"You released us in peace! We are going to rival you now! Now we insult you!"

[wetblowdryer]

They're my rival? WHY? What do they want from me? I am so much larger and more powerful than them that I eventually ended up squashing them like a bug.

This isn't even the worst part. They are constantly sending me insults and embargoing me.

They have one ambiguous ally who was so unimportant and powerless that I forgot their name. Bohemia couldn't protect them. They could barely support 15,000 men!

I eventually ended up - you guessed it, squashing them like a bug.

The only real threat there was Muscovy who became the war leader because Bohemia called them to the war. Bohemia was so weak that Muscovy ended up taking over. They were too far away to matter.

I don't understand why Bohemia went rogue on me.

 

[unmerged(739896)]

You don't own them, so they're scared to death of being the next one to be annexed/turned into a puppet.

In my last game I fought a 12 years war to save the Dutch people in Brabant. A few years later, they joined the coalition against me, declared war and brought France and Austria together with them.

Never release nations if they will share a border with you, if you're an expansionist power you're going to regret it.

 

[hwoosh]

Players release nations in war settlements all the time, because it makes it easy to gobble up both smaller nations in separate wars. The fact that the AI 'knows' this and takes steps to ensure its self-preservation is a good thing.

 

[wetblowdryer]

You don't own them, so they're scared to death of being the next one to be annexed/turned into a puppet.

Their actions are making the situation worse. Is it not?

 

[hwoosh]

Their actions are making the situation worse. Is it not?

Not necessarily. Rivalling you means better relations with your other enemies. They could be laying the foundations for a coalition against you, depending on how much AE you've accrued. If they hadn't rivalled you, they'd still be sitting ducks when you decided to curbstomp them.

 

[unmerged(739896)]

Oh yes, I always annex whoever dares to declares war on their former saviours, as it sends a strong message (in my own head, in reality it makes things a lot worse).

 

[wetblowdryer]

Not necessarily. Rivalling you means better relations with your other enemies. They could be laying the foundations for a coalition against you, depending on how much AE you've accrued. If they hadn't rivalled you, they'd still be sitting ducks when you decided to curbstomp them.

They never tried to be friendly with me. I most certainly would have accepted a royal marriage and alliance if they tried. I have no idea who they're trying to impress. I've beaten Austria so much that they're no longer rivaled to me and seem to have given up. England, Spain (PU) and Portugal all have an alliance with me and the only other great power whom I can think of in that game is Muscovy, but they're sooo far away.

 

[Anthropoid]

When you release someone, you get an immediate big ass boost to relations. I haven't looked it up, but its substantial. For example, I have frequently released Flanders from either Burgundy or Austria, and they immediately like me a lot.

Yes, I did this because I wanted to eat Flanders and add it to my (French) kingdom, and yes this was sneaky on my part. But the mistake I did not make was to 'neglect' the 'ruse' that they were my little buddy. Because you are in an immediate 5-year truce with these released nations, you need to at least -not antagonize- them if you want to avoid them getting cheeky with you before you are ready to war dec them. I actually find that, in the interim years after releasing them and being ready to start taking their provinces, that it can be quite beneficial to make them an 'ally.'

They will likely ask you for an RM (the diplomatic equivalent of shacking up, literally) but you do NOT want to get embroiled in that nonsense. Tell them "No. Lets just be friends." Ally them, Proclaim your 'undying' proclamation of their independence, send them gifts, whisper sweet nothings in their little AI 'ears' (one zero zero, one zero zero, one, SOS!), give them military access, and ask for it in return, respond to their CTAs (when it is not suicidal), beguile them in every possible way EXCEPT for the old Royale Marriage.

RM costs a stab hit to get out of and has negative repurcussions on all other RM partners. The other stuff just lowers relations.

When the time comes to war dec your unsuspecting little buddy that you released from the big mean Austrian bad man, just start reversing all your existing diplomatic relations:
revoke access
cancel access
revoke promise of independence
dissolve alliance, etc.

If you really want to play the villain, excommunicate them (if you are curia controller) or send them an insult to goad them.

Now you are fully prepared to take advantage of having released your little "friend" from the clutches of your evil rival and welcome them (at point of gun/sword/pike/numchuk) and all of their lands and productive peasants and burgers with open arms ( . . . well, at least ONE arm 'open;' I guess the other one will necessarily be brandishing one of the aforementioned weapons of war . . .) into your realm as a vassal/annex. Maybe even some of their nobles might live to become part of your lower tier bureaucracy or something.

 

[roman566]

Never release nations if they will share a border with you, if you're an expansionist power you're going to regret it.

I have released Astrakhan and Afganistan. Both diplovasalized several months later.
Maybe the whole point is to vasalize the released nation ASAP? If you take your time they might start to dislike you?

 

[Anthropoid]

I have released Astrakhan and Afganistan. Both diplovasalized several months later.
Maybe the whole point is to vasalize the released nation ASAP? If you take your time they might start to dislike you?

It is perfectly fine to release those with whom you will share a border; the border friction malus is miniscule compared to the rest of pluses you can stack up in the interim. Just do as I describe above, befriend them in every way you like (except an RM) and then be prepared to take their stuff when the truce wears off or as soon after that as it is prudent for you.

 

[niallmcfc]

It's slightly worse on the AE front, but I'd always suggest taking one province, then releasing the nation from that province. It's a guaranteed vassal that you can feed later, and you don't have to jump through hoops or risk rivalry. Though as I said, it does result in AE for taking the province, and if you have more cores of theirs then they'd get them as well (not much of a problem if you're going to annex them again later).

In the end though, the best plan is to try lots of different ways and see what works for you personally, not other people.

 

[wetblowdryer]

I have released Astrakhan and Afganistan. Both diplovasalized several months later.
Maybe the whole point is to vasalize the released nation ASAP? If you take your time they might start to dislike you?

They were IMMEDIATELY my rival. I had absolutely no chance to engage in relations with them.

 

[Gundi]

Perhaps it was because Burgundy was your rival when the inheritance event fired? Also you probably had a ton of their cores.

 

[unmerged(804580)]

I see that you released Burgundy... may I ask why? Is it because they're the biggest ones to release so you could weaken from-whomever-it-was-released (presumably Austria)?

I think some of the comments above make sense. Burgundy doesn't want to have relationships with you because they do not want to be diploannexed. Some of the OPMs would rather take that, but given the size it's highly unlikely you'll be able to annex/vassalize them at 100% warscore. From what I've seen, the AIs value their independence. Rivaling and insulting is one way of saying "I do not want to have diplomatic relationships with you."

Really, let's say you forced Austria to release Burgundy. If you were Burgundy, who would you rather ally? France or Austria? I'd take Austria because then you'd get some hope of holding the French at least for some amount of time. If I take France, I risk being eventually diplovassalized because then I'd be helping the French. Peacefully released +100, Royal Marriage +25, Same Religion +25, Alliance +50 already sum up to +200, and even if you're heretics to each other a little bit of diplomat work can make you reach +190 pretty much right away. Setting you as a rival can knock down -50. Burgundy may lose provinces in a war with France, but they can remain independent for a longer time.

But let's say you released Luxembourg. Luxembourg is an OPM, and if they take part in any war and lose, they risk being annexed outright, especially if that enemy is France. Luxembourg AI probably weighs the risk of diplovassalization and total annexation and decides to be threatened/friendly to you so they survive at least a bit longer by not angering France. Another option to prolong their independene, coalition, is not available to them if they're just released.

Although all this is just my hunch, I think I've seen this consistantly happening. When I release an annexable sized nation, they're either threatened or cordial towards me. When I release a large, unannexable nation their attitude is usually rivalry or downright hostile.

Personally, I'd have just released Burgundy as a vassal and fed the provinces back.

 

[hitchens]

Players release nations in war settlements all the time, because it makes it easy to gobble up both smaller nations in separate wars. The fact that the AI 'knows' this and takes steps to ensure its self-preservation is a good thing.

Yeah like the AI knows

 

[hwoosh]

Yeah like the AI knows

That's why I used the scare quotes. We all know the AI does not know or think anything, in the true sense of the word; but I don't think the AI in OP's example is showing buggy or poorly-coded behavior.

 

[wetblowdryer]

Perhaps it was because Burgundy was your rival when the inheritance event fired? Also you probably had a ton of their cores.

Why does that last sentence make me suddenly doubt the core system and "release nation" option?

I see that you released Burgundy... may I ask why? Is it because they're the biggest ones to release so you could weaken from-whomever-it-was-released (presumably Austria)?

I think some of the comments above make sense. Burgundy doesn't want to have relationships with you because they do not want to be diploannexed. Some of the OPMs would rather take that, but given the size it's highly unlikely you'll be able to annex/vassalize them at 100% warscore. From what I've seen, the AIs value their independence. Rivaling and insulting is one way of saying "I do not want to have diplomatic relationships with you."

Really, let's say you forced Austria to release Burgundy. If you were Burgundy, who would you rather ally? France or Austria? I'd take Austria because then you'd get some hope of holding the French at least for some amount of time. If I take France, I risk being eventually diplovassalized because then I'd be helping the French. Peacefully released +100, Royal Marriage +25, Same Religion +25, Alliance +50 already sum up to +200, and even if you're heretics to each other a little bit of diplomat work can make you reach +190 pretty much right away. Setting you as a rival can knock down -50. Burgundy may lose provinces in a war with France, but they can remain independent for a longer time.

But let's say you released Luxembourg. Luxembourg is an OPM, and if they take part in any war and lose, they risk being annexed outright, especially if that enemy is France. Luxembourg AI probably weighs the risk of diplovassalization and total annexation and decides to be threatened/friendly to you so they survive at least a bit longer by not angering France. Another option to prolong their independene, coalition, is not available to them if they're just released.

Although all this is just my hunch, I think I've seen this consistantly happening. When I release an annexable sized nation, they're either threatened or cordial towards me. When I release a large, unannexable nation their attitude is usually rivalry or downright hostile.

Personally, I'd have just released Burgundy as a vassal and fed the provinces back.

The issue with that theory is maybe Austria will want those cores back. Really, it comes down to a violent death or a peaceful death. To those who may be curious: I was not the cause of Burgundy's downfall. They were so weak that they eventually got swallowed by Liege. (yeah. that is how weak they were) With the war that Austria released them, I got no direct benefits from it

That's why I used the scare quotes. We all know the AI does not know or think anything, in the true sense of the word; but I don't think the AI in OP's example is showing buggy or poorly-coded behavior.

Just curious: you think the AI (Burgundy) sending me insults and embargoes was sensible giving me CB's against them while having no chance of beating me?

 

[hitchens]

That's why I used the scare quotes. We all know the AI does not know or think anything, in the true sense of the word; but I don't think the AI in OP's example is showing buggy or poorly-coded behavior.

I release nation X because I could use an ally but oh no, the AI 'knows' better so the nation I released is now a rival. And thats a 'good thing'?

 

[Miaow]

You are not meant to play EUIV in any way other than attempting a World Conquest. The AI will do its utmost (not really that much, except when it forms a mega-coalition before you get big) to stop or slow your WC. If you were trying to do something else, the AI will continue to act as if you were attempting a WC. The AI will always consider that your long-term goal is annexing it because of this.

 

[hwoosh]

I release nation X because I could use an ally but oh no, the AI 'knows' better so the nation I released is now a rival. And thats a 'good thing'?

The AI cannot read your mind. Wasn't that the very point of your first snarky comment?