your opinion on operation downfall ? info inside

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alex 9344

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Oct 23, 2015
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Operation downfall was the planned allied invasion of Japan if we never dropped the bombs now I want your guys opinions on these questions after reading

1 was the timeframe to complete downfall viable based on the allies attack strategy and the Japanese defenders?

2 do you think the Japanese estimate of American casualties was attainable based on the Japanese defence?

3 do you think Japan could have sustained there estimated 10 day kamikaze attacks?

4 how difficult do you think the invasion of Japan would have been based on what the Americans learned about Japanese warfare and the overwhelming air power America had?

5would the suicide attacks by civilians be more effective because of there greater numbers than previous banzi charges? how much more effective?
6 based on the info provided what is YOUR estimates on American casualties ? And Japanese causality ?
7 how long do you think Japan could have defended the home island's?

All information on operation downfall that I could find is here
http://www.kilroywashere.org/006-Pages/Invasion.html

Thanks for your thoughts love learning about ww2 and can't wait for my first hoi game!
 

Shade205

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Unacceptable amounts of casualties for the United States and a possible pending invasion from the Soviets (who would of had a much easier time supplying their army) are the two main reasons I see for justifying not engaging in downfall
 

Enfield303

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Well lets look at the situation.

You have:

  • Naval invasion (Always difficult and risky) of an island nation
  • An indoctrinated populace who have demonstrated on the other islands a willingness to fight to the last Man and in defence of the homeland would probably go down to the last Man, Woman and Child
  • Precedent already set for methodical use of suicide attacks by said populace
  • A (Perceived) narrow time frame to get the invasion done before the USSR could get involved ( I have my doubts as to if the Soviets would of bothered but hey ho)
To me, unless a massive and complete breakthrough could be managed immediately. I'm talking complete shock-and-awe get behind them before they know your there. You have the setting for a fight that will make the Fall of Berlin pale in comparison. Not just for a city, but an entire country.

As I'm sure your aware. The US is still issuing the Purple Heart medals they made in anticipation for the task. If The finest American Military minds thought it would be that bad...yeah I think it'd be a bit of a mess.
 
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alex 9344

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Oct 23, 2015
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Well lets look at the situation.

You have:

  • Naval invasion (Always difficult and risky) of an island nation
  • An indoctrinated populace who have demonstrated on the other islands a willingness to fight to the last Man and in defence of the homeland would probably go down to the last Man, Woman and Child
  • Precedent already set for methodical use of suicide attacks by said populace
  • A (Perceived) narrow time frame to get the invasion done before the USSR could get involved ( I have my doubts as to if the Soviets would of bothered but hey ho)
To me, unless a massive and complete breakthrough could be managed immediately. I'm talking complete shock-and-awe get behind them before they know your there. You have the setting for a fight that will make the Fall of Berlin pale in comparison. Not just for a city, but an entire country.

As I'm sure your aware. The US is still issuing the Purple Heart medals they made in anticipation for the task. If The finest American Military minds thought it would be that bad...yeah I think it'd be a bit of a mess.
Oh yeah every purple heart givensince the war has been one made for the invasion of Japan. 2 words blood bath

but you never answered the specific questions[/QUOTE]
 
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Enfield303

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Oh yeah every purple heart givensince the war has been one made for the invasion of Japan. 2 words blood bath

but you never answered the specific questions

Woops sorry. Christ I shouldn't post when I'm running on 4 hours sleep.

Honestly it comes down to too many Variables.

1 was the timeframe to complete downfall viable based on the allies attack strategy and the Japanese defenders?

No way to know. It's possible that the morale of the defenders would crumble at the first sight of the overwhelming force being brought against them...or it could of steeled their resolve to such a point where the casualties would be even higher. Human beings in desperate situations are unpredictable things

2 do you think the Japanese estimate of American casualties was attainable based on the Japanese defence?

See above

3 do you think Japan could have sustained there estimated 10 day kamikaze attacks?
For the first 3-4 days I think so. From there it depends on how successful they are, if they don't seem to be working then I think a notion of the enemy being invincible might settle in and destroy morale. If they DO work however..then it may inspire even fiercer resistance and the kamikaze attacks would extend until well past 10 days

4 how difficult do you think the invasion of Japan would have been based on what the Americans learned about Japanese warfare and the overwhelming air power America had?

The Terrain in Japan is quite varied, but much more open than the Jungles the Americans had been fighting in previously. I think the Yanks would be quite a bit more successful especially if they brought in European veterans as planned. The US army had a masterful ability to cooperate with Air Support at this point in the war and it'd be a big strength and a strong counter to the dug in defences Japan had.

It'd be very demoralising for the Japanese troops..every time they got into an extended fight, it wouldn't be long until the Corsairs turned up and started bombing them.

5 Would the suicide attacks by civilians be more effective because of there greater numbers than previous banzai charges? how much more effective?

I think the greater numbers...and the fact that most people find the idea of gunning down Women in mass quantities disheartening would make them effective for a little while. But after a few charges the American forces would become desensitized to it and they'd lose effectiveness just like normal banzai charges.

6 based on the info provided what is YOUR estimates on American casualties ? And Japanese causality ?
Impossible to tell, but Heavy on the US side and almost genocidal on the Japanese.

7 how long do you think Japan could have defended the home island's?
Several months at least, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took over a year.
 
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alex 9344

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Oct 23, 2015
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Woops sorry. Christ I shouldn't post when I'm running on 4 hours sleep.

Honestly it comes down to too many Variables.

1 was the timeframe to complete downfall viable based on the allies attack strategy and the Japanese defenders?

No way to know. It's possible that the morale of the defenders would crumble at the first sight of the overwhelming force being brought against them...or it could of steeled their resolve to such a point where the casualties would be even higher. Human beings in desperate situations are unpredictable things

2 do you think the Japanese estimate of American casualties was attainable based on the Japanese defence?

See above

3 do you think Japan could have sustained there estimated 10 day kamikaze attacks?
For the first 3-4 days I think so. From there it depends on how successful they are, if they don't seem to be working then I think a notion of the enemy being invincible might settle in and destroy morale. If they DO work however..then it may inspire even fiercer resistance and the kamikaze attacks would extend until well past 10 days

4 how difficult do you think the invasion of Japan would have been based on what the Americans learned about Japanese warfare and the overwhelming air power America had?

The Terrain in Japan is quite varied, but much more open than the Jungles the Americans had been fighting in previously. I think the Yanks would be quite a bit more successful especially if they brought in European veterans as planned. The US army had a masterful ability to cooperate with Air Support at this point in the war and it'd be a big strength and a strong counter to the dug in defences Japan had.

It'd be very demoralising for the Japanese troops..every time they got into an extended fight, it wouldn't be long until the Corsairs turned up and started bombing them.

5 Would the suicide attacks by civilians be more effective because of there greater numbers than previous banzai charges? how much more effective?

I think the greater numbers...and the fact that most people find the idea of gunning down Women in mass quantities disheartening would make them effective for a little while. But after a few charges the American forces would become desensitized to it and they'd lose effectiveness just like normal banzai charges.

6 based on the info provided what is YOUR estimates on American casualties ? And Japanese causality ?
Impossible to tell, but Heavy on the US side and almost genocidal on the Japanese.

7 how long do you think Japan could have defended the home island's?
Several months at least, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took over a year.
Hey thanks imo operation downfall is the biggest what if of the war and based on this and just the regular fanatical defence on non Japanese island s Japan makes Germany's defensive troops look like whimps (except waffen SS troops)
 

Sir Garnet

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Based on when I looked at this topic some years ago, the "enthusiasts" on both sides were over-optimistic relative to the actual state of affairs.

First of all, documentaries about the context of Japanese surrender and the Emperor’s speech make clear that his freedom to intervene for a capitulation was a near-run thing, so at the time it was quite possible that the invasion would have remained on track once atomic bombing failed to bring a prompt surrender.

1. No, longer. The extent of the defenses was seriously underestimated, and both sides had mistaken expectations about the other’s military capacities, how hard the other would persevere, and in the case of the Japanese the relative efficacy of willpower vs. hard power. See (2).

2. No. The invasion would have become slower and more deliberate as losses escalated and the density of defenses became more apparent, meaning efficient clearance would be more arduous and hazardous.

3. Don't know, maybe can’t know, how long it could be sustained even with accurate data on what was actually available for use then – certainly, the greater the effectiveness of US defenses in destroying incoming targets and generally causing attrition (including by bombardment), the more the Japanese would have to strengthen the assaults in order to seek to overwhelm the defenses to penetrate them. I am curious about the robustness of US fleet air defense readiness and whether the Japanese assault could be dense and complex enough to impair the US ability to ID friend/foe in the air and allow openings early in the battle by seeking to avoid friendly fire. Quite a mess for a time, I’d expect.

4. Operation Olympic was highly obvious but as an island gave the opportunity to cut the flow of reinforcements and supplies over the straits to a relative trickle, and therefore time to proceed more carefully and perfect tactical methods. With Japan’s leadership yet again gambling on breaking US will and using up a large portion of their resources there with no hope of evacuation, this would have to make the rest of Japan easier going, at least in the air. Wargamers would think about isolating and containing the forces on Kyushu through seapower and airpower in order to land at a more vulnerable spot on Honshu, but switching plans on the fly would not have happened in reality (the HOI4 battle planning system may create some of the same pressures). Certainly, the absence from Honshu of Japanese aviation and troops committed on Kyushu would make control of the air more manageable for the rest of Downfall. The Tokyo plain offered strategic importance and tactical advantages – relative flat terrain with buildings primarily of light and flammable construction that would make poor defensive rubble. From a strategic point of view, Hokkaido was relatively accessible to Soviet forces and a pre-emptive was feasible, but it would be a political diversion from the military task and it seems very unlikely Stalin would have overtly invaded Japan given Truman’s toughened attitude towards the Soviet regime and the greater importance to the Soviets of further gains in Europe.

5. No. With much less weapons skill, fieldcraft, discipline, and steadiness, I would expect civilian mass attacks to become uncoordinated on the approach and dissolve and even suffer substantial fratricide in the assault, making them more costly and less effective than charges by regulars. A relentless campaign of ambushes, demolitions and assaults by individuals and small groups were also part of the defense plans, and more likely, as in the Mideast today, to catch US troops in isolation, by surprise, or in a vulnerable disposition than would a conventional assault - a continual wearing campaign of psychological and physical attrition so long as the authorities could enforce their will on the people, where fanaticism would be blunted by exhaustion, hunger, and casualties.

6. Speculative. US losses would have been staggering by US standards, though not something to impress the Soviets. Japanese civilian casualties from combat effects, starvation and disease would have been impressive even to Stalin.

7. Once organized formations were smashed by ground and airpower and Japanese communications broke down completely, many would (as some soldiers did historically) fight on even in isolation until death or a recognized order to surrender, and force others to cooperate with their resistance. Such efforts might well have been supported covertly by the Soviets to stimulate continuing Japanese enmity against the US for the invasion and its consequences.
 
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Caesar15

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Imagine the famine though. The Japanese were starving even with the U.S shipping in tons of food after the war was over, so just imagine the starvation when there was a full-scale war happening.
 
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alex 9344

First Lieutenant
Oct 23, 2015
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Based on when I looked at this topic some years ago, the "enthusiasts" on both sides were over-optimistic relative to the actual state of affairs.

First of all, documentaries about the context of Japanese surrender and the Emperor’s speech make clear that his freedom to intervene for a capitulation was a near-run thing, so at the time it was quite possible that the invasion would have remained on track once atomic bombing failed to bring a prompt surrender.

1. No, longer. The extent of the defenses was seriously underestimated, and both sides had mistaken expectations about the other’s military capacities, how hard the other would persevere, and in the case of the Japanese the relative efficacy of willpower vs. hard power. See (2).

2. No. The invasion would have become slower and more deliberate as losses escalated and the density of defenses became more apparent, meaning efficient clearance would be more arduous and hazardous.

3. Don't know, maybe can’t know, how long it could be sustained even with accurate data on what was actually available for use then – certainly, the greater the effectiveness of US defenses in destroying incoming targets and generally causing attrition (including by bombardment), the more the Japanese would have to strengthen the assaults in order to seek to overwhelm the defenses to penetrate them. I am curious about the robustness of US fleet air defense readiness and whether the Japanese assault could be dense and complex enough to impair the US ability to ID friend/foe in the air and allow openings early in the battle by seeking to avoid friendly fire. Quite a mess for a time, I’d expect.

4. Operation Olympic was highly obvious but as an island gave the opportunity to cut the flow of reinforcements and supplies over the straits to a relative trickle, and therefore time to proceed more carefully and perfect tactical methods. With Japan’s leadership yet again gambling on breaking US will and using up a large portion of their resources there with no hope of evacuation, this would have to make the rest of Japan easier going, at least in the air. Wargamers would think about isolating and containing the forces on Kyushu through seapower and airpower in order to land at a more vulnerable spot on Honshu, but switching plans on the fly would not have happened in reality (the HOI4 battle planning system may create some of the same pressures). Certainly, the absence from Honshu of Japanese aviation and troops committed on Kyushu would make control of the air more manageable for the rest of Downfall. The Tokyo plain offered strategic importance and tactical advantages – relative flat terrain with buildings primarily of light and flammable construction that would make poor defensive rubble. From a strategic point of view, Hokkaido was relatively accessible to Soviet forces and a pre-emptive was feasible, but it would be a political diversion from the military task and it seems very unlikely Stalin would have overtly invaded Japan given Truman’s toughened attitude towards the Soviet regime and the greater importance to the Soviets of further gains in Europe.

5. No. With much less weapons skill, fieldcraft, discipline, and steadiness, I would expect civilian mass attacks to become uncoordinated on the approach and dissolve and even suffer substantial fratricide in the assault, making them more costly and less effective than charges by regulars. A relentless campaign of ambushes, demolitions and assaults by individuals and small groups were also part of the defense plans, and more likely, as in the Mideast today, to catch US troops in isolation, by surprise, or in a vulnerable disposition than would a conventional assault - a continual wearing campaign of psychological and physical attrition so long as the authorities could enforce their will on the people, where fanaticism would be blunted by exhaustion, hunger, and casualties.

6. Speculative. US losses would have been staggering by US standards, though not something to impress the Soviets. Japanese civilian casualties from combat effects, starvation and disease would have been impressive even to Stalin.

7. Once organized formations were smashed by ground and airpower and Japanese communications broke down completely, many would (as some soldiers did historically) fight on even in isolation until death or a recognized order to surrender, and force others to cooperate with their resistance. Such efforts might well have been supported covertly by the Soviets to stimulate continuing Japanese enmity against the US for the invasion and its consequences.
Wow someone else who knows about downfall in detail besides me! thanks for your thoughts to me downfall is the biggest what if of the war do you know how they would have defended Tokyo? The article didn't really say even though most of their troops would have been on Kyushu
 

Evan05

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Operation Downfall would've caused more deaths than dropping the two bombs. It also would've taken a lot longer too, which means er- unspeakable things the Japanese would be doing to the Chinese people.

Dropping the bomb on Japan saved a lot more lives and caused much more little damage then a drawn out, bloody, meat-grinder of an invasion would have.
 

alex 9344

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Oct 23, 2015
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Operation Downfall would've caused more deaths than dropping the two bombs. It also would've taken a lot longer too, which means er- unspeakable things the Japanese would be doing to the Chinese people.

Dropping the bomb on Japan saved a lot more lives and caused much more little damage then a drawn out, bloody, meat-grinder of an invasion would have.
I know that
 

tommylotto

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Based on when I looked at this topic some years ago, the "enthusiasts" on both sides were over-optimistic relative to the actual state of affairs.

First of all, documentaries about the context of Japanese surrender and the Emperor’s speech make clear that his freedom to intervene for a capitulation was a near-run thing, so at the time it was quite possible that the invasion would have remained on track once atomic bombing failed to bring a prompt surrender.

1. No, longer. The extent of the defenses was seriously underestimated, and both sides had mistaken expectations about the other’s military capacities, how hard the other would persevere, and in the case of the Japanese the relative efficacy of willpower vs. hard power. See (2).

2. No. The invasion would have become slower and more deliberate as losses escalated and the density of defenses became more apparent, meaning efficient clearance would be more arduous and hazardous.

3. Don't know, maybe can’t know, how long it could be sustained even with accurate data on what was actually available for use then – certainly, the greater the effectiveness of US defenses in destroying incoming targets and generally causing attrition (including by bombardment), the more the Japanese would have to strengthen the assaults in order to seek to overwhelm the defenses to penetrate them. I am curious about the robustness of US fleet air defense readiness and whether the Japanese assault could be dense and complex enough to impair the US ability to ID friend/foe in the air and allow openings early in the battle by seeking to avoid friendly fire. Quite a mess for a time, I’d expect.

4. Operation Olympic was highly obvious but as an island gave the opportunity to cut the flow of reinforcements and supplies over the straits to a relative trickle, and therefore time to proceed more carefully and perfect tactical methods. With Japan’s leadership yet again gambling on breaking US will and using up a large portion of their resources there with no hope of evacuation, this would have to make the rest of Japan easier going, at least in the air. Wargamers would think about isolating and containing the forces on Kyushu through seapower and airpower in order to land at a more vulnerable spot on Honshu, but switching plans on the fly would not have happened in reality (the HOI4 battle planning system may create some of the same pressures). Certainly, the absence from Honshu of Japanese aviation and troops committed on Kyushu would make control of the air more manageable for the rest of Downfall. The Tokyo plain offered strategic importance and tactical advantages – relative flat terrain with buildings primarily of light and flammable construction that would make poor defensive rubble. From a strategic point of view, Hokkaido was relatively accessible to Soviet forces and a pre-emptive was feasible, but it would be a political diversion from the military task and it seems very unlikely Stalin would have overtly invaded Japan given Truman’s toughened attitude towards the Soviet regime and the greater importance to the Soviets of further gains in Europe.

5. No. With much less weapons skill, fieldcraft, discipline, and steadiness, I would expect civilian mass attacks to become uncoordinated on the approach and dissolve and even suffer substantial fratricide in the assault, making them more costly and less effective than charges by regulars. A relentless campaign of ambushes, demolitions and assaults by individuals and small groups were also part of the defense plans, and more likely, as in the Mideast today, to catch US troops in isolation, by surprise, or in a vulnerable disposition than would a conventional assault - a continual wearing campaign of psychological and physical attrition so long as the authorities could enforce their will on the people, where fanaticism would be blunted by exhaustion, hunger, and casualties.

6. Speculative. US losses would have been staggering by US standards, though not something to impress the Soviets. Japanese civilian casualties from combat effects, starvation and disease would have been impressive even to Stalin.

7. Once organized formations were smashed by ground and airpower and Japanese communications broke down completely, many would (as some soldiers did historically) fight on even in isolation until death or a recognized order to surrender, and force others to cooperate with their resistance. Such efforts might well have been supported covertly by the Soviets to stimulate continuing Japanese enmity against the US for the invasion and its consequences.

Thank God for the atomic bomb.

When we learned to our astonishment that we would not be obliged in a few months to rush up the beaches near Tokyo assault-firing while being machine-gunned, mortared, and shelled, for all the practiced phlegm of our tough facades we broke down and cried with relief and joy. We were going to live.
 
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Downfall would be a costly allied victory in the end, no matter what Japan does. Two atoms bombs are, unfortunately, the more rational decision to end the conflict and save millions of humans lives on BOTH SIDES. I also consider it a geopolitical victory if you show a former ally that wants to rival you how powerful you are. It is the perfect example of a display of military superiority.
 

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do you know how they would have defended Tokyo? The article didn't really say even though most of their troops would have been on Kyushu

The Japanese, as they had done at other strategic points in the war, bet all their marbles on Kyushu rather than hedging their bets. Given the weather and ground conditions affecting an invasion of the Tokyo plain and political and economic conditions, heavy commitment to Kyushu seems justified. Work on actual defense preparations in the Kanto (Tokyo area) district lagged that in Kyushu greatly, but there were plans and contingency plans. For description and a number of Japanese maps of the kind one might use for designing a tactical scenario, you might look at

http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/MacArthur Reports/MacArthur V2 P2/ch19.htm#b6 with that chapter being specifically on the Kanto district. There are books on Downfall as well that might be borrowed through a library network.
 

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Based on when I looked at this topic some years ago, the "enthusiasts" on both sides were over-optimistic relative to the actual state of affairs.

First of all, documentaries about the context of Japanese surrender and the Emperor’s speech make clear that his freedom to intervene for a capitulation was a near-run thing, so at the time it was quite possible that the invasion would have remained on track once atomic bombing failed to bring a prompt surrender.

1. No, longer. The extent of the defenses was seriously underestimated, and both sides had mistaken expectations about the other’s military capacities, how hard the other would persevere, and in the case of the Japanese the relative efficacy of willpower vs. hard power. See (2).

2. No. The invasion would have become slower and more deliberate as losses escalated and the density of defenses became more apparent, meaning efficient clearance would be more arduous and hazardous.

3. Don't know, maybe can’t know, how long it could be sustained even with accurate data on what was actually available for use then – certainly, the greater the effectiveness of US defenses in destroying incoming targets and generally causing attrition (including by bombardment), the more the Japanese would have to strengthen the assaults in order to seek to overwhelm the defenses to penetrate them. I am curious about the robustness of US fleet air defense readiness and whether the Japanese assault could be dense and complex enough to impair the US ability to ID friend/foe in the air and allow openings early in the battle by seeking to avoid friendly fire. Quite a mess for a time, I’d expect.

4. Operation Olympic was highly obvious but as an island gave the opportunity to cut the flow of reinforcements and supplies over the straits to a relative trickle, and therefore time to proceed more carefully and perfect tactical methods. With Japan’s leadership yet again gambling on breaking US will and using up a large portion of their resources there with no hope of evacuation, this would have to make the rest of Japan easier going, at least in the air. Wargamers would think about isolating and containing the forces on Kyushu through seapower and airpower in order to land at a more vulnerable spot on Honshu, but switching plans on the fly would not have happened in reality (the HOI4 battle planning system may create some of the same pressures). Certainly, the absence from Honshu of Japanese aviation and troops committed on Kyushu would make control of the air more manageable for the rest of Downfall. The Tokyo plain offered strategic importance and tactical advantages – relative flat terrain with buildings primarily of light and flammable construction that would make poor defensive rubble. From a strategic point of view, Hokkaido was relatively accessible to Soviet forces and a pre-emptive was feasible, but it would be a political diversion from the military task and it seems very unlikely Stalin would have overtly invaded Japan given Truman’s toughened attitude towards the Soviet regime and the greater importance to the Soviets of further gains in Europe.

5. No. With much less weapons skill, fieldcraft, discipline, and steadiness, I would expect civilian mass attacks to become uncoordinated on the approach and dissolve and even suffer substantial fratricide in the assault, making them more costly and less effective than charges by regulars. A relentless campaign of ambushes, demolitions and assaults by individuals and small groups were also part of the defense plans, and more likely, as in the Mideast today, to catch US troops in isolation, by surprise, or in a vulnerable disposition than would a conventional assault - a continual wearing campaign of psychological and physical attrition so long as the authorities could enforce their will on the people, where fanaticism would be blunted by exhaustion, hunger, and casualties.

6. Speculative. US losses would have been staggering by US standards, though not something to impress the Soviets. Japanese civilian casualties from combat effects, starvation and disease would have been impressive even to Stalin.

7. Once organized formations were smashed by ground and airpower and Japanese communications broke down completely, many would (as some soldiers did historically) fight on even in isolation until death or a recognized order to surrender, and force others to cooperate with their resistance. Such efforts might well have been supported covertly by the Soviets to stimulate continuing Japanese enmity against the US for the invasion and its consequences.


Re: #5. As late as Saipan, US Army regiment broke and became overran by Banzai charge. The charge at Saipan was the usual "end of organized resistance" banzai consisting of approx 3k mix of walking wounded and REMFs, many armed with nothing more than kitchen knives taken from field mess that were lashed to bamboo poles.
That charge was able to get into the USMC regiment's perimeter and devolved into melee, and completely over ran the neighboring US Army regiment.
It wasn't due to US Army soldiers being of less quality personnel than USMC, it was that the US Army never attempted to adjust to conditions on the ground in the Pacific. While weapons were updated, the org stayed the same, so US Army line regiments were too light in personnel (10 man squad vs the USMC 13 man squad) and automatic weapons (1 per Army squad vs 3 per USMC squad) to survive mass charges. This would not have changed for the invasion of Japan.
Japan planned to start the battle for the home islands with massed charges by civilians. Inflict casualties, reduce their own logistics needs, then send in the regular forces in defensive battles of attrition ala Okinawa.

Mass charges did not need to be organized and involved no field craft at all. Just mass in the charge.

Re: the rest. There is or was an interesting series of "White Papers" (declassed info) regarding the Japanese and WW2 invasion plans of the home islands at CIA.gov. I had links but that was a few computers ago and don't have them anymore. The jist of it is that through declass radio intercepts compared to occupation sized records it's now known that Japan was able to move entire divisions of troops undetected into the home islands and from island to island within the same. Allied planning missed some 30% of actual Japanese Army force.
Japan had approx 1400 quality aircraft held in reserve and hidden in forest and tunneled mountain air fields specifically for homeland defense.

Also, the Japanese command had learned from Okinawa. The kamikaze raids inflicted more damage and causalities on the USN than any other battle in history. The Japan command knew from their own radio intercepts that the USN began agitating for a withdrawal from Okinawa at the peek of the kamikaze attacks, even if it meant abandoning the US ground forces there. The Japanese command intended to take advantage of that by launching both aerial and small fast surface craft attacks at the fleet as it approached the landing zones to split defensive gunfire focus. The targeted ship priorities were aircraft carriers and troop ships exclusively. All other ships to be ignored.

A combined force command of allied planners held a reevaluation of the invasion of Japan in, iirc, 1950, with the information upgrades provided by that gathered during the occupation of Japan that concluded that not only would the invasion have been a disaster, but one which would have taken at least 2 years to recover from sufficiently to relaunch another attempt.

Of course, I can't find the links again, so it could well be a case of me either making stuff up, or misremembering. Someone with better googlefu can, hopefully, find the sources.
 
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Direlda

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Of course, I can't find the links again, so it could well be a case of me either making stuff up, or misremembering. Someone with better googlefu can, hopefully, find the sources.

Is The Final Months of the War With Japan the document you are looking for?

EDIT: I have also found Reports of General MacArthur: The Campaigns of MacArthur in the Pacific, Volume 1 on the U.S. Army Center of Military History website. Chapter 13: "DOWNFALL" The Plan for the Invasion of Japan might be relevant.

The US Army Combined Arms Research Library (CARL) has an unclassified draft of the Operation Downfall plan.

Still trying to find any white papers from the 1950s that match your description.

Second EDIT: Reports of General MacArthur: Japanese Operations in the Southwest Pacific Area, Volume 2, Part 2 has three chapters that might be relevant. Chapter 18 is about the Japanese homeland defense. Chapter 19 is about strategic setbacks and final preparations for Japanese defense of the homeland. And Chapter 17 talks about various suicide attack strategies. These reports appear to have been printed in 1950, so they might be related to the white papers in question.

Third EDIT: An article in the August 1965 Marine Corps Gazette looked at Japanese and American plans for an invasion of the Japanese homeland. Article available through ibiblio.org or through the Marine Corps Association (requires membership).
 
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I'm not an expert on Downfall and the like, but I do recall hearing/reading somewhere (as well as from posters on this forum) that the Soviet invasion of Manchuria had a significant impact on Japan's move to surrender. In-game, if it was just the a-bomb, without the Soviet invasion, Japan could perhaps be a little less willing to surrender and require a degree of invading?

The Japanese command intended to take advantage of that by launching both aerial and small fast surface craft attacks at the fleet as it approached the landing zones to split defensive gunfire focus. The targeted ship priorities were aircraft carriers and troop ships exclusively. All other ships to be ignored.

In looking into naval production, I came across Japan building around 6000 Shinyo motorboats (note, that's total build, not how many they had at any point in time - as one would expect, the shelf life of a kamikaze speed boat wasn't terribly long), that were basically kamikaze speedboats. While they weren't terribly effective, they'd have caused trouble for an invasion fleet. They also built around 400 'Kaiten', or human torpedoes (based on the type 93 torpedo) for similar purposes, and had 200 midget subs (with 18" torpedoes) for home defence. as well as a number of MTBs. Probably enough to cause at least a bit of a headache for the invasion when it came.
 
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Is The Final Months of the War With Japan the document you are looking for?

EDIT: I have also found Reports of General MacArthur: The Campaigns of MacArthur in the Pacific, Volume 1 on the U.S. Army Center of Military History website. Chapter 13: "DOWNFALL" The Plan for the Invasion of Japan might be relevant.

The US Army Combined Arms Research Library (CARL) has an unclassified draft of the Operation Downfall plan.

Still trying to find any white papers from the 1950s that match your description.

Second EDIT: Reports of General MacArthur: Japanese Operations in the Southwest Pacific Area, Volume 2, Part 2 has three chapters that might be relevant. Chapter 18 is about the Japanese homeland defense. Chapter 19 is about strategic setbacks and final preparations for Japanese defense of the homeland. And Chapter 17 talks about various suicide attack strategies. These reports appear to have been printed in 1950, so they might be related to the white papers in question.

Third EDIT: An article in the August 1965 Marine Corps Gazette looked at Japanese and American plans for an invasion of the Japanese homeland. Article available through ibiblio.org or through the Marine Corps Association (requires membership).

I did not mean to state or imply that the White Papers were authored in 1950. The WP were a much later production. What I intended was my memory (however shaky and potentially errored) recalled mention of a high level staff conference held somewhere in the '50s to compare and contrast what was believed to be known/true by intel during the invasion planning and later gathered data post war end.

Edited to add: Forgot to say very well done on the info gathering.
Semper Fi.
 

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I'm not an expert on Downfall and the like, but I do recall hearing/reading somewhere (as well as from posters on this forum) that the Soviet invasion of Manchuria had a significant impact on Japan's move to surrender. In-game, if it was just the a-bomb, without the Soviet invasion, Japan could perhaps be a little less willing to surrender and require a degree of invading?

If my memory serves correctly the Soviet invasion of Manchuria started as Japan surrendered and went on for two weeks after.
 
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If my memory serves correctly the Soviet invasion of Manchuria started as Japan surrendered and went on for two weeks after.

Soviet invasion was 9 August, and Japan announced their surrender on August 15, so I'd say it had a large influence on Japan. The invasion resulted in the desolation of the Kwantung Army, cut off the Japanese army in China, and took away one of Japan's last large sources of resources.
 
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