Yugoslavia desperately needs a rework

[bakka14]

Yugoslavia can't even hold a candle to all the effort that was put in Romania, Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Yugoslavia has absolutely no interactions with her neighbors. Claiming Bulgaria just does that: gives claims, not war goals. I never picked that focus because of the claims, I just picked it for the manpower focus. Yugoslavia's theme is basically: Try to solve nationalist issues and pray that someone comes to save you. Picking the communist path and joining the Comintern is the only way to survive. Creating Worker's Congress is a death sentence, since you will never be able to add Bulgaria or Albania. Bulgaria will also even flip to Axis through Italian focus tree, and Albania is just a useless piece of land that will be annexed by Italy regardless if they're in your faction. Yugoslavia was meant to not be played, or just to be eaten by her neighbors. Romania has a focus to conquer or split them, can also call them to crush Hungary and create a faction. Hungary can demand Yugoslav lands or just get war goals on Yugoslavia. Czechoslovakia can recreate the Little Entente and call in Yugoslavia, with decent bonuses for the faction. Yugoslavia has none of that. It's just join Axis, Comintern or Allies, but anything that starts with A will get you killed most likely. Yugoslavia hinders the DLC a lot, like a single rotten apple in a barrel of good ones. A shame though, the country has so much potential. Too bad that the Yugoslav Focus Tree Mod will never get updated. It's also bad, but still quite better than the one we have. Lets also not forget the missing troop voiceover since people at Paradox didn't do their research and found out that the main language of Yugoslavia and its military staff was Serbo-Croatian, a language used by Bosnians, Serbs, Croatians and Montenegrins. The whole Yugoslavia rework in DoD was a total miss, the poorest done country in the whole Country Pack. And even under those conditions, the devs didn't find time to add most of the leader portraits. Lazy, stupid, and disappointing.

 

[billcorr]

Lazy, stupid, and disappointing.

Congrats on your first post.

Any thoughts about perhaps editing your introduction of yourself to the Paradox community?

Noted, you are disappointed and trying to get the developers to change Yugoslavia.

But that is no excuse for denigrating others.

Looking forward to more posts...posts that make the game better.

 

[bakka14]

Congrats on your first post.

Any thoughts about perhaps editing your introduction of yourself to the Paradox community?

Noted, you are disappointed and trying to get the developers to change Yugoslavia.

But that is no excuse for denigrating others.

Looking forward to more posts...posts that make the game better.

You’re right, I took it a bit too far by insulting the devs even after all the work they’ve put into this game, but I only really created this account to talk about Yugoslavia’s miss in Death or Dishonor. I found that barely anyone was talking about recently so I wanted to bring up the topic again.

 

[Paul.Ketcham]

Honestly, the most glaring problems in Yugoslavia have to do with its inability to work outside of the historic playthrough. Allying with Yugoslavia as anyone besides Germany or Britain can lead to them finishing their focus tree and allying with one of those two powers, even during a war (and even including those two powers; monarchist Germany will likely lose Yugoslavia to Britain as it can't ally with nonaligned Germany via focus). The historic focus tree also lacks any government change options, the partisans and Chetniks are not even mentioned (nor is any resistance mechanic present, resulting in a historic Yugoslavia never getting Tito as a leader). Then there is the simple case that its just somewhat boring.

If nothing else, an updated Yugoslav focus tree should move its faction joining decisions into a separate tree from its left tree (the one that fixes all of your internal problems) and should be a different tree entirely for gaining external political support. It should also look into more than just fascist Germany or democratic Britain, with options to join at-minimum the Little Entente (either French or Balkan-led) and any factions led by Germany, Britain, France, or Italy. Then the leftmost tree can instead lead to more national improvements once you have fixed the internal problems, allowing your nation to replace its starting debuffs potentially with bonuses (if generous) or even cores (if you go full-nationalist mode), which could easily include Albania and Greek Macedonia and Thrace.

Preferably, however, some sort of resistance mechanic should go along with the nation that determines which groups receive the greatest support and the resulting impacts on the nation's ideology (as well as actual resistance and the possibility of a full-scale revolt); the partisans (communist), Chetniks (either pro-democratic or pro-nonaligned), and Ustasha (pro-fascist) could all exist as different factions to support or oppose (preferably with the occupying nation determining which is the collaborating group and which two are hostile, i.e. ustasha being pro-Axis), and decisions to grow a potential resistance army via collaboration and the consequences therein (a common Balkan tactic of working with someone to get weapons and troops in key positions, then stab them in the back and revolt). Not entirely sure how this would be done, but its at least an idea.

 

[bakka14]

Honestly, the most glaring problems in Yugoslavia have to do with its inability to work outside of the historic playthrough. Allying with Yugoslavia as anyone besides Germany or Britain can lead to them finishing their focus tree and allying with one of those two powers, even during a war (and even including those two powers; monarchist Germany will likely lose Yugoslavia to Britain as it can't ally with nonaligned Germany via focus). The historic focus tree also lacks any government change options, the partisans and Chetniks are not even mentioned (nor is any resistance mechanic present, resulting in a historic Yugoslavia never getting Tito as a leader). Then there is the simple case that its just somewhat boring.

If nothing else, an updated Yugoslav focus tree should move its faction joining decisions into a separate tree from its left tree (the one that fixes all of your internal problems) and should be a different tree entirely for gaining external political support. It should also look into more than just fascist Germany or democratic Britain, with options to join at-minimum the Little Entente (either French or Balkan-led) and any factions led by Germany, Britain, France, or Italy. Then the leftmost tree can instead lead to more national improvements once you have fixed the internal problems, allowing your nation to replace its starting debuffs potentially with bonuses (if generous) or even cores (if you go full-nationalist mode), which could easily include Albania and Greek Macedonia and Thrace.

Preferably, however, some sort of resistance mechanic should go along with the nation that determines which groups receive the greatest support and the resulting impacts on the nation's ideology (as well as actual resistance and the possibility of a full-scale revolt); the partisans (communist), Chetniks (either pro-democratic or pro-nonaligned), and Ustasha (pro-fascist) could all exist as different factions to support or oppose (preferably with the occupying nation determining which is the collaborating group and which two are hostile, i.e. ustasha being pro-Axis), and decisions to grow a potential resistance army via collaboration and the consequences therein (a common Balkan tactic of working with someone to get weapons and troops in key positions, then stab them in the back and revolt). Not entirely sure how this would be done, but its at least an idea.

Personally, a problem I’ve always faced with Yugoslavia’s focus tree is how much it restricts you. You’re being forced to either join one of the factions or you can create your own but that’s mostly useless because Bulgaria and Albania will never join. A couple suggestions I’ve had were; add another focus branch that’s called something like “Yugoslavia First” where the player can get some decent bonuses instead of joining any factions, add more focused that let the player choose between which ideology they want, for example there could be a focus called “Yugoslav Fascism” which would boost fascism because it lacks that in the original focus tree, add war goal focuses against neighboring countries, add focuses that would let you ally some neighboring counties, get rid of the pan Slavic workers congress and replace with a faction that’ll let you invite neighboring countries similar to the little entente, add voice lines and I know this part is pretty controversial but the main language of the Yugoslavia military was Serbo-Croatian but if that’s not possible then paradox could add voices for each individual country in Yugoslavia at the time and add a event that lets you choose which country voice lines you want, and lastly this one is a bit of a nitpick but paradox should consider adding tank sprites and fixing the current infantry sprite they have because the Yugoslav uniform was originally green, not grey.

 

[kettyo]

paradox could add voices for each individual country in Yugoslavia at the time and add a event that lets you choose which country voice lines you want,

Doesn't worth the effort for Yugoslavia. Just go with Belgrade dialect as most of the government and high command was from there.

 

[kettyo]

Allying with Yugoslavia as anyone besides Germany or Britain can lead to them finishing their focus tree and allying with one of those two powers, even during a war (and even including those two powers; monarchist Germany will likely lose Yugoslavia to Britain as it can't ally with nonaligned Germany via focus)

That's really easily can be corrected though.

First of all just forbid faction joining focuses in case Yugo is already in faction.

That's just on oversight long avoided correction.

Also lift Albania and Bulgaria allying requirement that they are communist but rather the alliance gives them a drift towards communism. Also Italy's focus for annexing Albania should give a wargoal if Albania is in Yugo's faction, resulting in an interesting early Italian-Yugoslav war.

This should have been fixed very quickly.

What is really missing there is the ability to join Italy's faction if it forms (either Roman or Pact of Rome) as Italy had better relations with Italy than with Germany.

 

[kettyo]

I have checked the Yugo national focus file and it's now corrected so Yugo can't join Allies/Axis/Comintern if they are already in a faction. It's funny but they can still form their own faction if they are in another one so watch out if they are on the communist path, they'll go separatist

Moreover it's quite well adjusted now that they can also join any other fascist/democratic/communist alliance if the default ones are not available.

So only problem i really see now is the invite Albania/Bulgaria focuses as those make no sense, Yugo can't ever get them in.

 

[RAID186]

You’re right, I took it a bit too far by insulting the devs

Nah not really, this DLC in particular was painfully half-assed sadly. Hands down the worst work they've done, and they never even looked at fixing/improving it.

 

[Yanotoshi]

Like Albania, Yugoslavia is one of the artifical nations in the western balkans. The entire region suffered from the Austrian-Ottoman conflict for more then 300 years. While Romania and Bulgaria contain a core of ethnic citizens, Hungary lost in Trianon treaty a lot of core territory with significant numbers of Hungarians living there.

To create an exciting focus tree the devs really need to create a complete alternative historic idea olf the balkans.

 

[kettyo]

Nah not really, this DLC in particular was painfully half-assed sadly. Hands down the worst work they've done, and they never even looked at fixing/improving it.

It depends. The event chains are generally very good.

 

[Dlin369]

I think Yugoslavia is the weakest of the bunch in DoD - this is coming from a guy who loved all the other trees. Behind India I think Yugoslavia is in deepest need of a rework/retooling since Yugoslavia (unlike, say New Zealand) has a lot it can do in it's position.

It sits between Italy and its' ambitions in the Balkans while also playing a strategic rival to Hungary and an erstwhile ally to the Little Entente. It's also able to join both Axis and Allies in a plausible manner, while ultimately ended up become a Communist (but not Moscow-aligned) state after the war. Foreign policy-wise it should have a decent amount of interactions with France, Germany and Italy - ideally with focuses like "align-Yugoslavia" opening up some decisions to influence Yugoslavia's politics.

The internal politics of Yugoslavia also would be interesting, but I think in the grand scheme of things I'd be most satisfied with Yugoslavia getting some improvements to foreign policy if they aren't willing to invest in a full redo. Ideally to match Italy's ultimate revamp. Maybe a small tree to reflect communist partisans taking over during the war and placing Tito into power. That wouldn't require building the tree from scratch, but just changing the foreign policy branch

 

[Limwris]

I like to play with Yugoslavia. I consider strong when allying with Axis. Generally I do Hungary as puppet around 1939, give good boost for manpower and industry. After use "Prepare collaboration government", invading Bulgaria and Greece. By the way, focus tree against Greece give manpower by do a core there. Around 1942, my industry is superior to Italy.

 

[Mirais]

I agree that despite how long the game is there seems to be very little work done on countries not part of the major scheme. And I'm not saying Yugoslavia is not part of the major scheme, bc it was very relevant to the area.