Your proposal for improving HoI Economy

[Hoi Neuling]

I suggest you look at the big Mods for Hoi 4 which introduced Coal. As player you get more realism for the Economy and see no big difference in the Gameplay.

The only difference is that you have to reduce production on some Industry-Parts until you have build up the Streets (like for the other integrated Ressources) to Maximum and upgrade the Resource-Facilation with the R & D-Techs (like for the other integrated Ressources).

The biggest difference is for the Synthitisation-Raffs. There you need it as Ressource to make Fuel. Here the Synth- R & D-Parts makes the Fuel better and if I have that correctly in Mind reduce the Main-Ressource too.

The best Mod for that is the Ultra Historical, which don´t change the normal Gameplay but integrate missing Features and Decissions. I as player found it very interessting to play the Features and Decissions, which are linked to the Economy and Focusses. I suggest the Devs and Moderators look at it and talk to the Modding-Team.

 

[Andreu]

This one has me torn.

On the one hand, there is something inherently unrealistic about free production. All CiC output is, essentially, free production (consumes no resources and doesn't compete with MiC/NiC production for anything except free building slots), as is the output of Synth plants.

On the other hand, to fix the above one has to expand the game with extra resources in order to make said competition viable. You can get away with existing resources for letting CiC churn out new buildings (like steel) so it does compete for resources with other production lines. But for synths, the only viable resource that makes sense as an input is coal. And that opens a can of worms. Adding coal by itself is not hard to do, but for coal to become a limiting factor for a nation it has to have more uses than an input for synth plants. For example as a new energy input to make all factories (including CiC's) operate.

This all adds to the complexity of the economic model. And here is my doubt. At it's core, hoi4 is about fighting a (world) war. It's not an economic simulator.

I've actually played a war game like that for years (Victory! The Battle for Europe). It has the coal, and the steel, and aluminium, and the oil, and the fuel we have in hoi4. It even has dedicated factories for churning out fuel, supplies and ammunition (FUEL, GEN and MUN plants). Oil not converted into fuel can be used as a substitute for coal as a source of energy to operate the factories. It has the NiC's, and the MiC's and the CiC's, and the (limited) amount of building slots. The main difference with hoi4 is that it's turn based, play by e-mail.

And you know what? When I, as a player, plan my moves for the next turn (and remember, as hoi4 it's a war game), I'm spending like 80% of my time managing my economy. Which is, frankly, a bit too much for a game that's supposed to be all about warfare.

Interesting reflection, which does not have a single answer.

HoI has to stay HoI and Victoria, Victoria. But, at the same time, war and logistics (resources, economy, planning...) have been and will always be closely linked concepts. In fact, the economy motivates operations and entire wars.

 

[Sbrubbles]

I would rather factory conversion play an overall bigger role compared to construction.

Also, I love the economic fatigue system in the WA mod. The longer you stay at high levels of mobilization, the worse maluses you get, meaning you have a long term limit to your warmongering and have to take steps to mitigate this economic fatigue

 

[geneticsjms]

Interesting reflection, which does not have a single answer.

HoI has to stay HoI and Victoria, Victoria. But, at the same time, war and logistics (resources, economy, planning...) have been and will always be closely linked concepts. In fact, the economy motivates operations and entire wars.

I agree, thats why I dont think introducing money, or monetized trade makes sense. However factory development/conversion makes sense to me as in the prewar buildup we had Axis on a building spree along with the soviets. After the war kicks off we had allies go all in on conversion and new construction like Willow Run plant. It also presents interesting choices during the boring pre-war buildup as those factory development choices determine your game strategy.

This series has been amazing on learning about the factories and how the participated. I would love the ability to really target military production in particular hitting a specific type of production like uboat or aircraft and defend against that. It adds just enough economic depth without turning into a micromanage swamp like vicky.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

What you need on Resources are: Aluminum, Chromium, Oil, Rubber and Wolfram (which are integrated since the Basegame) and Coal (to make the Synth. Raffs as well as Industry more realistic).

More Resources for the Economy you don´t need. The remaining Ressources you generate automaticaly (Political Power, Military Points Power, Experiance).

The remaining Economy belongs like it is already with Street- and Railroad-Upgrades, Focusses as well as R & D-Advancements. And how good the Coal as Energy-Part can be used to make the Industry productive.

Oh that would have completely forgotten: More Military-Industrial Enterprises (an cool Mod with more Stuff for Civilian and Military Industry Options)

 

[Andreu]

What you need on Resources are: Aluminum, Chromium, Oil, Rubber and Wolfram (which are integrated since the Basegame) and Coal (to make the Synth. Raffs as well as Industry more realistic).

More Resources for the Economy you don´t need. The remaining Ressources you generate automaticaly (Political Power, Military Points Power, Experiance).

The remaining Economy belongs like it is already with Street- and Railroad-Upgrades, Focusses as well as R & D-Advancements. And how good the Coal as Energy-Part can be used to make the Industry productive.

Oh that would have completely forgotten: More Military-Industrial Enterprises (an cool Mod with more Stuff for Civilian and Military Industry Options)

What about a "generic resource" that represents basic needs for troops?

 

[Hoi Neuling]

What about a "generic resource" that represents basic needs for troops?

You mean Food, Drinks, Ammo etc. They are automatically there, like in the Predecessors.

Otherwise it would be to much, which broke other Games and big Mods already the Neck about the complexibility. Therefore that Ressources are automatically there in the or Space-Game-Series etc. from similar Gerne.

Therefore the only Ressource which makes the Economy more interessting to that Time with the already exisiting tradeable Ressources is Coal. Coal f. e. did long time after WW2 still give the Main-Energy in several Countrys (like China, Russia, East-Germany) and is still again interessting for some Energy-Concernces today.