Zoroastrian strategies

[Damarrocarion]

Since the recent patch, I've chosen to play as the Yagbuid dynasty in Turkestan. I converted to Zoroastrianism after I consolidated my hold on Turkestan and Khiva. This may not be ideal, as you are Turkish and Tengri in the beginning, but it would not be the first time a tribe of horsemen from the north laid claim to Persia. Plus, I like converting to Zoroastrianism from a pagan religion more than converting from Islam. It seems more plausible.

Have you tried starting as the Zoroastrian vassal of Yagbuids yet?

 

[killerbee256]

This is the strategy I opt for. It might not suit everyone though, as it isn't an ethnic Persian revival. However, the Parthians were a semi-nomadic Caspian people that moved south to form a great empire, so it doesn't feel too wrong to have a steppe tribe convert to Zoroastrianism and then founding a great dynasty and Persian Empire.

Until the coming of the Turkic people the steps were in large parts inhabited by speakers of Iranian Languages, becoming Persians wouldn't have been much of a switch.

 

[Nylaeth]

Have you tried starting as the Zoroastrian vassal of Yagbuids yet?

Yoishta? A few times. I was pulverized every time. Once by a recently-converted-to-Islam Satrap Vandad. As I am not good/patient/gamey/whatever enough to make it work, I've opted to be his liege. As a consolation prize, I'll make his dynasty vassal kings of Turkestan or whatever when I have the empire.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Here is another way. I call it "little Armenia that could". This is because Bagrationi dynasty is the only one in game which can be traced back to Sassanids via history files.

It seems in current environment, Abbasid Caliph declares war to Armenia from the get-go (sometimes to Alavids). However, the Caliph is fairly weak at the start and if one does the usual money borrowing and goes to wait the enemy to Suenik, Armenians kick Caliph to curb. Caliph is forced to pay up over 700 in reparations and from there it will be smooth sailing as most likely Calips vassals revolt en masse. Meanwhile with couple of merc stacks, Armenia can grab most of their de-jure lands. (Note about above picture, I granted independence to my de-jure Georgian vassals as I like having friendly kingdom in full power to north and being my ally)

After you take Azerbaijan or Gilan, you can set your capital there for a while and swap religions and then move back to your de-jure capital. Tabriz is also conviniently located for a holy site and if it can be taken (as I did when Abbasids were in revolt), it will make life much easier with increased MA and county converting. Of course, the big purple stack of doom to your immediate west is not nice neighbor to deal with now

Naturally if someone wants to just have a nice Miaphisyte game, this works well enough. You do need worry about Azerbaijan or Gilan and can just push straight to the Mediterranean coast and grab Antioch for yourself with the money Caliph so nicely provided.

 

[unmerged(585584)]

Bavandids are as well (vassals of Shia Alavids, just east of Gilan). Though, it wasn't really represented in the game, they were descended from the Sassanid emperor, Kavadh via his heretical Mazdaki son.

 

[Cetan]

Is the "Swear Fealty to Khiva" and take it over through factions strategy the only real way to survive now?

I've avoided doing it for so long, because it feels kind of gamey, but if there's no other chance with the improved Saffarids/Samanids... I just might have to justify it as a "Zoroastrian Uprising" or something.

 

[unmerged(77885)]

One thing to add is to somehow find a way to outlast the Abassids until they have a decadence revolt. They seem to usually get one around 950. With them knocked down a few peggs, its seems things get easier.

 

[Cetan]

So here's where I am with my Zoroastrian attempt. Took me a few tries to get here.

I swore fealty to Khiva, and pushed Elective Succession. I then pushed the Karen for Khiva faction, but had to fight a war. Meanwhile, Khiva attacked the Shahi Kingdom in Kabulistan, and took it before my war finished.

Yabguids decided to expand north, and have been involved in a very long and bloody war with Zhetysu, making the northern threat non-existent for 20 years. During this time, I start mass-banishing the Sunni rulers I won, and any other ruler pissed at me.

Saffarids turned their sight onto Merv, while the Abbasids went after that one Tabaristan province. I surrendered that one pretty quickly. I tried to fight off the Saffarids, but despite being evenly matched twice, they won the battles. I surrendered.

10 years later, the Saffarid Shah dies, and his son is caught up in a 4000-man Zoroastrian Revolt in Merv that he cannot defeat. I use this to press all claims on the Merv provinces, avoiding angering the Abbasids in a holy war. (Luckily, they got in a fight with Tulunid Egypt right after this started.)

I have since retaken Merv, and am waiting out the truce timer on Saffarids before I take another section (most likely Khorastan, for Holy Site and Persian/Zoroastrian territories). We're evenly matched, but he beats be by 4-5 ducats/month. I also goofed and gifted away half of my levies when I took Merv (vassalizing Dihistan); Merv is thankfully all Persian/Zoro still, so it will only be a year before it starts producing levies and tax.

Edit: I've also been blessed with a 5000-man strong Ibadi rebellion in the Saffarid's Indian territory.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Is the "Swear Fealty to Khiva" and take it over through factions strategy the only real way to survive now?

No. You can stay independent but you have to use Gurgan as sacrificial lamb against Saffarids (which they typically go due to AI preferring de-jure lands). Likewise, if you want a kingdom title, you can get one by first taking Khiva from Samanids. After this, provided Yagbuids had no resounding success yet, you can holy war for Sur durya and then Zhetusy (They start with no upgrades and thus easy to blitz with mercs) and this gives you kingdom of Turkestan. Of course kingdom is not needed.

The key here though is that Samanids have their holy war and lose it, so there is no way they can expand any further. Either against you or Shahi. If against Shahi, you need to use your armies to kill his armies so Shahi ends up winning.

Of course, temporary conversion is always an option. You can keep your initial capital in Dihistan. When Saffarids come knocking, convert and and expand at Samanids expense for a while, until you can swap your capital to Khiva and convert. Actually temporary conversion even allows you to usurp crown of Khiva without owning all of it, which makes things easier. As muslim you get ton of piety easily so 1000 piety needed is not too bad.

In this game I have won Saffarids three time with mercs and use of terrain (well, two white peaces and one win, he always holy wars for one province in Tabaristan). I swore fealty to Samanids for two years after religious rebellions destroyed his kingdom, so I could usurp the title as by then half of de-jure Khiva was held by strong Zoroastrian rebel and I had no claim there. The original shah's family are still in my kingdom. They only held Cach and are currently vassals of Rostam Bavandid's son after he ran to exile into my court and I made him duke of Sur Durya.

 

[atnexus]

I've managed to establish a powerful Karen realm and I am now well on the way to completely conquering both the Samanids and Saffarids. Here is how I did it, note that I am playing on Ironman.

Played the RNG, I kept reloading until I had 4600 event troops (I've seen as many as 4800) I had to reload many, many, many times to get that many. Immediately borrowed 300 gold from Jewish merchant and hired the Alan band, the 1750 merc unit (don't be cheap and go for smaller ones, the upkeep cost is almost the same and every hundred soldiers matters) That gave me almost 8k troops with all my levies. I then immediately declared war on the Tahirids and the Saffarids (that way I could live off the land in Tahirid territory). Saffarids had almost 10k event troops, in all cases they split them up and each of the three stacks goes to a different province. The goal of course is to eat that elephant in small chunks, unfortunately however two of those stacks clumped together before I could gather my full army. So I fought and destroyed about 6.5k of their troops in the desert in Tahirid province. I had 5400 soldiers left after that (and with decent brave generals) against another 6.5k of Saffarid troops (their remaining event stack got reinforced with their levies).

What happened next was some amount of luck. Samanids of course joined in against me, but they joined on the side of the Tahirids (the lucky part). I kept playing the repositioning game with the Saffarid stack, but they refused to attack me in the mountains, the AI got a bit smarter since the last patch. However by that point 4k Samanid troops finally showed up in the next province and apparently changed the AI's calculation that caused the Saffarid stack to finally assault me in the mountain province. Which was what I wanted, between the decent generals and the mountain bonus I destroyed the Saffarid army. However, as soon as the Saffarid engaged me the Samanid stack began moving into my province as well, which would have been really bad, except that by this point the Tahirids were more than ready to accept a white peace from me and since the Samanids joined on their side their 4k stack was immediately neutralized and I was able to destroy the remainder of the Saffarid army in peace.

I won that war against Saffarids and got one whole province from them. Then I was able to tear the Samanids apart without anyone bothering me. The Saffarids still managed to conquer Tahirids, but that was several years later than they normally do and their army was very weak, making them easy prey for me later on.

 

[Cetan]

Good tips, will try them if this implodes on me. Although, I think the Saoshyant was just born...

Now to see if I can pull it off.

 

[bjorn1977]

I'm sure it's not the intention of this thread, but I was keen to try out the Zoro Great Holy Wars not having played the last couple of DLC's and started as the Saffarids. Easy to get going with 8000 event troops and easy to convert as their captial is Zoro.

 

[Krilnik]

I'm sure it's not the intention of this thread, but I was keen to try out the Zoro Great Holy Wars not having played the last couple of DLC's and started as the Saffarids. Easy to get going with 8000 event troops and easy to convert as their captial is Zoro.

Have fun when Seljuks come, unless you take care of it though

 

[trallion123]

I think the event troops Saffarids get should be lowered seeing that they control a bigger area now and have god-ruler in Ya'qub with his 21(?) martial stat.

 

[Damarrocarion]

I think the event troops Saffarids get should be lowered seeing that they control a bigger area now and have god-ruler in Ya'qub with his 21(?) martial stat.

Saffarids could do with a bit of nerf. I think Shahi should be given his whole de-jure area. Right now in ToG start Saffarids own 2 Zoroastrian counties of Afghanistan. They could be given to a single Zoroastrian count to simulate the Zunbils if nothing else since historically Saffarids took Afghanistan around 870.

 

[Cetan]

Something I found very useful, is to rush Military Organization and retinues. By 930, I had the only two locations in the world with Mil. Org III, and a retinue that matched most standing armies. Very helpful when it takes the better part of a year to draw together all your levies.

 

[disgradius]

Hey quick question guys, does anyone know how to call a Great Holy War as a Zoroastrian? I reformed Persia and re-established the High Priesthood but can't seem to find any option to do so. Do I just have to wait for my moabad to do it? Would be useful to help me wipe out Abbasids a little faster before Seljuks arrive. Been just using holy wars nonstop and I'm still halfway through Syria (Abbasids swallowed Egypt early on... made for a very interesting early game).

 

[Rev1917]

Hey quick question guys, does anyone know how to call a Great Holy War as a Zoroastrian? I reformed Persia and re-established the High Priesthood but can't seem to find any option to do so. Do I just have to wait for my moabad to do it? Would be useful to help me wipe out Abbasids a little faster before Seljuks arrive. Been just using holy wars nonstop and I'm still halfway through Syria (Abbasids swallowed Egypt early on... made for a very interesting early game).

I think the religious head calls those, like crusades, and the player has no input. Don't quote me though, since I only have one standard Zoroastrian playthrough, and am in the midst of an attempted Swedish Zoroastrian ironman.

 

[SuperTechmarine]

Karen has been surprisingly easy for me, playing with HIP.

1. Religious Reconquest for Khiva on Khiva while the Saffarids are fighting in Persia with others.
2. Wait out the truce and store money
3. Religious Reconquest for Syr Darya on Khiva, Saffarids joined in but i won quick enough that they couldn't intervene.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Has anyone encountered "Rise of the Ghaznavids" yet. Which area it targets (I assume Afghanistan), How bad is it and can it be sorted by an assassins blade?

Also, who else here thinks Khiva should have Derafsh Kaviani as CoA when held by Zoroastrian ruler?