's name is Kyeongjeon Bus(initial of Kyeongseong Electric.) most of all, they could make their own bus.

kunadam said:

Code:

13513;Yonsei University;;3;1930;1946;chemistry;management;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13514;Bupyeong Arsenal;tk-iaf;4;1934;2000;artillery;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
13515;Inchon Arms Factory;;4;1934;2000;general_equipment;chemistry;artillery;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x;

Yonsei would be no good because Korea has Woo jangchun for agriculture already, and as I say in above, IAF is same thing of Bupyeong Arsenal.

Cardus · Dec 20, 2009

South Korea TTs

Third proposal

Please find below my 3rd proposal (it should be a synthesis of the ongoing discussions) for South Korea TTs and let me know your thoughts/amendments

Code:

13500;Bupyeong Arsenal;tk-iaf;4;1934;1970;artillery;training;;;
13501;Choi Gyunam;tk-choikyunam;4;1930;1970;nuclear_physics;chemistry;nuclear_engineering;;
13502;Choi Yongdeok;;4;1930;1965;aircraft_testing;bomber_tactics;decentralized_execution;fighter_tactics;combined_arms_focus
13503;Inchon Arms Factory;;4;1934;1970;general_equipment;chemistry;artillery;;
13504;Ji Cheongcheon;t13508;5;1930;1946;infantry_focus;small_unit_tactics;decentralized_execution;individual_courage;training
13505;Jinhae Navy Yard;t13506;4;1930;1970;naval_engineering;electronics;naval_artillery;technical_efficiency;
13506;Korea Atomic Research Institute;;4;1959;1970;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics;;
13507;Korean Air Force;;4;1936;1970;aeronautics;electronics;technical_efficiency;;
13508;Kyeongjeon Bus;;3;1939;1950;mechanics;artillery;management;technical_efficiency;general_equipment
13509;Kyeongnam Motor;;3;1930;1939;mechanics;artillery;management;technical_efficiency;general_equipment
13510;Kyungsung Precision Industry;;4;1944;1970;mechanics;electronics;technical_efficiency;;
13511;Laboratory of Defence Science Research;;4;1950;1970;artillery;mechanics;technical_efficiency;chemistry;general_equipment
13512;Lee Chunho;tk-leechunho;5;1953;1970;mathematics;;;;
13513;Lee Jongchan;t13509;5;1937;1970;combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;centralized_execution;training;
13514;Lucky;t13507;5;1933;1970;mechanics;chemistry;industrial_engineering;;
13515;Samsung;t13505;6;1938;1970;electronics;management;industrial_engineering;;
13516;Seoul National Univ;t13500;4;1946;1970;mathematics;electronics;chemistry;mechanics
13517;Son Wonil;t13511;4;1930;1970;seamanship;small_taskforce_tactics;naval_training;centralized_execution
13518;Wonsan Navy Yard;t13506;4;1930;1970;naval_engineering;electronics;technical_efficiency;
13519;Woo Jangchun;t13503;5;1930;1959;chemistry;mechanics;management;

Admiral Fischer · Dec 20, 2009

kunadam said:

Since Bupyeong Arsenal was main ROK ammunition producer i think it should have "general_equipment" speciality, not "artillery".

kunadam said:

Wonsan is in North Korea.

kunadam said:

This interview confirms that the 'Science Laboratory of the Ministry of Defence' (i mistranslated before) was not only involved in weapon developments but also involved in military logistics research so i gave it "management" and "general_equipment" speciality.

gpg0109 said:
then, there is any alternate TT? please..

Why, generic airforce team that already suggested in before...

gpg0109 said:
Incheon (Gojan is sub-sub-province of Incheon) Gunpowder Manufature is not an arsenal, it's owner was 'Korean Oil Inc.' (조선유지주식회사 朝鮮油脂株式會社).
that will be no problem.

Check this article.

gpg0109 said:
but it was open at 1950. 6. 15, only ten day left before Korean War. we have to find something before Korean War, after Independence.

Actually the laboratory was research division of the Weapon administration office, even before it's reorganisation into 'laboratory'.

unmerged(87183) · Dec 20, 2009

Lucky should be changed to Lak-Hui Chemical Industrial Corp. in my opinion.
Seoul National Univ should be come Seoul National Iniversity.

Cardus · Dec 20, 2009

All,

Please find below the part of the report i'm not confortable with

Simon1397 said:
I've downloaded the beta TT pack and tried it out on a vanilla installation of HoI2 running a 'handsoff' game .....

1/1/1936
ITA using Terni to research Rear Area Supply Dumps

1/1/38
ITA using Ugo Tiberio to research Impr. Computing Machine

1/1/39
USA using M.I.T. to research Faculty of Nuclear Research

1/1/1942
USA using M.I.T. to research Impr. Hvy Tank

For these reasons I would
1) remove nuclear_physics from MIT (Robert Oppenheimer with 9 skill should be fair enough)
2) reduce the MIT skill to 7
3) add "Regio Politecnico di Milano" to Italy skill 4 specialities mathematics, electronics, mechanics, management, chemistry. Timespan 1930-1970
4) add Ugo Cavallero for the logistic. He became the youngest general in the Italian Army at 38 years old, he planned the battle of Vittorio Veneto (which defeated the Austrian Empire in WWI), he graduated in mathematics and was general manager for Pirelli and the chairman of the Ansaldo. I would suggest him with skill 4 and the following specialities large and small unit tactics, centralized execution, management, mathematics, management. Timespan 1937 (back in service in the Army)-1945 hypothetical date of retirement (he was killed in 1943 during the troubled days of the Italian armistice.

Regio Politecnico di Milano
ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politecnico_di_Milano#History
ref http://www.chem.polimi.it/dipartimento/milestones.php
pic

Ugo Cavallero
ref http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugo_Cavallero
ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugo_Cavallero
ref http://www.difesa.it/smd/casmd/capi-smd/cavallero.htm
pic

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