Hello everyone, I'm Tegus, one of the programmers working on Crusader
Kings II. Welcome to the fifth dev diary for CK2 and the first one written
by me. In today's dev diary I'm going to talk a bit about the map and why
we've chosen to implement a new one in CK2.

As you all know, in our games the map is an important tool for both
displaying information and setting the mood of the game. In HoI3 we had a
grayish map that we felt was appropriate for a war game. We took this map
and altered it slightly when making Victoria 2, but this time the map was
drawn with vivid colors to portray the progress of the era. The next game to
use the map was Divine Wind because we all felt that EU3 was in need of a
graphical face lift. While this map technology looked good in the
mentioned games, there were certain technological limitations which we
wanted to improve upon or get rid of.

With CK2, we have devoted time to rewrite the graphics code for the map
from scratch. We are back to a pure 3D map similar to the one used in EU3:
Rome. We have visible topology and you will be able to rotate the world
around the way you please. While neither the technology nor the art assets
are in any way final, we do feel that the new map already has great
potential and is a big step in the right direction towards our visual
goals. Hopefully this new tech will also span multiple games, so we
can steadily improve it.



To be fair, if I would describe what we have done with the map so far, it
would just be sentence after sentence of technical mumbo-jumbo, so I'll
spare you the details. Let's instead focus on what visual details that
have been improved and what we want to add before the game is shipped.

We've improved the looks of the water significantly and added refraction
so you can actually see topology under the ocean surface. Aerie has taken
the time to find real-world topology data(although we've exaggerated it
somewhat), it definitely gives a cool feel to the terrain. Borders have
also gotten some love and now use a new system which enables us to make
them much smoother. Much of the previous jaggedness is gone. We've also
begun to implement and test a more detailed lighting model, which we will
continue to improve upon until we release the game. Another cool
feature(which isn't really part of the map) are the units, whose tabards
now show the heraldic flag of the unit leader.



But there are still some things which we're missing. We need trees and
rivers. We need to add province names and realm names, which exist in all
our latest games. I'd like to add more information to borders, so borders
between two realms are colored by the realms' respective colors. There are
of course lots of more things we want to do, but I won't spill the beans
just yet.



All in all, we are very happy with the way the new map is coming along.
Hopefully you will enjoy it as well once you get to play the game!

Fredrik Zetterman, Deluxe programmer, currently working on Crusader Kings
II

 

[repent]

I can't say I'm a fan of the rotating map even though I do like the map itself even if it is a bit featureless (despite topography). The rotation function seems a bit pointless and I never used it in Rome (after trying it). I couldn't see any practical use for it.

 

[Finnish]

The map looks pretty barren to me, and I don't see me using the map rotation function either. The mountains are pretty fine, though.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

The map looks pretty barren to me, and I don't see me using the map rotation function either. The mountains are pretty fine, though.

Give 'em time, it's all concept stuff at this stage.

 

[RedRooster81]

Give 'em time, it's all concept stuff at this stage.

We are only on the morning of the third day of the Creation yet: the waters have receded, but the trees haven't quite started growing Be patient and enjoy the view.

 

[King]

I think that he was trying to ask what effect terrain will have on battles. Like in EU3 where mountainous terrain gave defenders an advantage.

No he is not asking that, he is asking for a 2D map after 5 years of Paradox making 3D maps.

 

[Figo]

miniatures

Well. This scale of maps and geo-detalization not connect with old-style single warrior miniatures now from my POV. What do you think about idea to show armies as small squadrons with more than 1 man?

or something like in the last Civ unit representation.

One soldier in a desert it's so old for the brand new map =(

 

[KonradRichtmark]

With a whole squad of soldiers (who would individually have to be smaller), the heraldry on them wouldn't show that well.

 

[unmerged(155641)]

The map looks awesome.

 

[Negru Voda]

Well. This scale of maps and geo-detalization not connect with old-style single warrior miniatures now from my POV. What do you think about idea to show armies as small squadrons with more than 1 man?

or something like in the last Civ unit representation.

One soldier in a desert it's so old for the brand new map =(

The best feedback untill now imo

I appreciate the clearness and minimalistic approach with a 2D map. But I support the move into 3D, however, I think that I never really liked the soldier representations. More abstract representations of armies on the map (huzzah for counters) is my preference, or something like what Figo said.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

Here's how I see the rotation function. It doesn't have a gigantic amount of practical function in a strategy game. It looks really cool though and as I said earlier, visuals are important. Now if adding this rotation function was taking away development time from some other feature that added to gameplay, I'd be against it, but if I understand the division of labour in game development, it probably isn't. Bearing that in mind, I can't think of a single reason to oppose it and I hope it gets exported to other games. I would love to play a game of V2 as Russia with the camera over Moscow facing west as I invaded Germany!

 

[safferli]

Here's how I see the rotation function. It doesn't have a gigantic amount of practical function in a strategy game. It looks really cool though and as I said earlier, visuals are important. Now if adding this rotation function was taking away development time from some other feature that added to gameplay, I'd be against it, but if I understand the division of labour in game development, it probably isn't. Bearing that in mind, I can't think of a single reason to oppose it and I hope it gets exported to other games. I would love to play a game of V2 as Russia with the camera over Moscow facing west as I invaded Germany!

The problem with the tilting map is that you can really only do it for parts of maps -- like CK, or Rome had. If you have a full map, and tilt it (for instance watching from Moscow to Berlin), you'll see Moscow in the far edges of that map, as the globe is a... well, globe. You get into problems with infinite circles, so to speak. As if you'd be staring in a mirrored mirror, infinite versions of the map!

 

[repent]

After thinking on the map rotation while eating dinner I have thought of a way it could add to the overall CKII experience.

Ive decided to play with my map orientated towards Jerusalem the whole time for extra historical immersion!

Dear Mr Paradox Developer, could we please have a hot key toggleable "Mappa Mundi View" setting that orientates map view to Jerusalem automatically so as you scroll around your kingdom the camera keeps Jerusalem (or the direction it is in) at the center of the screen!!!

Now that is innovation!

Maybe we could have a big Christ in the sky presiding over all....

DEUS VULT!

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

The problem with the tilting map is that you can really only do it for parts of maps -- like CK, or Rome had. If you have a full map, and tilt it (for instance watching from Moscow to Berlin), you'll see Moscow in the far edges of that map, as the globe is a... well, globe. You get into problems with infinite circles, so to speak. As if you'd be staring in a mirrored mirror, infinite versions of the map!

I'm not quite following you here. I realise that the CK map is different than a globe, and projection etc would change, but wouldn't it still function basically the same? I assume therew would be some sort of 'horizon' for beyond where you were looking... ever played Tropico 3? Simulates it rather well.

 

[safferli]

I'm not quite following you here. I realise that the CK map is different than a globe, and projection etc would change, but wouldn't it still function basically the same? I assume therew would be some sort of 'horizon' for beyond where you were looking... ever played Tropico 3? Simulates it rather well.

I'm not a programmer, but I once talked with a programmer on this. He said that it is possible to do these things, but it needs additional computational resources. So, take everything I say with a big grain of salt.

Think about your example of Moscow again: you tilt and scroll the map that you have Moscow at your back, and view Berlin in front. Now, the view goes farther, Netherlands, UK, over to the US, etc until you're back at Moscow, where it starts again. Even if you put a "horizon" somewhere, the actual computation of this horizon (if you want to do it correctly and not cut off at some arbitrary value) takes a lot of computing power, as you basically need to step-by-step find out where to "fade out" the view.

Again, I really don't know what I am talking about, and given the fact that my friend is doing his PhD in mathematics/computer sciences, he might only look at the theoretical problems. There might be an easy workaround, but the fact that the only two Paradox games that have a tilting map are the only ones that do not have a full, continuous globe map leads me to believe he was right.

 

[Tegus]

I'm not a programmer, but I once talked with a programmer on this. He said that it is possible to do these things, but it needs additional computational resources. So, take everything I say with a big grain of salt.

Think about your example of Moscow again: you tilt and scroll the map that you have Moscow at your back, and view Berlin in front. Now, the view goes farther, Netherlands, UK, over to the US, etc until you're back at Moscow, where it starts again. Even if you put a "horizon" somewhere, the actual computation of this horizon (if you want to do it correctly and not cut off at some arbitrary value) takes a lot of computing power, as you basically need to step-by-step find out where to "fade out" the view.

Again, I really don't know what I am talking about, and given the fact that my friend is doing his PhD in mathematics/computer sciences, he might only look at the theoretical problems. There might be an easy workaround, but the fact that the only two Paradox games that have a tilting map are the only ones that do not have a full, continuous globe map leads me to believe he was right.

Not really. I already know how I would solve this problem without even have tried to program it. I'd go as far as saying it would be trivial given the tech we've already have now in CK2. The trick is simply to use a horizon (as you mention) and fade the terrain with some distance fog. Why your friend said this would be computationally expensive, I don't know. It's easy and lightweight.

 

[safferli]

Not really. I already know how I would solve this problem without even have tried to program it. I'd go as far as saying it would be trivial given the tech we've already have now in CK2. The trick is simply to use a horizon (as you mention) and fade the terrain with some distance fog. Why your friend said this would be computationally expensive, I don't know. It's easy and lightweight.

Well, I gladly stand corrected I talked about him with this at the release of Rome, so it's probably absolete

 

[Tecnócrata]

And still more than a year to go. This is torture, and not a squasamento.

 

[repent]

And still more than a year to go. This is torture, and not a squasamento.

Agreed.

...But I was kind of serious about the "Mappa Mundi View" (see above).

 

[sumdood]

For the love of God, include a political map! No matter how useful you make it, the terrain map will always be too green and brown for my liking.

 

[vertinox]

It looks nice. Like a beefed up EU:Rome map.

But you know we'd be happier if you had a flat map that looked like a medieval cloth map or a tapestry Like how Magna Mundi is doing.

I'm curious how the political map looks in more detail. I hardly ever play any paradox game using the geography map.

(edit)

What would be really nice is if you included layers that you could toggle. Like turning shields on and off. Showing ownership by county, dukedom, and then kingdom by color rather than by just by shields. Also to be able to see weather in political map mode would be nice as well.