You killed a game!

[Janster]

Hehe..Of course its better, but there is always those who whine that ick 1.02 was sooo much better.. but then PLAY 1.02..

BUT the sad fact is, 1.03 is only a step on the road to the potential Vic has ..

Jan

 

[grumbold]

The game is not very hard, nor is it very easy. It is both. Once you make it over the railroad tech hump, you can't do anything wrong short of losing the war catastrophically.

I agree. Lucky I wasn't trying to say it was then :rofl:

To get over the railroad tech hump you have to get to grips with the economic model in the difficult start phase. For some players 1.01 or even easier could be about right for that initial crunch

 

[Duuk]

One thing that annoys me is the initial economic situtation.

I tried playing Sardinia-Piedmont and I was overwhelmed with a debt burden before 2 years were out. All this after increasing my taxes 25%, my tarriffs to the limit, and reducing my expenses hugely.

So there are a few tweaks necessary for total enjoyment, but I don't see anything that makes me hate 1.03

 

[DGuller]

I agree. Lucky I wasn't trying to say it was then :rofl:

To get over the railroad tech hump you have to get to grips with the economic model in the difficult start phase. For some players 1.01 or even easier could be about right for that initial crunch

Yes,that's the interesting part. Unfortunately, it's also one-dimensional, you have to put your country in sleep mode and cut off crime fighting, army, and defence spending, while maximizing taxes and tarriffs just to last until the railroads come.

 

[unmerged(19825)]

One thing that annoys me is the initial economic situtation.

I tried playing Sardinia-Piedmont and I was overwhelmed with a debt burden before 2 years were out. All this after increasing my taxes 25%, my tarriffs to the limit, and reducing my expenses hugely.

So there are a few tweaks necessary for total enjoyment, but I don't see anything that makes me hate 1.03

I don't hate 1.03. I was trying to play it whole weekend. My hat is off to Johan - but I do hate this design decision because I don't have 5 hands and 13 brains to micromanage and at the same time send divisions into war - what I want to say is that Prussia never left divisions at 1300 men instead of 10000. WTF? So we are talking about history here?

And I as a player am forced to cut my Army maintenance because there is -200 $ at the start or so...

This is plain design error and if some players like it fine - then make some other patch for us who don't like it.

I don't say that economy must be all honey and milk and no problem at all - but there should not be show stopping so obvious game problems. You want historical games then make it historical in a sense that there is not so many problems by keeping peace-time army big and ready for war.

Because for example Russian AI tends to attack Prussia very quickly - if we go by the book Russians would need ONE month for mobilization in 1800's.

Just to answer by this to some people who thinks that economical model is realistic in Victoria. It is not realistic. And cannot be realistic. It is just best to make it PLAYABLE in the game terms and fun.


Garrr

 

[unmerged(23687)]

I cannot understand the complains about 1.03 economy

1. Prussia is definetly not an easy Nation and perhaps not for average players. It seems to me that not everybody realizes that. Try at first an easier Nation and come back to Prussia later with more experience.

2. Your own personell SP economic sweet-spot is since 1.03 only a few mouseklicks away. Change Input, Output, Prices what ever you want and need to have fun while playing. If you want you can simulate the same economie like 1.01. And money will be no problem anymore. Use the features given to you. And when anybody gots problems with gameplay, ask for help and dont post "This or that is broken"

I hope my words seems not too rude or something

 

[DGuller]

I cannot understand the complains about 1.03 economy

1. Prussia is definetly not an easy Nation and perhaps not for average players. It seems to me that not everybody realizes that. Try at first an easier Nation and come back to Prussia later with more experience.

2. Your own personell SP economic sweet-spot is since 1.03 only a few mouseklicks away. Change Input, Output, Prices what ever you want and need to have fun while playing. If you want you can simulate the same economie like 1.01. And money will be no problem anymore. Use the features given to you. And when anybody gots problems with gameplay, ask for help and dont post "This or that is broken"

I hope my words seems not too rude or something

The problem is not in text files, the problem is hard-coded. Sure, you can make the beginning of the game easier through text files, but then the middle and end game are going to be an even bigger cakewalk than it is now. This is actually the opposite of a sweet spot, you can't have a sweetspot at all in this system. The fix is easy, railroad effect should be altered.

 

[unmerged(19825)]

I cannot understand the complains about 1.03 economy

1. Prussia is definetly not an easy Nation and perhaps not for average players. It seems to me that not everybody realizes that. Try at first an easier Nation and come back to Prussia later with more experience.


No sir you are not too rude not at all
I am not average player I have played strategy games since C-64 and it's not about hard level, you didn't understand my point, huh...
And I don't want to play other nation, I want to play Prussia to the end as my first game.
Game is trying to put many history facts in the game - so where is simulating a war credits that French took on 15th July 1870 when Gramont and Ollibier were adressing the Senate and Corps Legislatif :rofl:

Obviously you don't realize what Paradox is trying to do in their games...

First - for me design error is making running a state pain in the ass and job of a clerk who workd in the Excel. It was not so easy to go bancrupt in the reality and in the game ephasis was put on economy. In reality Prussia had 4 railroad tracks to make transfer of 462000 soldiers to the border for opening the campaign against France.

In 18 DAYS through barracks of Prussia, North German and South German states passed 1183000 soldiers!

Now, simulate this in a game - if you didn't make excel game right, you cannot do this because you would go broke, you would be in crazy debts, you would have no manpower or some stuff to make army etc...

So make game fun, not try to mimic history if you cannot do it. Yes, it is great that Paradox is at least trying but game shoul be fun from the beginning.



2. Your own personell SP economic sweet-spot is since 1.03 only a few mouseklicks away. Change Input, Output, Prices what ever you want and need to have fun while playing. If you want you can simulate the same economie like 1.01. And money will be no problem anymore. Use the features given to you. And when anybody gots problems with gameplay, ask for help and dont post "This or that is broken"

I hope my words seems not too rude or something

2. I don't know how to this, nor I am into editing stuff... If someone could make 1.01 simplicity with 1.03 that would be great...

 

[unmerged(23687)]

2. I don't know how to this, nor I am into editing stuff... If someone could make 1.01 simplicity with 1.03 that would be great...

Its quite easy to make changes look into your C:....\Victoria\db\economy Folder. There are the Files for Input, Output, Basic Prices, POP needings etc.

The Files are selfexplaining. Feel free to experiment with them. And make a backup from the original data.

 

[unmerged(19825)]

Its quite easy to make changes look into your C:....\Victoria\db\economy Folder. There are the Files for Input, Output, Basic Prices, POP needings etc.

The Files are selfexplaining. Feel free to experiment with them. And make a backup from the original data.

Could try this... Thanks!

Garrr

 

[Fawr]

Its quite easy to make changes look into your C:....\Victoria\db\economy Folder. There are the Files for Input, Output, Basic Prices, POP needings etc.

The main change from 1.01 to 1.02 economy is in the factory-efficiency.txt. The numbers here used to be hidden, and used to be bigger (x2 or x5? I've forgotten). If you want a 1.01 style game then increase these numbers (try x2 first, and see what its like).

Frankly I think that these numbers should be automatically increase by some factor for the player only when an easy difficulty level is chosen. The different difficulty levels don't have enough economic differentiation.

 

[Dinsdale]

HURAH

I've had to fight Austria and France at the same time, IIRC I had 100.000 regular army and 1.000.000 reservist army,

I defeated Austria fairly easy and then had to hold of France,

Be smart = get alliance with UK and military acces trough Belgium,

HURAH

the problem with Prussia becoming Germany is the Russian anger afterwards,

sorry to say, but the Prussia 1.03 game I played this weekend was my best Victoria exp. until now,

HURAH

I haven't had time to play this weekend, so I make no comment about the game. However, I would hope that you can see military access as cheesy.

I would have hoped that this, like tech-sales-fuels-my-world would be stamped out, but alas.....

Picture France allowing German troops to transit through Belgium and not doing anything about it

If a neighbour is at war and a nation allows access to that neighbour's enemy, than the choice of cancelling access or being forced into war should be presented to that nation.

If the game still relies on gamey tactics like this, then it might still not be balanced correctly.

 

[unmerged(17126)]

I also feel that 1.03 improves things a lot. The more general problem is to
my view not that 'the game was killed' or sth, it is from the start designed in a way many
people who played EUI/II/HOI to a certain extent dislike because of the extreme micromanagement.
Unlike any other game I'm aware of Vic combines strategic decisions/diplomacy
on the one hand as well as core factory level management. This is a critical decision as the right "mix" is missing a bit. People who (including me) love the idea of having a multii-complex advanced 'Risk' are annoyed by the fact that
economy cannot be left alone for a least a while once it _looks_ stable and
working - in order to able to concentrate on the really important things.
But all this was intended by Paradox, so it's a question of meeting expectations and no evidence about the quality of the game itself.
I'd buy the game again but I still prefer the EU2 mixture.

 

[Alex_pharaoh]

Ok, I believe there are 3 things I don't like about 1.03:

1) Prussia is harder then logic can accept.

2) It makes no scence that a Steamer costs less then Machinery parts. A whole metal ship costs less then some parts that make a medium sized machine?!

3) Point #2 is making things extremely hard for players in newly independant countries of Latin America, to a point it is no fun to play those nations.

I believe we must back down and allow us to create better possibilities to make the game better for all of us, instead of changing things that shouldn't be changed, like absolutely the base price of the Machinery parts.

 

[Duuk]

Machine Parts either needs to come down in price...

or not be required for early stage factories.

Would not requiring them until later in the game help?

 

[Aetius]

Reduce the price of Machine Parts and the UK will not make a profit on them. The price is still too low IMO

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Ok, I believe there are 3 things I don't like about 1.03:

1) Prussia is harder then logic can accept.

It is a bit odd, to be honest, to hear these complaints from some about Prussia being too hard, while on the other hand there are just as many, if not more, who say that Prussia is not too hard at all. My suspicion is that the difficulties are due to a question of how one plays Prussia, as opposed to a fundamental problem with how Prussia is set up.

2) It makes no scence that a Steamer costs less then Machinery parts. A whole metal ship costs less then some parts that make a medium sized machine?!

3) Point #2 is making things extremely hard for players in newly independant countries of Latin America, to a point it is no fun to play those nations.

Actually, IMHO, this makes quite a bit of sense, as machine parts are the vital underpinnings of the Industrial Revolution. Yes, it does make things a bit hard on non-industrial powers, but historically they were quite a far ways behind the curve. How long were you playing the Latin American countries without being able to get any machine parts? Also, you can get machine parts via techs & inventions, which can help kickstart the economy.

 

[Aetius]

Another thing that can be said about Prussia:
The AI usually does quite well with Prussia, so given the poor quality of the AI in the game it should be easy

 

[Olaf the Unsure]

It should be hard to play a minor power in this game. Unlike the period covered by EU, the gap between the handfull of industrial powers and everyone else was quite pronounced by the Victorian era. The playing field was much more level in 1450 than in 1850. Design changes that make it easier to play minors pose the risk of completely unbalancing the game from the perspective of the the first and second-tier powers. Playing as a minor should be fun - I've had a couple of very enjoyable games as Texas - but the challenges for such a nation should be considerably greater and the expectations correspondingly less. Paradox has to achieve a fine balance here, and I think they're doing a pretty good job so far.

 

[DukeWilleo1630]

Its quite easy to make changes look into your C:....\Victoria\db\economy Folder. There are the Files for Input, Output, Basic Prices, POP needings etc.

The Files are selfexplaining. Feel free to experiment with them. And make a backup from the original data.

But the point is, why the hech do I have to go into the game and edit it myself to make it playable? They should have made it playable in the first place.