He does, pretty sure he mentioned he moved up from QA to a Junior Design role?
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Youtubers got their copies! HYPE!
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While the fundamental argument is true, I feel your second point is a non-sequitur. I don't know how it where you're from, but there's levels to professional sports. Let's take gridiron football, or American football, or handegg as some people call it. There are tiers to the sport and each offers different entertainment. You have high-school games, college games and professional games. While it's not uncommon to care about high school football, it's not a source of entertainment for many people. College and the NFL gets the most love. Why is this?
People have pride for their school. Maybe they went to it, or their loved one / friend is an alumni there. Or, for the NFL, they simply love the tradition of the team or they live in the state and feel bound to like them. In my case, I like the Colts because they play in my city and their history as been in-twined in my childhood. I have a stake in their success and I enjoy it very much. But most of all, it's fun to watch the game played at a professional level. Look at this play, for example. I could never dream of doing that without years of intense training. It's fun to watch professionals do athletic things.
However, youtube streamers are just normal people who attract a following through production value or wit. I could do the same exact thing they're doing and probably have more fun at it too. I think it's utterly unfair to give them copies early, and it's humiliating to be spoken down to like you're doing. I value everything your team does and these youtubers do, and their success is through hard work. I'm not trying to take away or attack anyone, but you can't shrug off our complaints with that swiss cheese argument you have there.
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I'm not sure, I even understand, what you mean...
I think Super Bunnyhop (yeah, nevermind the silly name) had a bit on Civ and how it portraits culture, but I don't remember in what video that was and I don't think he will pick up Stellaris.
Explanation here (spoilered because long):
About two years ago I was talking to an academic in a pub. I asked her what she was studying, and she said that it was about interpretations of T.S. Eliot's poem The Waste Land. Apparently there is an entire field of full-time professionals who study Eliot poetry for a living. This is awesome, because The Waste Land is probably my favourite poem ever. I asked her for book recommendations and got a whole bunch; when I read them they were all about the deep meaning of the poem and what it means about our culture as interpreted through the filter of various schools of thought. I really enjoyed reading their thoughts on what my favourite poem meant and the connections that they drew within it, and even more enjoyed going back to the poem afterwards and experiencing it with the deeper appreciation that the critique gave me.
For example, there's a bit in The Waste Land where Eliot talks about a long, desperate journey through the mountains:
I grew up in a churchgoing household, so to me this is crucifixon imagery. However, I didn't understand (until I read the books) that this is also a profoundly Buddhist passage about the discovery of the futility of worldly things. It's also a passage which resonates with the First World War scenes of devastation earlier in The Waste Land. It also uses the symbols of water and rotten teeth which are used earlier in the poem. It ties into the Tarot lore of the poem, and the Classical allusions, and the militarism allusions, and so on. I missed this stuff entirely until it was pointed out to me, and so my enjoyment is much richer for it now that I can see it.
I like video games, and I want this sort of insight for video games, because the medium has grown up and is more than just distractions for children. I don't want it to be done by literature folks though: I want it done by video games folk, people who understand the language of video games and will spot the references and influences in the same way that literature people can do with literature. I think - I hope - that this sort of thing can come out of the LP scene.
For example, there's a bit in The Waste Land where Eliot talks about a long, desperate journey through the mountains:
I grew up in a churchgoing household, so to me this is crucifixon imagery. However, I didn't understand (until I read the books) that this is also a profoundly Buddhist passage about the discovery of the futility of worldly things. It's also a passage which resonates with the First World War scenes of devastation earlier in The Waste Land. It also uses the symbols of water and rotten teeth which are used earlier in the poem. It ties into the Tarot lore of the poem, and the Classical allusions, and the militarism allusions, and so on. I missed this stuff entirely until it was pointed out to me, and so my enjoyment is much richer for it now that I can see it.
I like video games, and I want this sort of insight for video games, because the medium has grown up and is more than just distractions for children. I don't want it to be done by literature folks though: I want it done by video games folk, people who understand the language of video games and will spot the references and influences in the same way that literature people can do with literature. I think - I hope - that this sort of thing can come out of the LP scene.
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I don't really get you argument. Millions of people love watching youtubers/streamers play games.
That's a fact whether you understand it or not.
As a business you have to be pretty dumb not to take advantage of that free promotion for your product.
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Well, Super Bunnyhop "might" go a little bit in that direction (depending on the video and/or game he is talking about), but I'm not sure you can do THAT much about Stellaris in this way, since it hasn't a fixed story and the player can play whatever society he wants.
Then do it...
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If you do not believe there are similar tiers of skill, talent and flavor to youtubing/streaming and that this doesn't influence their success, then you're far more ignorant of it than you accuse me of being in regards to sports. Not to mention that you're assuming everyone watches sports for the exact same reason you do, which is quite an arrogant assumption.
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I can't remember seeing a single singpleplayer Ck2 clip from Quill.
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Is that what you gathered from my post? You read it, and thought, "my interest is being under attack"?
I do not give a flying freak if you, your mother or your girlfriend watches youtube videos about a game. I respect your choice to do so, and I respect them appealing to people like you who do watch it. I can certainly see the appeal, although it's not my cup of tea. I made a few points and instead of actually refuting one, you tried to attack your idea of my argument as one. That isn't going to work with me.
This is being compared to watching professional sports, which is not the same at all. If it was, Quill18 would have played video games through high school, then got drafted by a video game coach in college. He balanced studies and played video games on the side for an audience that was usually televised. Then he was good enough to get picked by another person for a professional team where there are TONS of fans and every game is televised. If that were the case, I wouldn't be posting here.
That isn't the case.
He is a normal dude with a normal life, except he likes to stream video games and people like to watch him. Awesome. But, not the same as what Mr. Wiz was trying to pass off.
Oh, yeah? I'm sure there's something that makes them appealing that I can't see, but that's pretty subjective and personal. I also am pretty sure I said that it wasn't easy to do, but not as hard as throwing a football in a spiral 70 feet with precision that another man may catch it, and have room to maneuver. Am I wrong?
Another weak argument. Not even going to try to refute this, but I can go all day.
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Well all those are over two years old so saying that he play CK2 is not really correct, played is closer to the truth.
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You are wrong.
High level eSports requires incredible amounts of mental and physical toughness - it may not require much physical strength, but it requires better reaction time and a hell of a lot more complex analytics. And with YouTube, you have to demonstrate a wide range of abilities because you have to play, commentate, entertain, and often edit in order to create your product.
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I really don't get why you are so worked up over that, but if you just want to argue about how accurate a rather vague metaphor made by Whiz is then be my guest.
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Honestly I'm not sure why there is even a discussion here.
Youtubers get watched or don't depending on how the viewers like what they are seeing. They don't cheat with their view numbers, they just get them. Why people are watching them doesn't really matter, specially not for PDX when they consider whom they are giving codes.
BTW: I actually WANT people to have earlier codes so I can see the game before I buy it. Not wanting them to have early keys is not only very petty, it is actually HARMING yourself because you would lose a good way of getting an early look at a game, potentially preventing you from buying a stinker.
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He's gotta have at least 70 vids out covering 4 or 5 different single player campaigns.
Looking forward to his Stellaris vids.
Edit: He's definitely player within the last year. Given the age of the game I'd say he actively plays it.
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As I've said before, if you want an opportunity to get a key early for streaming or youtubing the you need to show us that you're worth it. That can either be by having a large enough audience, or doing something cool with one of our games. There are some "smaller" Youtubers/Streamers that get access because we like them.
I am pretty sure I can make Jake mess up too if I put my mind to it.
Once you're doing something for a living, you no longer fall into "normal people doing a thing" you're now a professional. The "I could do the same thing" argument doesn't really hold any water as you are clearly not doing the same thing. Meat-Sports and e-sports and just two sides of the same coin, it's people playing a game for the entertainment of others.
I am pretty sure I can make Jake mess up too if I put my mind to it.
Once you're doing something for a living, you no longer fall into "normal people doing a thing" you're now a professional. The "I could do the same thing" argument doesn't really hold any water as you are clearly not doing the same thing. Meat-Sports and e-sports and just two sides of the same coin, it's people playing a game for the entertainment of others.
Considering the fact that there are more people able to throw a football in a spiral 70 feet with precision than there are people playing Stellaris early, yes, yes you are wrong.
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I'm sorry but you don't watch sport for their skill, if you did you'd be watching people with skills that actually matters like engineers, or doctors, or even diplomats, not some guy throwing around an inflated peice of leather. That skill only matters because it's actually more entertaining than watching meaningful skills.
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The fact that professional sports has a higher threshold of technical skill than streaming does not mean that it is some sacred activity that cannot be analogous to another form of entertainment. It honestly just reads as though you're deeply offended that those unfairly preferentially treated youtubers are being compared to something that you yourself enjoy. Would you be equally offended if the comparison was between sports and acting, which also doesn't require you to be drafted out of high school? Lay off the tantrum already.
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On the internet, in the middle of a hype, with 9 days to go for a new game that everyone on this forum is dying to play? I do not think that is possible.
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