What do you think CK2 (and other Paradox games) taught you about history?

[dolgion]

I was thinking about whether I started playing Crusader Kings 2 because I enjoyed history, or whether I started to enjoy history because of CK2 (and EU4 to a lesser degree). I find myself reading historical fiction and stuff like "Guns, Germs and Steel" when previously I never really paid attention to the genre. I find myself daydreaming what the past must've been like for the people living in those times. Am I becoming a history nerd? What is it about these games that draws people in like this? I wonder whether the steep learning curve is actually beneficial because it gives new players the feeling that it's something can really dig into.

And lastly as the title says, what are some of the things these games taught you about history? (not to imply that Paradox games are 100% historically accurate)

 

[thadian]

I read Guns, Germs and Steel, Collapse, The World Until Yesterday quickly after release. I enjoy Jared Diamond, Jacques Fresco, PBS, NPR and scouring the internet for historical information. I have always been interested in anthropology, archeology, history, sociology and psychology. I feel that Crusader Kings 2 lets me "play with" a few of my interests. I mostly like games that let me "play with" something I am interested in, because I find it stimulating to that interest...

If that makes sense.

 

[Talq]

Well the forums have taught me that people learn a wide variety of history...

It has encouraged me to keep reading about the period.

 

[Will Steel]

Well these games certainly helped me learn about many historical borders and locations of empires, as well as inciting my interest in knowledge about areas previously unknown to me, for example I didn't know where Incas were until I actually played EU3 when I was 13 year old.

What these games actually did was to make me more interested in history and cartography, and helped me to start reading more and more about the historical areas and events. As well as making me somewhat more arrogant and hungry for power in real life, and cynical of politicians and diplomats of today.

 

[dolgion]

Well these games certainly helped me learn about many historical borders and locations of empires, as well as inciting my interest in knowledge about areas previously unknown to me, for example I didn't know where Incas were until I actually played EU3 when I was 13 year old.

What these games actually did was to make me more interested in history and cartography, and helped me to start reading more and more about the historical areas and events. As well as making me somewhat more arrogant and hungry for power in real life, and cynical of politicians and diplomats of today.

Yeah doesn't it? I think the way political dynamics are translated into gameplay systems causes me to think that real life politicians really have no other choice but become players in a game about balancing popular interests, and interests of people with influence. It's really not what the political system is ideally meant to be like. I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder, but it could also be that Paradox are embedding their own cynical view of these things in the games. Or it could really just be the reality of it. Would be an interesting discussion to have...

 

[Knotz]

Everything. Which isn't to say I know a lot about history but much like Jon Snow I didn't know anything before I started playing. I think I know a lot more than the lay person about medieval history now, also culture and religion. Now granted it's not like CK2 taught me these things but it often served as a catalyst for me scampering off to read about the Sassanids or the Picts or the Karlings or Catharism etc.

 

[Teten1]

Courtesy of Paradox, as an american, I can find other countries on a map. I'm sure other americans can agree with me that it isn't the most common skill here.

 

[clockworkBabbag]

Courtesy of Paradox, as an american, I can find other countries on a map. I'm sure other americans can agree with me that it isn't the most common skill here.

I'd like to second this. Most of the European geography I know is because of CK2. Even if the borders aren't the same, I know all the general locations and areas.

 

[xXAJBoomXx]

Courtesy of Paradox, as an american, I can find other countries on a map. I'm sure other americans can agree with me that it isn't the most common skill here.

That is so ignorant. I knew maps before I played PDox games. I knew history. As a Dixie American, I take extreme exception to the notion that being American makes you ignorant of other countries. Being ignorant makes you ignorant.

 

[thadian]

That is so ignorant. I knew maps before I played PDox games. I knew history. As a Dixie American, I take extreme exception to the notion that being American makes you ignorant of other countries. Being ignorant makes you ignorant.

This.

As a "Blue" American from a "Red" state (Indiana), I can assure you that every person I know and associate with in any way is educated about the world, cultured, and has interest in things like history, philosophy, multicultural issues... I pick and choose my associations based on a set of criteria that involves personal intelligence. Yes, there are a lot of "Stupids" here in my hometown, in my state and in my country. You see them all the time; which really makes me mad. I know this stereotype is not the typical American from any region.

Even saying that about Americans, even about ones from South Carolina, Texas or Florida, would be akin to saying "Muslims are just terrorists." I am wondering where YOU are from that produces people who buy into media imagery? More likely, it isn't your country; its you.

 

[mrigor]

I have a degree in history, and came to the game after falling in love with EU3 one caffeine-fueled night as an undergrad. I proudly carry the history nerd label, and have for most of my life. That said, CK2 has kindled an interest in me to further investigate the various migratory periods of the region's history. Also, I've developed something of a love of steppe history in general, what with the complex nature of its inhabitants down through time.

 

[Mikalos]

As a historian thos gam,e has made me appreaciate just how terrible lessons of history people are getting

 

[Ryuken1106]

Because of CK2, I knew exactly where Crimea was. Then I had a moment of "what have I done?" and stared at the computer for a few minutes when I was listening to the news about Crimea when all the stuff started going on over there as I, just minutes before, conquered it as the kingdom of Rus.

 

[Gunnarr]

The only thing it teaches is geography and historical bounderies and characters. Otherwise, a lot of the other stuff in the game does not make much sense

 

[Lhutien]

-that you have to kill all the karlings
-that the vikings always sacked rome because it was rich
-byzantium always fails
-incest is wincest

 

[General Karthos]

I got an "Inernational Baccalaureate" education. There was a time when I could locate every country in the world on the map. Many miles and years have worn down much of my memory, and Africa has changed a lot in the decade I've been out of high school.

Those people who went to the standard high school could locate many of the countries in the world.

Those who went to the honors high school could locate none. "Honors" was a twisted system, requiring the maintenance of a 3.5 GPA, and they did everything they could to ensure that you maintained that by giving obscenely easy classes. When I had to draw (from hand, from memory) a map of every nation in Africa, and memorize their names in English and in Spanish as well as their colonial names and who controlled them, they had to color in every country with a different pattern. (I'm serious about both assignments.)

Most of what I learned in the IB program was, however, not slanted towards Europe. Most of it was South America, Africa, Asia, the Middle East, and Oceania (mostly the first three, with more of the Middle East than Oceania). I came in through EU3, and I learned where a lot of ancient tiny German states were, thanks to EU3. Then came CK2, when I first kinda understood the rudiments of feudal mechanics. It had always been kind of a vague idea in my head, but now I know just how much the King WAS his country back in the day.

The other thing CK2 helped me learn was just why the reformation happened when it did and not earlier. The Catholic church in CK2 is doubtless corrupt and banal, but their power is somewhat limited, whereas in EU4, the power of the Papacy is immense. And the "excesses of the Catholic Kings" are fairly dire too.

My education on the reformation had, before I started playing EU, consisted of a single video-tape we watched in my 7th Grade history class that was produced by the Catholic Church and portrated Martin Luther (the founder of my religion; I'm a Lutheran) as a demon-worshipping baby-eating monstrosity. I mean, it wasn't that exactly, but when every single monlogue that the actor playing Luther had came in front of flames and was overlaid with scenes of peasants murdering each other.... Plus the deep, evil voice too.... Luther hated the Jews, I don't deny that, (we tend to gloss over that part in Sunday School) but he wasn't evil. He's not going to be sainted by the Catholic Church any time soon though.

 

[Sunspawn]

I learned quite a bit about Kievan Rus as a result of finding interest in it from playing as Vladymir Monomakh with that genius trait.

 

[sreckom92]

CK2 simply intrigued me to learn more. Didn't teach me much itself, just intrigued me to learn more about countries that I play with.

 

[Nyrael]

The other thing CK2 helped me learn was just why the reformation happened when it did and not earlier. The Catholic church in CK2 is doubtless corrupt and banal, but their power is somewhat limited, whereas in EU4, the power of the Papacy is immense. And the "excesses of the Catholic Kings" are fairly dire too.

Huh? The Catholic Church in this period was far more powerful than the one after the Middle Ages. The later Popes could neither force Europe into Crusading, he could not enforce secular law upon them, etc. (hell, he even came to be a Detective in my country XD) while it was more or less a norm in the Middle Ages that everything somehow leads to the Church.
The only thing that the later Catholic Church had but earlier didn't was the larger amount of money and a larger degree of corruption.

Abnd that does bring one to the issue that the Pope in CK2 is not meddlesome enough ^^;

CK2 simply intrigued me to learn more. Didn't teach me much itself, just intrigued me to learn more about countries that I play with.

^ this! It is now a tradition for me to research the country I intend to play with before or while playing it. These games are a great motivator!

 

[|emon]

What did CK2 taught me about history? My answer is: not enough. There should be more historical events and/or some summary about the state of the realm you're gonna play in. Right now it's just encouraging me to learn more and that's not enough. I'd prefer learning through playing. Not after or before.