Zoroastrian strategies

[eternalsteelfan]

Take the Shite (or Shia?) neighbor in a holy war off the bat, all the other muslims are Sunni and will not help. After that it's a lot of luck, perfectly timed wars, and luring Abbasid doomstacks throughout your territory until they attrition down and can be picked off. The more chaos is in the Abbasid or whatever massive blob forms, the better for you. You will probably need to form either Khiva or Persia to survive an invasion, Khiva seems to be the easiest.

Playing as Karen that is. And you need to play near-perfect, so reload. Hold on to those bonus troops as long as you can, they don't reinforce.

 

[nrsw2w3]

Personally what I did was take the northern part of my neighbor in a holy war, and then holy war the pagans to the north, sometimes going back to khiva for holy wars when the other muslim states were fighting each other. The sammorids I believe were blobbing pretty badly, and were sharing a border with the caliph. I waited til the caliph and them were at war with the byzantines, and holy warred them, and even though I had about five thousand less troops the mountains, and the horse archer retinues allowed me to destroy their armies and win the holy war, and then each war after that became more easy, so by the time I shared a border with the caliph with the troops from the pagan lands I controlled, and the recently holy warred areas I had more troops than the caliph

 

[unmerged(45754)]

What I did was, in the first year - swear fealty to Khiva, demand elective monarchy, and then demand that the Sultan abadicate.

All of that happened.

I then immediately declared war on the Saffarids, while they were at war with the other Emirate.

I beat them, took over most of their land - so within the first 4-5 years, I had tripled my size.

After that, it was fairly easy - I just picked bits and pieces up of the other emirates, and waited for the Abbasids to have decadence issues. They declared war on me a few times, but I just let them exhaust their troops and killed them in big battles.

I'm now the Persian Empire, I've got everywhere from the Cumans (Seljuks now, whom I just defeated in a war), all the way to the med. coast. I've also beaten the Byzantines once and now the Abbasids two or three times.

My next heir is the son of my ruler, the Sayoshant, as well as a Mirza (I captured an Abbasid princess and turned her into a concubine) - so he has the Mirza trait too, which is funny.

 

[Isaios]

What I did was, in the first year - swear fealty to Khiva, demand elective monarchy, and then demand that the Sultan abadicate.

You could also use the Designer to flip the boss there Zoroastrian from the get-go, he doesn't have enough vassals for that to explode.

Could you swear fealty to the guy holding the extreme east of Persia? The Karen starting Duchy is de Jure Persia after all.

so he has the Mirza trait too, which is funny.

Entire Off-Topic, but what the hell: I've had this as a hobby for a while... As the King of Jerusalem (by starting in 1099) I arranged for my daughter to marry a Fatimid Prince. Took some doing, but my third ruler was a Patrilinear descendant of the Prophet, which was awesome. Now I'll have to see if I can't help the Saviour of the World make Persia so that I can get that too. Just in case there're any Zoroastrian vassals around

 

[Lord Finnish]

Playing Karen is ridiculously easy. Swear fealty to Khiva, press elective, then press yourself as king, holy war the duchy north of you in Cumania, then take the southeasternmost duchy in Persia in holy war, and you are all set for a glorious future.

 

[Wakizashi]

Playing Karen is ridiculously easy. Swear fealty to Khiva, press elective, then press yourself as king, holy war the duchy north of you in Cumania, then take the southeasternmost duchy in Persia in holy war, and you are all set for a glorious future.

Interestig. I may try that. But does that mean you also finish off the Shah of Khiva yourself?

 

[Aunel]

Playing Karen is ridiculously easy. Swear fealty to Khiva, press elective, then press yourself as king, holy war the duchy north of you in Cumania, then take the southeasternmost duchy in Persia in holy war, and you are all set for a glorious future.

I tried that, but the Shah didn't abdicate without a fight, even though he was in a war himself with the Turkestan guys and the Cumans as their allies, invading Khiva when I tried pressing. It turned into a three-way war, which I won with my event troops and was helped by Zoroastrian peasants rising up and claiming two counties as well.

After that, the Cumans decided it would be fun to invade Turkestan. I swooped in and took it from under their noses. Meanwhile, I had forced the former Shah of Khiva to turn Zoroastrian. After that, I could get the two rebel counties to swear fealty (they still had their event troops, one still does to this day) and unite Khiva.

After that I simply started holy warring to the south. The Saffarids had taken over Persia entirely, but I managed to beat them while they were caught up in some other war. When I already controlled nearly 51% of Persia, they eventually they got invaded by the Caliph, who had been taking over Asia Minor, but revolted nearly directly afterwards, so I could take them. The Saffarids are now the rebellious dukes of Azerbajan.

The Caliph tried invading Persia after that several times, but because I had placed priests in nearly every county and had Church taxes at max, I had enough money for enough mercenaries, who, combined with my cultural retinues and mountain terrain, were more than enough to keep off the numerically superiour force when I was still weaker.

The Seljuks invaded at some point, but I managed to drive them off fairly easily when they split up their troops, and the Cumans to the north have been eternally wracked by rebellions and wars.

I suppose it does come down to luck a lot, but it also comes down a lot to tactical planning. In most wars I fought, losing a single important battle due to error would mean losing the entire war, and all defensive wars were over entire kingdoms. I don't know if I would have recovered from that.

 

[Zankor]

I hear a lot of strategies about swearing fealty to muslim rulers and making them use elective monarchy... isn't that not even a normal succession option as a muslim? This feels like it is not an intended thing you are supposed to be able to do.

 

[Wakizashi]

I succeeded in the Khiva elective monarchy thing. Now I just have to manage those damn Muslim counts. Fortunately the former Shah of Khiva (who I imprisoned after he rebelled against me) just converted to Zoroastrianism.

 

[Lord Finnish]

I tried that, but the Shah didn't abdicate without a fight, even though he was in a war himself with the Turkestan guys and the Cumans as their allies, invading Khiva when I tried pressing. It turned into a three-way war, which I won with my event troops and was helped by Zoroastrian peasants rising up and claiming two counties as well.

After that, the Cumans decided it would be fun to invade Turkestan. I swooped in and took it from under their noses. Meanwhile, I had forced the former Shah of Khiva to turn Zoroastrian. After that, I could get the two rebel counties to swear fealty (they still had their event troops, one still does to this day) and unite Khiva.

After that I simply started holy warring to the south. The Saffarids had taken over Persia entirely, but I managed to beat them while they were caught up in some other war. When I already controlled nearly 51% of Persia, they eventually they got invaded by the Caliph, who had been taking over Asia Minor, but revolted nearly directly afterwards, so I could take them. The Saffarids are now the rebellious dukes of Azerbajan.

The Caliph tried invading Persia after that several times, but because I had placed priests in nearly every county and had Church taxes at max, I had enough money for enough mercenaries, who, combined with my cultural retinues and mountain terrain, were more than enough to keep off the numerically superiour force when I was still weaker.

The Seljuks invaded at some point, but I managed to drive them off fairly easily when they split up their troops, and the Cumans to the north have been eternally wracked by rebellions and wars.

I suppose it does come down to luck a lot, but it also comes down a lot to tactical planning. In most wars I fought, losing a single important battle due to error would mean losing the entire war, and all defensive wars were over entire kingdoms. I don't know if I would have recovered from that.

Yes, it's mostly luck. For me the Sultan of Khiva gave in peacefully in both of my ultimatums because he was at war (if you just wait, he will end up in SOME war soon enough). If the dice favors you and you get 5k starting troops (I think they are randomized), the Sultan will give in because you have like 150% faction power.

I personally did not have problems conquering Persia. From day 1 I had my chancellor improving relations with the Caliph so he never attacked me. Instead I waited until he got to succession/decadence wars to get his land. Byzantines also spread all the way to Jerusalem, giving me some edge. Eventually, I got the exact borders of de-jure Persian Empire - I did have that one duchy in Cumania as I recommended but I lost it to Seljuks.

I succeeded in the Khiva elective monarchy thing. Now I just have to manage those damn Muslim counts. Fortunately the former Shah of Khiva (who I imprisoned after he rebelled against me) just converted to Zoroastrianism.

Yes, getting rid of the Sunni duke in Khiva, your ex-liege, will be extremely tricky. You will need one helluva bloody civil war for that. I admit that I ragequit a few times during mine.

 

[Uboa]

Submitting to Khiva and taking it over from inside seems kind of cheap. I felt it was much better to go on the offensive on Day 1 and use your free troops to stomp Khiva (and hire mercenaries if you can spare the gold), then slowly crawl around the Caspian, attack other small emirates, and getting the few independent Zoroastrians to submit to you. I noticed the Abbasids usually didn't get involved in holy wars when the target of my holy war wasn't bordering them. When they did get involved, it was just a matter of bringing them to the mountains and dogpiling on them if they tried to attack. Same strategy worked against Seljuk.

I did have a few lucky breaks in my game; First one was the Saffarids getting into a war with an adventurer's host which led to them losing one of their ducal-level titles. As soon as I saw that they were under attack, I went for Bukhara and usurped their other ducal title. Rest of the realm fell apart from there (they hadn't managed to form Persia yet, though they were close), and from there it was just pressing de jure claims on the counties bordering the Abbasids and holy wars for the counties that weren't on that border. Second lucky break was having two or three Zoroastrian peasant rebellions pop up in a few provinces. Once they usurped the county, all I had to do was ask them to join me and they would usually be glad to.

 

[Wakizashi]

So far, so good. The former Shah of Khiva has converted and even though he hates my guts, so far he seems to be harmless. Unfortunately he had two ducal titles, so I could only take one satrapy away from him without m vassals complaining (weird rule btw. He's a traitor, why can't I strip him off everthing and execute him afterwards?). So I let him remain Satrap of Samarkhand and took Khiva from him. Now the Sunni counts start converting to Zoroastrianism under the wise guidance of my appointed dukes. The Duchies to the south of the Caspian Sea are fragmenting like crazy and Zoroastrain provinces are declaring independence all over the place, only to swear fealty to me afterwards.

Right now, the Saffarids are the biggest threat. They have a max army size of like 9000, while the Abbasids are pretty much being destroyed by two internal conflicts about who gets to have the Arabian Empire at the same time.

 

[Baldwin XI]

I got lucky in my game as the Karen. (Isn't that one of the main features of stuff like this?) Right off the bat, the Khivans got hit with the Shiites starting the civil war for control of the country. After they bled each other sufficiently I DOW'd Khiva and took the whole kingdom. Around that time the Saffarids won the war against the other Muslim realm in Persia and were gearing up for an invasion of my lands. However, it was also at that time that the Abbasid Caliph launched a subjugation war against the Saffarids, and they were way too busy with them while I consolidated in Khiva and conquered the Turks around the Aral Sea. The back-and-forth between Saffarids and Abbasids continued for such a long time that I had no trouble nibbling away at the Saffarid and Abbasid lands (thanks to the independence wars by the different Persian Muslim duchy leagues after they were conquered by the Abbasids). It took about 60 years but I was able to form the Persian Shahdom, and another 20 to become the Saoshyant at the expense of the new Bahirid Caliphate that overthrew the Abbasids. Once you become the Saoshyant the world is basically your oyster; I was able to fight off both the Seljuk invasion as well as a huge Byzantine holy war right on its heels.

I'm at around 1010 AD right now, and expect to have Archaemenid Persia's borders (give or take a few provinces) by 1066.

 

[Steelbadger]

Another evening, another ignoble end for House Bavandid. This time at the hands of the Abbassid Caliph (I tried submitting to his rule this time).

I will do it. I will. House Bavandid will rise, and they will do it while remaining faithful to the Zoroastrian faith. Eventually. Perhaps.

 

[Wakizashi]

I didn't succeed in taking the Yagbuids (Turkic people to the north) yet though, since they constantly call the Cumans in for help, which is quite annoying. Also, there is a Kurdish Zoroastrian kingdom called Gilan that took over the Duchy of Armenia and is quite nice. But they refuse to vassalize to me because of cultural differences, the bastards.

The former Shah of Khiva is finally dead, fortunately. I plotted to take away one of his counties, and as I was hoping he rebelled. I then imprisonned him and stripped him of his last Satrap title. I was planning to let him stay in prison, but his former subject counts staged a rebellion against the newly appoint Satrap of Samarkand to have the imprisonned former Shah as their Satrap again. Let's say the war was over quickly since the claimant they supported was no more

 

[Kalderus]

I suppose you were lucky then. In my Karen game, which I stopped recently since I became the Saoshyant, the Abbasids subjugated Persia early on, so it was a much tougher uphill battle throughout. Thankfully, I was still able to do it without any reloading/ragequitting, but not without rage and a lot of screaming.

 

[Wakizashi]

I suppose you were lucky then. In my Karen game, which I stopped recently since I became the Saoshyant, the Abbasids subjugated Persia early on, so it was a much tougher uphill battle throughout. Thankfully, I was still able to do it without any reloading/ragequitting, but not without rage and a lot of screaming.

It looks like the Saffarids will end up as being more of a challenge then the Abbasids themselves. I'm just waiting and hoping they will get destroyed from the inside soon.

 

[riadach]

I, as the Karen satrap who acquired khiva through civil war, am currently educating the sunni samanid Satrap (I executed his father because of his continued attempts, from prison, to reinstall sunni satraps I had revoked after they rebelled). I'm a zealous zoroastrian, and his opinion of me is quite high. I'm just wondering when, if ever, I can expect him to embrace Ahura Mazda?

 

[DukeDayve]

I may have gotten lucky the one time I played them but I didn't find it so difficult. I saved literally all my money, never built any upgrades, because I knew those massive Muslim kingdoms to the south would eventually come after me. Immediately tried to blitz that Muslim faction to the right (forgot their names) and managed to take a couple of counties before they had a succesful Zoroastrian uprising and became allies.

Basically just blitz that Muslim country to the right of your starting position, take as many counties as you can, then hoard gold like a madman for when you badly need it. Imprison your vassals at any opportunity and ransom them, stuff like that. Then hire mercenaries and steal land from your neighbours. Same strategy as with any other country, really.

 

[pingupower]

I just started my campaign and holy wared Khiva. It was pretty straightforward and I won. now I have a ten year truce with them and more importantly the Saffavids south have taken an enormous chunk of land. I don't know how to continue:
- attacking the yagubids would bring me a bigger bad neighbour which I do not wand plus their territory is of no interest to me
- I can't fight any muslim right now since my neighbours are all bigger than me

What can I do?