The 3 tiers...

[Lemont Elwood]

Oh, I didn't realize that about GC...

 

[shakeled1]

The US gets less than twenty years in the game and Gran Columbia gets zero.

I think in the Battle for the Balkans stream Johan said the game would go up to 1820 like EU3 did (though there was a lot of "I think" sort of stuff in there so it might have been a number pulled out just because of EU3), so that's more than 20.

 

[Caban]

I think in the Battle for the Balkans stream Johan said the game would go up to 1820 like EU3 did (though there was a lot of "I think" sort of stuff in there so it might have been a number pulled out just because of EU3), so that's more than 20.

Either way I'm immediately editing the game to extend out closer to 1900 to give the colonial revolters some time to be relevant on the world stage.

 

[ThatJamesguy01]

Either way I'm immediately editing the game to extend out closer to 1900 to give the colonial revolters some time to be relevant on the world stage.

Yeah but the EUIV mechanics don't work at all past 1830, thanks to changes in warfare, industrialization, and the rise of democracy (springtime of nations)

 

[Grubnessul]

Don't forget that basetax and manpower in the colonies is quite low, so they won't achieve their historical power.

 

[alexthelol]

Interesting idea, but i'm afraid of this feature taking away the sandbox aspect of the game.

 

[ThatJamesguy01]

Interesting idea, but i'm afraid of this feature taking away the sandbox aspect of the game.

It's not a feature, it's just how they are developing it mentally. It's just there in house 'devtime' they are spending the most time doing events for Tier one nations, then tier two nations, then tier three, and then tier four. They've done it that way so that the nations which were historically important and are also the easiest to do events for get the most they possibly can while less important nations get some but not hordes of meainingless flavour. This has probably been in all of the EU games, but it just hasn't been shown before who was in what category. Afterall I can't imagine developing any of the EU games without having some sort of priority list, and this is that priority list.

 

[Spacehamster]

Would be awesome if you could squeeze in the Borgia dynasty somewhere so if you played as Papal States you could reform into an atheist monarchy run by Cesare!

This is true. But alike Sweden the United Provinces were one of the Europe's (and even global) superpowers and main players both economically, culturally, military (Maurician reform that was a real revolution in warfare) and politically. Same could be said about Burgundy for the 15th century until the unfortunate death of Duke Charles or about the role of Venice in the 15th-16th centuries. But I cannot say the same seriously about Sweden despite its great role in TYW and the Baltic politics, even prior to Poltava.

Really, I like the Swedish history and such but placing it among the 8 most important countries for late medieval and early modern history is just a big exaggeration.

Netherlands does not beat Sweden's achievement list:

• 1) Invented linear warfare tactics which made Tercio obsolete with fire-and-movement tactics that also included light artillery and shock cavalry reforms unlike the Dutch one that mainly concerned just infantry (inspired by the Dutch reform, but it was completed by Sweden)
• 2) Saved Protestantism and kept back German unification for another 200 years, before Swedish intervention in the 30 Years War the Habsburgs was rolling up everything in its' way, including precious Brandenburg/Denmark/Bohemia. Has Gustavus Adolphus not landed in Germany today's Europe would not have been recognizable.
• 3) Faced and defeated the Habsburg dynasty which means winning in a war against Austria, Spain and the Holy Roman Empire all at the same time whilst simultaniously defeating Poland and Denmark several times during the 30 Years War.

What did Netherlands do besides establishing a few colonies and break free from Spain?

 

[Prussia]

What did Netherlands do besides establishing a few colonies and break free from Spain?

My sides are orbiting Pluto as we speak

 

[Grubnessul]

Would be awesome if you could squeeze in the Borgia dynasty somewhere so if you played as Papal States you could reform into an atheist monarchy run by Cesare!


Netherlands does not beat Sweden's achievement list:

• 1) Invented linear warfare tactics which made Tercio obsolete with fire-and-movement tactics that also included light artillery and shock cavalry reforms unlike the Dutch one that mainly concerned just infantry (inspired by the Dutch reform, but it was completed by Sweden)
• 2) Saved Protestantism and kept back German unification for another 200 years, before Swedish intervention in the 30 Years War the Habsburgs was rolling up everything in its' way, including precious Brandenburg/Denmark/Bohemia. Has Gustavus Adolphus not landed in Germany today's Europe would not have been recognizable.
• 3) Faced and defeated the Habsburg dynasty which means winning in a war against Austria, Spain and the Holy Roman Empire all at the same time whilst simultaniously defeating Poland and Denmark several times during the 30 Years War.

What did Netherlands do besides establishing a few colonies and break free from Spain?

Actually, Gustavus continued the ideas Maurice of Orange had started. As for the Netherlands:
-Amsterdam was the financial centre until after the Wars against Napoleon
- William of Orange was the leader of the coalitions against Louis XIII
- Was a player in the War of the Spanish Succession (although that was pretty much the end of the Republic as major military power)

As for Sweden in the 30 Years War: it relied heavily on French money and suffered some major defeats and was almost forced out of the war if not for the French intervention.

 

[Fawr]

I've always just assumed that since the staff working on Swedish functions already know about Swedish history that its the cheapest nation for Paradox to put into tier1. If enough of them come from Sweden it would certainly be one of the 8 countries they know the most about!

 

[Galaahd]

What did Netherlands do besides establishing a few colonies and break free from Spain?

Netherlands monopolized the trade from Asia to Europe for a whole century, became incredibly rich and wealthy, led a financial and commercial revolution (stock exchanges).

 

[Red_warning]

As for Sweden in the 30 Years War: it relied heavily on French money and suffered some major defeats and was almost forced out of the war if not for the French intervention.

No it wasn't. Most of the war was funded by plunder, only a sliver of cost was covered by French subsidises. Even at the end of the war the Swedish army was one of the most experience and well equipped in Europe, and even in the late 1640s Swedish troops were fighting as far south as Bohemia (Prague was plundered by Swedish forces in 1648). Never were they close to being pushed out of the HRE.

Wikipedia has a pretty good list of the important battles, plenty of them fought very late into the war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_intervention_in_the_Thirty_Years'_War#Battles

 

[Prussia]

No it wasn't. Most of the war was funded by plunder, only a sliver of cost was covered by French subsidises. Even at the end of the war the Swedish army was one of the most experience and well equipped in Europe, and even in the late 1640s Swedish troops were fighting as far south as Bohemia (Prague was plundered by Swedish forces in 1648). Never were they close to being pushed out of the HRE.

Wikipedia has a pretty good list of the important battles, plenty of them fought very late into the war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_intervention_in_the_Thirty_Years'_War#Battles

Yes it was.
Don't wanna argue here, but Sweden was heavily subsidised and paid by both France and Netherlands. Fighting capability on the other hand is another story and indeed the Swedish Army proved to be one of excellent quality. And since you cited a wikipedia article here it is:

Like Christian IV before him, Gustavus Adolphus came to aid the German Lutherans, to forestall Catholic aggression against his homeland, and to obtain economic influence in the German states around the Baltic Sea; he was also concerned about the growing power of the Holy Roman Empire, and, like Christian IV, was heavily subsidized by Cardinal Richelieu, the Chief Minister of Louis XIII of France, and by the Dutch.[43]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War (read midway to Swedish intervention.)

 

[Grubnessul]

No it wasn't. Most of the war was funded by plunder, only a sliver of cost was covered by French subsidises. Even at the end of the war the Swedish army was one of the most experience and well equipped in Europe, and even in the late 1640s Swedish troops were fighting as far south as Bohemia (Prague was plundered by Swedish forces in 1648). Never were they close to being pushed out of the HRE.

Wikipedia has a pretty good list of the important battles, plenty of them fought very late into the war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_intervention_in_the_Thirty_Years'_War#Battles

Actually, Nördlingen almost lost Sweden all its gains in Germany. See Peter Wilson's Europe's Tragedy

 

[Red_warning]

Actually, Nördlingen almost lost Sweden all its gains in Germany. See Peter Wilson's Europe's Tragedy

But Sweden did a lot better in the battles that followed, so it matters little to point at a single battle early in Sweden's involvement.

 

[Red_warning]

Yes it was.
Don't wanna argue here, but Sweden was heavily subsidised and paid by both France and Netherlands. Fighting capability on the other hand is another story and indeed the Swedish Army proved to be one of excellent quality. And since you cited a wikipedia article here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War (read midway to Swedish intervention.)

To quote Captain Gars from earlier in this thread

"400.000 out of a yearly cost between 10 and 30 million is not really financing it."

 

[Prussia]

To quote Captain Gars from earlier in this thread

"400.000 out of a yearly cost between 10 and 30 million is not really financing it."

Then he's clearly wrong.

1/4th of the state budget is a whole lot more than just "financing". Deal with it.

Source:Muscovy and Sweden in the Thirty Years' War 1630-1635
by B. F. Porshnev

 

[Red_warning]

Then he's clearly wrong.
View attachment 84515
1/4th of the state budget is a whole lot more than just "financing". Deal with it.

Source:Muscovy and Sweden in the Thirty Years' War 1630-1635
by B. F. Porshnev

Even the source you provided disagrees with your position. If we take your numbers, that you seemingly got from google books library, as the truth then it clearly shows that Sweden mainly funded itself.

And a problem with only looking at the state budget is that it will ignore costs and incomes not related to it.

 

[Prussia]

Even the source you provided disagrees with your position. If we take your numbers, that you seemingly got from google books library, as the truth then it clearly shows that Sweden mainly funded itself.

Nope, I don't know how you made that up, I guess you have a pretty wild imagination and give a whole new meaning to the words of the english language OR you have absolutely no idea of economics so I guess you are kind of forgiven.

Which part of: "The idea that Sweden fought in Germany to a substantialy degree on French money and was, in that sense, France's mercenary, is perfectly correct."- makes you think that Sweden's campaign in germany was self-funded? Btw have you also missed the part that says: "...and an even larger porportion of the specifically military section of the budget"- so let's fairly say 1/3rd of it and in reality almost half of the budget..

I'm not going to argue anymore, you either have problems understanding english or you (most probably) deliberately trying to defend a lost argument. I'll leave the decision to the fellow forumites.

With respect, Prussia.

EDIT- I see you added this

And a problem with only looking at the state budget is that it will ignore costs and incomes not related to it.

Don't bother reading anything I wrote and just ignore all my posts please, you clearly have no clue how budgets and economies work.
Paradox, sorry for wasting your bandwidth.