Zero-Waste Protocols needs some love

[The5lacker]

So a lot of the core ME Civics are in need of some of the love the core Individualist empire Civics have gotten over the years, but I don't think any are as desperate as Zero-Waste Protocols, the Civic that... doesn't relate to wasted materials in any way, shape, or form. It just reduces the base Energy upkeep of pops, and by a comically small amount. Like, congrats, you functionally get +1 empire Energy per 10 pops. That's... a valuable Civic right there.

Expanding ZWP to *all* forms of Upkeep across your empire would be very handy, and actually useful. It'd let MEs field a higher proportion of Complex Drones, more ships, more starbases, and more developed worlds, without necessarily pushing them too hard in any one direction. It'd be a strong pick for the player who wants to build tall, and more importantly, would be a unique thing MEs can do as opposed to being "Environmentalist, but bad."

 

[Metallichydra]

It's crazy how bad it is when you think about it.
It does exactly the same as the trait "durable", which costs 1 point.
Lets compare it the two other civics that also does the same as a trait:

OTA updates: -20% size from pops, +25 edict fund, no unity cost from resettlement. This civic gives double the size reduction as the trait "streamlined protocols", which is a trait that costs 2 points!

Rapid replicators: +20% assembly speed, which is actually 5% more than the mass-produced trait, which costs 1 point. And mass produced is probably the best trait for robots.

 

[Stupid_Dragon]

It's crazy how bad it is when you think about it.
It does exactly the same as the trait "durable", which costs 1 point.
Lets compare it the two other civics that also does the same as a trait:

OTA updates: -20% size from pops, +25 edict fund, no unity cost from resettlement. This civic gives double the size reduction as the trait "streamlined protocols", which is a trait that costs 2 points!

Rapid replicators: +20% assembly speed, which is actually 5% more than the mass-produced trait, which costs 1 point. And mass produced is probably the best trait for robots.

It's better not to cross-reference things to machine traits because machine traits are a total balance whack as well. There's no way Durable and Mass-Produced are on equal ground, but the game considers them as such.

Zero-Waste Protocol is just bad objectively. At the start of the game it's around +3 extra energy, which is comically low.

 

[Pancakelord]

I kind of feel like just a flat upkeep modifier still isnt interesting enough for me to pick it -10% upkeep on everything is definitely going to have an effect, but with machine civics so few and far between I feel like it ought to do something more creative too. As a minimum imo it should get a variation of the Research / salvage debris policy from Scavangers.

Maybe a recycled ship mechanic would work? Like

• for every ship being built in parallel at a shipyard, you get either
  • +10% build speed (capping at 60%)
  • 5% of its total cost refunded to you at the end of construction (capping at 60%)

The idea being that where other empires discard bits most wouldn't use, your construction machines can rework them in to something useful.​

Its an overly gimmicky way of saying -X% ship cost or build speed, when averaged, but it would at least be different to anything else.​

It could get a combat modifier, alternatively.

• At the end of combat ships will heal hull and armor equal to a "value" from debris from the battle (based on the ships lost from both sides combined).
  • If a fleet has recently processed some debris, it gets an extra 50% armor hardening until it leaves the system (they've strapped scrap to the outside of the hull ... it falls off when going to hyperspace/through a gateway, idk).
• Ship refit speeds are increased (though they're so fast as is, im not sure this would do much without base refit speeds being lengthened).

That would give zero waste machine ships more resistance to attrition, too.​

 

[The5lacker]

I kind of feel like just a flat upkeep modifier still isnt interesting enough for me to pick it -10% upkeep on everything is definitely going to have an effect, but with machine civics so few and far between I feel like it ought to do something more creative too. As a minimum imo it should get a variation of the Research / salvage debris policy from Scavangers.

Maybe a recycled ship mechanic would work? Like

• for every ship being built in parallel at a shipyard, you get either
  • +10% build speed (capping at 60%)
  • 5% of its total cost refunded to you at the end of construction (capping at 60%)

The idea being that where other empires discard bits most wouldn't use, your construction machines can rework them in to something useful.​

Its an overly gimmicky way of saying -X% ship cost or build speed, when averaged, but it would at least be different to anything else.​

It could get a combat modifier, alternatively.

• At the end of combat ships will heal hull and armor equal to a "value" from debris from the battle (based on the ships lost from both sides combined).
  • If a fleet has recently processed some debris, it gets an extra 50% armor hardening until it leaves the system (they've strapped scrap to the outside of the hull ... it falls off when going to hyperspace/through a gateway, idk).
• Ship refit speeds are increased (though they're so fast as is, im not sure this would do much without base refit speeds being lengthened).

That would give zero waste machine ships more resistance to attrition, too.​

I feel like you could just... give MEs Salvager and not worry about over-complicating things. Civic-complexity-creep is a thing at the moment.