Your ideas for origins

[Dmitrius]

WAIT...
Biggest roadblock to launching this.

What happens when a single Zombie immigrates into a non-Zombie empire? Or when a non-zombie conquers a zombie world?

It would end up converting the whole empire, right?

I mean it wouldn't "just" (if successful) steamroll the galaxy through genocidal conquest. It would assimilate the whole galaxy even if the Zombies were fanatic pacifists, right?

Do the Zombie Worlds automatically switch ownership, or is it just that basically all species eventually gain the Undead trait?

You have to assume that other species would be unwilling to trade with you. Essentially treating you as a devouring horde. Though I'm not certain.

Honestly there's a lot of detail that would need to be ironed out and I can't see Paradox doing it just cause I ask nicely lol. Still I think there's something to it and the species and ship packs would be the cats pyjamas.

Think Firefly Reavers

 

[klopkr]

1. Subterranean: Start out with some underground districts and the ability to dig extra districts into planets. Option to do this with a perk.
2. Aquatic: New secondary planet tab with own districts and buildings but only on wetplanets, only accessible by aquatic species. Capital is anew planet type: waterworld, only inhabitable by aquatic creatures with a mastery of nature option to add 3-4 land districts.
3. Automata: Hive and Machine origin that disables all diplomacy for regular perks.They don't think, they just do. All contact messages are just blank answers. ...
   
4. Buffer state: Start between two advanced empires with guarantees from both.
5. Crisis of the first empire: The galaxy starts fully populated with one special large fallen empire in a small hegemonic federation. Player starts with one planet and a few extra techs and their entire local area under their control. All empires start advanced empire size and advanced empires are a bit larger too. All non xenephobic species have the advanced empires species, decided as your secondary species. If you defeat the special fallen empire you can take the title of Galactic Empire or Second Galactic Empire. You have knowledge of all other empires territories right at game start but don't see more than that. The downside is less expansion space and a much shorter discovery phase.
6. Human dominance: All non forced empires use human portraits. Sol is always a fallen human empire. If you play a human their expansions are mentioned, if you play a humanoid they're referenced as human offshoot species.
   
7. Matriarchy: Leaders are all female. Better relations with other matriarchies.
8. Patriarchy: Flip side.
   
9. Turtle Empire: Start as a megalopolis with a agricultural moon but have reduced research speed.
   
10. Freed: Start as a pacified civilization who's shell just got cracked millenia later, start with a few non space related techs and an advanced neighbour.

 

[t_b]

Cutthroat Assassins

Description: This empire had to murder all other leaders on its planet to gain control of it and plan's to do the same in the galaxy.

Requirements: May not be Gestalt

Features:

Has a -15 opinion buff to all other empires. Has +20% attacking army damage and -10% while defending. Homeworld has modifier "Dead Leaders" giving -5 stability, +10% worker pop happiness and +20% ruler resource production​

Units: Can recruit Master Assassin army type to kill enemy leaders-costs 1000 minerals, damage 4-8, health 500, Not Affected by Morale and 5 energy upkeep. Can travel through closed borders to reach enemy planets. Can assassinate enemy leaders by clicking on the relevant planet or ship (with a 5 year cooldown on attempts.) Can not be seen by other empires.​

Assassinating (through Master Assassin):

Targets:
Capitals allow killing of the governor, research scientists, the ruler, on planet generals and a random idle leader. Other planets allow killing of the governor and on planet generals. Targeting fleets allows killing of their admiral or general.

Cost:
Killing rulers costs 2000, governors 1500, scientists 1250, generals 1000, admirals 1500​

Chances of success, failure and the Master Assassin Dying:

Discovery:
Each assassination attempt has a chance to be discovered by the targeted empire giving them -100 opinion (+5 yearly) and all other empires -25 opinion of you (+5 yearly).
The chances are:
Ruler: 30%
Governor: 20%
Scientist:15%
Admiral: 15%
General: 15%​

Special Decision:

Order of Assassin Empires also have the "Kill Ruler." Decision which costs 50 influence and 3000 energy to kill their empire's ruler. This will lead to a new ruler being chosen.​

Any better?
Any recommendations welcome

​

 

[Foefaller]

Order of Assassins

Description: This empire is based off a brutal culture of kill or be killed and is happy to lie, cheat and murder to achieve dominance.

Requirements: May not be Gestalt

Features: Has a -15 opinion buff to all other empires. Has +20% attacking army damage and -10% while defending.

Units: Can recruit Master Assassin army type to kill enemy leaders-costs 1000 minerals, damage 4-8, health 500, Not Affected by Morale and 5 energy upkeep. Can travel through closed borders to reach enemy planets. Can assassinate enemy leaders by clicking on the relevant planet or ship (with a 5 year cooldown on attempts.) Can not be seen by other empires.​

Assassinating (through Master Assassin):

Targets:
Capitals allow killing of the governor, research scientists, the ruler, on planet generals and a random idle leader. Other planets allow killing of the governor and on planet generals. Targeting fleets allows killing of their admiral or general.

Cost:
Killing rulers costs 2000, governors 1500, scientists 1250, generals 1000, admirals 1500​

Chances of success, failure and the Master Assassin Dying:
View attachment 522721

Discovery:
Each assassination attempt has a chance to be discovered by the targeted empire giving them -100 opinion (+5 yearly) and all other empires -25 opinion of you (+5 yearly).
The chances are:
Ruler: 30%
Governor: 20%
Scientist:15%
Admiral: 15%
General: 15%​

Special Decision:

Order of Assassin Empires also have the "Kill Ruler." Decision which costs 50 influence and 3000 energy to kill their empire's ruler. This will lead to a new ruler being chosen.
​

Any recommendations welcome

​

Sounds more like a Civic to come with an Espionage DLC than an origin.

...and while killing leaders is a classic Espionage action, it's also arguably one of the most despised, hitting the perfect sweet spot of being absolutely frustrating to the victim while at the same time almost impossible for the assassin to tell if it actually did anything that would matter in the long run.

 

[t_b]

Sounds more like a Civic to come with an Espionage DLC than an origin.

...and while killing leaders is a classic Espionage action, it's also arguably one of the most despised, hitting the perfect sweet spot of being absolutely frustrating to the victim while at the same time almost impossible for the assassin to tell if it actually did anything that would matter in the long run.

In what way it is a civic not an origin?
Also understand what you mean by killing being annoying, maybe some bonus like influence or happiness for the killers and reduced chances would make it more enjoyable?

 

[G S Palmer]

In what way it is a civic not an origin?
Also understand what you mean by killing being annoying, maybe some bonus like influence or happiness for the killers and reduced chances would make it more enjoyable?

Because it sounds much more like something that could be switched out than an integral part of your empire's backstory.

 

[t_b]

Because it sounds much more like something that could be switched out than an integral part of your empire's backstory.

Yeah, but what actually defines something being an origin, e.g does it need to effect the start of the game, does it need to have long-term affects, does it need to completely change playstyle or is it only about the backstory working?

 

[G S Palmer]

Yeah, but what actually defines something being an origin, e.g does it need to effect the start of the game, does it need to have long-term affects, does it need to completely change playstyle?

Different ones can do all of those, although ideally they shouldn't just be early game and should continue to have an effect. I mean, you've presumably seen the list of known origins: just look through those and you'll find examples of what they should be like.

 

[SeekingEtermity]

I would like an machine only origin:

Artificial planet:

You start on a machine world

This is just too much better than Life-Seeded. You get the 10% production bonus, you get an extra 10% housing bonus (more actually, since its a housing use reduction and those stack better), and you get unlimited resource districts and a homeworld that is worthless to most of your enemies instead of being a glorious prize. Yes, you don't get the rare resources or the size 25 (I personally think that should be increased, now that there's no hard cap on planet size), but you get to completely skip the (massive) penalty that comes with Life-Seeded because you ignore habitability.

 

[SeekingEtermity]

Remember, the's need to be things that after like 50 years, if they were CIVICS, would leave you thinking "Why is it still taking up a civic slot when it doesn't affect me at all anymore??"

Like the way Post-Apocalyptic, Life-Seeded, and Syncretic Evolution only affect you through the consequences of the effect they already had on you earlier.

I think this is a little too restrictive - no reason you shouldn't be able to have an origin that both changes early gameplay and later gameplay - but it's mostly true of the existing "origin" civics. Life-seeded will still be messing with your custom-designed-species' habitability, post-apocalyptic's 10-year lifespan boost can get you over the awkward hump where most of your early leaders die before you hit runaway life extension, syncretic will mean having another species even if you are, say, playing Inward Perfection and hence have no migration treaties, refugees, or conquered planets, and mechanist's 5% upkeep reduction can be significant if (let's be honest: when) you machine ascend... But none of them are going to drastically change gameplay.

 

[t_b]

-

 

[Foefaller]

Yeah, but what actually defines something being an origin, e.g does it need to effect the start of the game, does it need to have long-term affects, does it need to completely change playstyle or is it only about the backstory working?

I think the key distinction is does the idea require a start that isn't "24-29 pops of a single species with no extraordinary features living on their original, ordinary homeworld with no day 1 diplomatic relations with other empires." If the answer is "no," then 99% of the time it's probably a civic.

 

[t_b]

I think the key distinction is does the idea require a start that isn't 24-29 pops of a single species with no extraordinary features on their ordinary homeworld with no day 1 diplomatic relations with other empires. If the answer is "no," then 99% of the time it's probably a civic.

So inward perfection/genocidal civics are still civics?
Seems kinda strange seeing as how dramatically different they are to normal civics...

 

[SeekingEtermity]

So inward perfection/genocidal civics are still civics?
Seems kinda strange seeing as how dramatically different they are to normal civics...

Yes. This has been both implicitly and explicitly confirmed by the devs multiple times now, in dev diaries and other threads.

Also, you wouldn't necessarily want them to be origins, because even today you can do thinks like combine Post-Apocalyptic with Fanatic Purifiers (it's even kind of fun/flavorful, and makes Armageddon bombardment a lot more useful). Making them both origins would break that.

Besides, there's no inherent reason why an empire couldn't stop being a purifier; it's locked for balance reasons, nothing more, and even there there are ways to wiggle out if it (you can invalidate the civic if you manage to get an ethics shift, and you can remove it entirely using the psionic-ascended God-Emperor event after getting a Chosen One). Origins are things you can't stop being without time travel.

Also, you're using the wrong test. Origin vs. Non-origin isn't determined by amount of gameplay impact; plenty of removable civics have a bigger gameplay effect than, say, Post-Apocalyptic. It's determined by how much it changes your start conditions.

 

[Foefaller]

So inward perfection/genocidal civics are still civics?
Seems kinda strange seeing as how dramatically different they are to normal civics...

Yes. They might be gameplay-changers, but they don't fundamentally change how your empire begins either.

They're also largely about how the empire runs, and not necessarily a profound part of your species/empire that transcends it's ethics and civics.

 

[t_b]

Yes. They might be gameplay-changers, but they don't fundamentally change how your empire begins either.

They're also largely about how the empire runs, and not necessarily a profound part of your species/empire that transcends it's ethics and civics.

Yes. This has been both implicitly and explicitly confirmed by the devs multiple times now, in dev diaries and other threads.

Also, you wouldn't necessarily want them to be origins, because even today you can do thinks like combine Post-Apocalyptic with Fanatic Purifiers (it's even kind of fun/flavorful, and makes Armageddon bombardment a lot more useful). Making them both origins would break that.

Besides, there's no inherent reason why an empire couldn't stop being a purifier; it's locked for balance reasons, nothing more, and even there there are ways to wiggle out if it (you can invalidate the civic if you manage to get an ethics shift, and you can remove it entirely using the psionic-ascended God-Emperor event after getting a Chosen One). Origins are things you can't stop being without time travel.

Also, you're using the wrong test. Origin vs. Non-origin isn't determined by amount of gameplay impact; plenty of removable civics have a bigger gameplay effect than, say, Post-Apocalyptic. It's determined by how much it changes your start conditions.

Ok, now things make more sense, thank you.
I still feel like there needs to be some kind of different category for the special civics though because they make the game far more interesting and define an empire's whole personality
Anyway soz for the trouble

 

[fall back]

The voice
Your race has all ways felt a voice in there mind a collective call that inspired meany of our great leaps from iron smelting to the hyperlanes that streak across the heavens however in some the call is to strong and slowly they begin to distance themselves from reality

effects
Randomly gain tech that you can research (devs can find a balance)
Can only go psyonic ascension
Leaders can randomly gain or lose leaves
Can allwaes build temples that give government ethics

 

[t_b]

Life-Veiled

Description: through psionic tampering this empire accidentally turned their former paradise into a shrouded world. They were however able to control it and now live within the mysterious planet.

Features: Homeworld is a size 20

Stable Shrouded World with special districts and the "Whispering Clouds" modifier giving -10% happiness and +15% research output. The species also receives the Shroudling trait

Stable Shrouded World Districts:

City Replacement-Void Dwelling Centre: same as a normal city district except do not give clerk jobs or take up districts and each void dwelling district built decreases pop growth/construction speed by -3% (As people keep disappearing from their own homes into the void, the void keeps growing)

Generator Replacement- Shroud Tapping Centre: same as normal generator district except technicians are replaced by Shroud Collectors who produce +1 extra energy and -0.2 stability (Energy is abundant on this planet, controlling it safely however is difficult)

Mining District Replacement- Shroud Condensing Centre: same as normal mining district except miners are replaced by Shroud Materialisers who produce +1 minerals and +2.5 crime (the riches of the shroud are seemingly endless leading some astray)

Farming District Replacement- Shroud-life farm: same as normal farming district except farmers are replaced by Shroud Harvesters who produce +1.5 extra food but reduce government ethics attraction by -3% (These specialised farmers are forced to deal with plants which put ideas from the void into their heads, ideas which quickly spread to others)
​

Trait:

Shroudling: Gives +80% habitability for Stable Shrouded Worlds and +50% habitability for all regular worlds.
​

Please advise on balance and literally anything else.

 

[Iosue Yu]

I suppose we can't just throw out Origins with "ideas" out of the blue. I'd say we should be listing out archetypes from Sci-Fi Tropes as the basic framework for Origins.

And, as a fan of Mass Effect, I'd like to see all the races realised.

1. Exiled (Quarians), designates an homeworld planet owned by another Empire (Geth), starts on a special (bigger) Habitat floating around a star (instead of having to be around a planet). Species gains a special Trait (Home sickness?) of reduced habitability where you have to "touch down" on your homeworld in order to start removing this trait.
2. Toxic (Vorcha), starts on a Toxic world, species can live everywhere on the galaxy, but have reduced Trait Points.
3. Mutual Symbiosis (Hanar and Drell), instead of having a "Syncretic Species", the secondary species are just another regular species without having penalised with "Serviles" Trait (Also can have a different habitability type). And the two species has some form of a special bond.
4. Biological Assimilator (Kett), somehow can absorb other Pops into their own Species. They can't have any Trait at the beginning, but Pops "converted" into their own will have the traits inherited from the original species. They can then use these new Pops as templates to Gene-mod themselves.
5. Fanatical Purifier for Hive (instead of Devouring Swarm) (Collector), also, should have a new Extermination Type called "Experimentation", generating Research Points from Exterminated Pops.
6. Feudal Dynasties (Salarians, Krogans, and probably many other civilisations too, Rome was like this.), Empire lead by the biggest Dynasty (Clan). There will be "noble clans" in their politics, all Leaders are generated from these clans. The Ruler can have an heir, the heir will compete with other Leaders to become the next Ruler.

 

[Valentin Vattista]

Machine Vanquishers:
Must be some form of Militarist.
This species once created robots to serve them, only to be betrayed by them. After a long and cruel war, they however managed to Vanquish the machine menace.

-Start on a tomb world with several 'Machine graveyard' Tile blockers which grant alloys and engineering research when removed
-Starts with all forms of robots and AI outlawed at the start date and can't go down AI ascension path
- -1000 relations toward any machine empire if AI, as well as -1000 oppinion by any machine empire towards the vanquishers
- A special End threat CB (End the Machine Menace) against all machine empires. Machine empires have an end threat CB against Machine Vanquishers as well.
-Outlaw AI CB against all Empires with AI or robots, similiar to impose Ideology
-Materialist faction won't develope synth envy, and Militarist faction will have 'Great war against the Machines' as an issue which demands that you exterminate all machines in the galaxy.
- special Edict (Great war against the Machines) which can only be activated when fighting an "outlaw AI" or "End the Machine Menace" CB war that grants -10% ship cost, -10% ship build speed and -25% ship upkeep, as well as +20% ship fire rate, +20% Army morale and +20% army damage. -50% activation cost if in a defensive war, free during the Contingency endgame crisis.

TL;DR:
Origin that allows you to play determined exterminators, but only against robots.