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Wakizashi

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I am pretty much stuck now. The Saffarids are for some reason a beacon of stability and military strength, always at least 3000+ more then what I can levy. I can even the score with mercs, but even then they still have a liiiittle more troops that makes the difference in the end. SO I have Khiva and Tabaristan, but that's about it...
 

Damarrocarion

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I am pretty much stuck now. The Saffarids are for some reason a beacon of stability and military strength, always at least 3000+ more then what I can levy. I can even the score with mercs, but even then they still have a liiiittle more troops that makes the difference in the end. SO I have Khiva and Tabaristan, but that's about it...

Assuming you have those 10 year truces with Saffarids, you could try grabbing some bits of the steppes for yourself since Cumania and others should be much easier to handle than Muslims. Perhaps even do a "Caspian circle".

Also, one thing I heartily recommend for most people. After you acquire your second dychy, wait until you can slap your preferred laws in place before forming a kingdom.
 

Wakizashi

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I have a lets play series where I am playing as the Zorastrians in Karan. I think it could be very benifical for someone wanting to learn how to play them.

Here is the introduction video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R8RYNDK_FA

I'm checking it out as we speak, thanks! I hope that I can put some things to use in my own game (might start over again though).
 

Keinwyn

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I am pretty much stuck now. The Saffarids are for some reason a beacon of stability and military strength, always at least 3000+ more then what I can levy. I can even the score with mercs, but even then they still have a liiiittle more troops that makes the difference in the end. SO I have Khiva and Tabaristan, but that's about it...

That's why you need to go for Khorsan first. It really weakens the Saffarids.
 

unmerged(585584)

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I am pretty much stuck now. The Saffarids are for some reason a beacon of stability and military strength, always at least 3000+ more then what I can levy. I can even the score with mercs, but even then they still have a liiiittle more troops that makes the difference in the end. SO I have Khiva and Tabaristan, but that's about it...
Try to fight them in Tabaristan + hire mercs (also generals with mountain terrain bonuses). Their numerical superiority won't count for shit.
 

Isaios

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Try to fight them in Tabaristan + hire mercs (also generals with mountain terrain bonuses). Their numerical superiority won't count for shit.

Th combination Mountain Terrain Bonus and Unyielding (preferrably with the Patient trait) can let you off stacks three times your size (as long as you're defending obviously). It's entirely insane :D
 
Last edited:
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I was able to survive pretty easily and form the Persian Empire by starting as Karen. Immediately swear fealty to Khiva. This is key. With your bonus troops you get at start, you will be strong enough to get Khiva to give into your demand for elective succession without a fight. I got extremely lucky next when I demanded the Khiva title for myself. I was given it without a fight! I then holy warred the Tengri lands to the north and made my way around the Caspian Sea. Eventually, I had a big enough troop base and money to match the Muslims in the south without much problem. I usually waited to assault them when they were at war with the Byzantines or during a civil war.

It wasn't really difficult at all. I can see things going differently if the Muslims had holy warred me very early on, but I got lucky and they didn't attack until I had enough money and troops to hold them off. The Byzantines are starting to get scary, though. The Italian Karling King married a Byzantine Empress and now the Karling controlled Byzantine Empire consists of its base lands plus Italy and Lotharingia. Yikes.
 

TankRush

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The problem is when Hungary goes super-blobby on the steppes or the Abbasids start eying Persia, if they are stable.

Indeed, it takes a bit of luck. It's why it's important to get as much of Persia as you can, because it's not impossible to get it before the Abbasids. Khiva works better as a secondary target, in my experience, it's the Southern Persians that should be a primary target, especially before one of them conquers another. The Abbasids have a lot of varying neighbors to war with too, so it really comes down to luck that they decide to go after you instead of them. Though this could lead to later problems where they own the entire Arabian peninsula and reach all the way to Tunisia. In any case, I've also never seen the Abbasids get bloated with decadence. Even with lots of land, they still have too many men ending up unlanded. Since every Caliph has many siblings and children because of the required 4 wives.


I've seen Hungary blob a lot as well. Next game I start, when they appear I'm going to switch to them and disband like half their armies. Maybe switch them to Catholocism right away too.
 

I_AM_King_Midas

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I'm checking it out as we speak, thanks! I hope that I can put some things to use in my own game (might start over again though).

Thanks man! That means a lot. I hope you will subscribe and stick around. Knowing people enjoy the series and are watching encourages me to make more.
 

Damarrocarion

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In any case, I've also never seen the Abbasids get bloated with decadence. Even with lots of land, they still have too many men ending up unlanded. Since every Caliph has many siblings and children because of the required 4 wives.

I did my second Sohyasant game just now and Abbasids did come down with a decadence. It occurred when they were attempting to subjugate Egypt and I hit them as a good oppostunist I was. Right after my war ended, decadence invasion started to reinstall someone else. Old Caliph was deposed but they have gone through in multiple civil wars after it since and there is not much for me to do except declare war on anybody I can, march the Persians there and redecorate the mosques. I'm quite sure if AI would just execute the previous Caliph instead of keeping him as vassal in Antioch, things would be better for him :D
 

Wakizashi

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Thanks man! That means a lot. I hope you will subscribe and stick around. Knowing people enjoy the series and are watching encourages me to make more.

It certainly helped a lot. I'm now around the year 905, and as Shah of Khiva and Turkestan I today refounded the Shahdom of Persia. I'm having 44% of the required de jure lands of the Empire of Persia, with 11 more provinces divided across several emirates and satrapies that I can easily conquer. After that, I'll have to take on the Abbasids. The banishing made me ridiculously wealthy from the start of the game, which is a big plus :D Right now my total military might would count around 20K, which means I can pretty much stomp everyone around me except for the Caliphate
But no worries, I sent my diplomat guy to improve relations with the Abbasid Caliph, and I actually succeeded in having him like me 100% :D so no worries about him for the time being.
 

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I did my second Sohyasant game just now and Abbasids did come down with a decadence. It occurred when they were attempting to subjugate Egypt and I hit them as a good oppostunist I was. Right after my war ended, decadence invasion started to reinstall someone else. Old Caliph was deposed but they have gone through in multiple civil wars after it since and there is not much for me to do except declare war on anybody I can, march the Persians there and redecorate the mosques. I'm quite sure if AI would just execute the previous Caliph instead of keeping him as vassal in Antioch, things would be better for him :D

Doh... that was supposed to read "NOT get bloated with decadence".
 

Reezy

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/Reezy619/ck22013-06-1801-47-06-94_zps9db24ca9.png

My pride and joy. In addition to what I have, I conquered Arabia, Abyssinia, Maurentania and half a Mali. I gave them to relatives and granted them independence. I even went as far as to ensure that the rulers of those territories and my relatives were raised in those respective cultures. I have a Beduin kinsman an Arabia, an Ethiopian cousin in Ethiopia, etc., all ruling over their appropriately cultured vassals. I also peacefully converted Cumania and Perm (which took a long, long time) and aggressively married into them so that now my dynasty rules there as well. I've basically left the Byzantines alone, only taking their Jerusalem and defending my Cumanian allies against their constant holy wars. They are my only threat militarily now, and my next goal will be to conquer them duchy by duchy (since I have no idea how to call a Great Holy War) and eventually set up a Greek Karen Empire to rule in autonomy. I might even choose to make that my main Empire and take over the rest of the world from there.

The very start is a little tricky, and can require a couple restarts when things don't go exactly the way you want. I chose to start with a holy war in Khorasan, followed by holy wars against Khiva and Persia. If the Persian kingdom forms, you'll just have to wait a bit longer for treaties to wear off, but so long as you save all your money for mercs, you'll be able to take on anything except the Abbasids. I used Esfahan and Hamadan as my personal demense. 8 is kind of a high number for a King, but good for an Empreror. It's manageable, but you can find yourself in a bad situation if you end up with a child or low stewardship ruler. I used Primogeniture, so I didn't always have the best ruler. Hamadan and Kermanshah can be a good alternative.

If the Shia rises in Egypt, then you're gonna have a GREAT time. The Abbasids and Shia will fight each other constantly. While they're busy with that you should have no major problems consolidating your lands in Persia and Turkestan. When the Abbasids do engage you, let them take the massive supply hits from assaulting your territory in the Kermanshah/Esfahan region. The territories here are really good for traps, since you can easily load up your units in the surrounding territories without taking a supply hit, wait for them to attack into one of your stacks, and then rush your neighboring stacks in to join the fray.

The hardest part for me, besides the luck-ish beginning, was grabbing the Azerbaijan area. It takes forever to get to, has low supply, and the Abbasids will try to help if they are preoccupied (and in my game, the area was held by three different Muslims, which complicated things) Don't attack this area unless the Abbasids are tied up because you'll have a very hard time defending this area of the map.

Eventually, it was time to take back Mesopotamia and form the Empire. Everyone's situation here will be different, but for me the situation was roughly this: There were three Sayyid Muslim rulers vying for supremacy, the Shia Egyptians (who also controlled Africa and Abyssinia), the Abbasid Empire, and the Arabian Sultanate. The Sunnies were both highly decadent and the Abbasids eventually switched to some other dynasty. The Arabian Sultan was actually a vassal of the Abbasids, but this sultan controlled literally ALL of Arabia. He was a nightmare supervassal that was at war with his liege far more often than he was at peace. I waited until the Abbasids were at war with one of those two rulers and struck. It actually wasn't too bad. Their decadent armies fell hard to my horse archer mercs and retinues while my levies sieged their territory quickly. Once I snagged Baghdad and Tigris, the Arabian Sultan won his independence.

After taking Baghdad and Tigris, I formed the Empire and it was all uphill from there. Except for one roadbump: the Seljuks. I was prepared for them and made sure not to declare any wars for a while. The Seljuks were a much bigger threat, since their doomstack horse archer armies were far superior to mine. Trap-stacking isn't nearly as effective here like it is with the Abbasids. I was able to lure them to Merv, the closest mountain province, but since the travel time is so much longer here, their army was still able to defeat a military more than double their size. I lost Turkestan, but I refilled my levies and attacked back, keeping my armies larger despite the supply attrition and ultimately crushed them. This whole process got rid of one of my more problematic vassals, so overall it was a good thing.

Once the Seljuks were dealt with, I didn't have any more problems. Wary of Crusades, I skipped Jerusalem and conquered Syria, Egypt, Abyssinia, Africa, and Arabia instead. Eventually, the Byzantines ended up with Jerusalem. When I chose to take it from them, it was pathetically easy. Since the Greeks had to march through Syria to get to me, I sieged their provinces to 100% before they could even mount a defense.

This game is pretty much over for me, but it was loads of fun. I have a dynasty score of , house prestige of 1219, and only 57 living members of my dynasty despite ruling 6 different kingdoms. The low number of living members probably has a lot to do with the massive amount of wincest my cousin rulers are having with each other. :-O
 

Wakizashi

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I'm having around 65% of the de jure Persian Empire now, meaning I still have to capture 11 provinces. Problem is there that this means i have to take on the Abbasids if I want those extra territories, which is quite a daunting task. I'm hoping for a civil war tearing them apart soon, since otherwise it will be neigh impossible, I'm afraid.
 

Chyll

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This:

Assuming you have those 10 year truces with Saffarids, you could try grabbing some bits of the steppes for yourself since Cumania and others should be much easier to handle than Muslims. Perhaps even do a "Caspian circle".

I finally got my own stable game going, and the key was the amount of pure force I can leverage from the holdings wraping north of the Caspian. The tengri are on the run, and I can now field the second largest number of levies. Granted, that is a third the size of the great Islamic power... but my confidence level is up.

Now, to just keep whittling away at Islamists that revolt and prepare to weather the Seljuks...
 

Theddude

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Attacking the Abbasids isn't too bad if they're distracted when you rush Tigris. It's best if there's an Emir in Tigris who revolts, then you can rush him instead of having to fight the Abbassids directly. Take Tigris and they're pretty much screwed, Baghdad is the nail in the coffin. Those two Duchies make up such a huge part of their strength.
 

Damarrocarion

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I figure I put one last tip for Karen here :)

Many of the strategies seem to rely on luck and possibility of save/reload if things go bad. Of course, if you play with "no reloads policy" or in multiplayer and do not want to end up belly-up due to bad luck, here is a "Zoroastrian 10-year plan". It's a slow & steady approach but works very well in securing you a stable and effective kingdom without much risk and need of luck.

- Use your initial troops and holy war for satrapy of Khiva
- After winning the war, usurp title for satrapy of Khiva, make it your primary title and move your capital there
- Swear fealty to Shah of Khiva
- Declare de-jure war on count of Merv and make him your vassal. Shah and other muslims should not be able to interfere.
- Create satrapy of Bukhara, declare de-jure war on count of Bukhara and make him your vassal. Occasionally count of Herat joins the fight on Bukharas side.

Both wars might have issues, mainly in count of Merv kicking the bucket before producing male heir and Shah creating satrapy of Bukhara to stop your de-jure war but it is not a catastrophe really.

At this stage you should now have "united Khiva" which is immune to holy war from Saffarids due to ruler being muslim, too strong for Yagubids to holy war against and with a monarch who is effectively hostage to a Vandad Karen (Karen holding 10 provinces while Shah only has 3). Start stockpiling money for the future.

- When your ten-year truce with Shah ends (or you murder the one you had truce with), demand crown for yourself via factions or fabricate claim. Due to your overwhelming power, Shah will give in to other demands (such as lower crown authority) but will not give up his crown without a fight.
- Thrash the Shah and his 3 provinces. Usurp the crown and grant satrapy of Bukhara to your initial vassal, count of Kara-kum
- Demand conversion from now imprisoned ex-Shah.
- Ex-Shah will hate your guts but is too weak to do anything about it. In addition his whole family will turn to Zoroaster and he starts converting his remaining vassals in Samarkand too.

So there you go, strong and stable Khiva with you holding satrapys of Merv and Khiva and crown of Khiva. Road to Persia is open (though you probably want to snag Turkestan first).

Saffarids generally try get Gurgan after they have attacked Tabaristan unless Shah of Khiva goes for it first (he usually, does, which gives you more provinces later). With your stockpiled money and free troops, Khiva should be able to defeat Saffarids. Make sure you chase their event troops down and kill them to last man and their power will be in regards to future wars.

During the 10 year period (assassination plots usually don't get enough power) there are still lots of things you can do, such as fabricating claims on Turkestan and to Saffarid held areas and you can afford to spend some money to upgrade your holdings in Khiva while waiting for truce to end. You can even retain Bukhara and give up Merv (Bukhrara being better holding) if you manage to assassinate the count of Kara-kum before he marries and produces an heir.
 
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